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Has anyone encountered situations where a dry sprinkler system had incorrect repairs or installations, but still passed inspection because NFPA 25 allows portions of the inspection to be done from ground level—even though the piping is actually located in an attic?
Is this actually acceptable under NFPA 25? What recourse did you have? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Would you consider this (Easy Up canopy) an obstruction that can be written up during an NFPA 25 annual inspection? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  In a 3-story building with 3 standpipes, one of which is a combination standpipe/riser, and the standpipes are manual wet, with 50 psi.
On a 5-year test, how do I flow 1000 gpm (no pump) at 100 psi? Do I involve the fire department? The old hydraulic plates showed 70-50 at 260 flow. Three years later, they are showing 50-40 at 320 flow. So I cannot pass this, even though the water supply has diminished. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does anyone have experience with bench testing pressure-reducing FHV's?
We have horizontal corridors in a hospital, and having a fire hose and flow noise/water in certain areas is not an option. NFPA 25 2020 Edition, A.13.5.2.2 allows bench testing (i.e. remove the FHV, take it outside to conduct the 5-year test). Has anyone performed this? What is the procedure, and did the AHJ find it acceptable? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When a new fire pump controller is installed or replaced, is an acceptance test required?
I suppose I know the answer, but I am looking for a code basis. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In sub-grade parking garages, with PRV fire hose valves/floor controls - for testing purposes, would you connect a PRV fire hose valve to the express drain via hose and pump vertically to get to the exterior grade to discharge? Are there any issues with this method during testing to consider? PRV floor control would be hard piped to the express drain and utilize the same pathway to the exterior. Then at the bottom of the express drain has a ball valve, acting as an auxiliary drain only. It can discharge to a gravity drain system, whether storm or sanitary, whatever your local AHJ permits. Or is everyone trying to discharge into a gravity drain at the bottom of the stairs and hoping to not flood anything? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  NFPA 25 (2020) notes that standard response sprinklers are to be tested or replaced after 50 years in service, and quick response sprinklers after 20 years in service.
An issue arose regarding standard response 5mm glass bulb recess sprinklers installed / manufactured in 1990. The heads are RASCO Model F156. The data sheets note standard response. My understanding is that these sprinklers, being standard response, should have a 15-year service life before testing. Others in the trade have different opinions (including a manufacturer rep) due to the operating element being a glass bulb. Prior to contacting the manufacturer, I'd appreciate the forum's thoughts on whether the glass bulb or the fusible link is a determining factor in the required time for sprinkler testing. Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do you dispose of foam after the test (non-fluorinated)?
No one seems to know what to do with it. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This is a backflow preventer retrofit project where I'm trying to figure out what the system's original design criteria was.
I am working with an existing 7,300 sf warehouse area within a larger building, which includes offices and a workshop. It is a marine operation, and the products stored are primarily spare boat parts, propellers, shafts, brackets, housings... large metal objects stored in wood crates or cardboard boxes. I have determined this to be Class II Commodities, stored no higher than 20'. I am thinking that, based on NFPA 13-2019, Table 21.4.1.2 and Figure 21.4.1.2(b) curve B, I need a density of 0.3725 gpm/sf over a 2,000 sf area. I would also be required to have a maximum protection area of 100 sf based on Table 10.2.4.2.1(d). Here's where it gets tricky - the branches are spaced roughly 15' apart, and heads are spaced 8' or more along the branch line. Some are as far apart as 11'-6". The heads are K8.0 solder-type. Because of the K-rating, this shouldn't be a pipe schedule system. Is anyone aware of an alternative storage protection method that this system may be designed to? The installation date is 1986. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I do not know what density I should be applying to this area in my calculations. Thank you very much! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can one type of CPVC (FlameGuard) be connected to an existing but different CPVC manufacturer (BlazeMaster), or vice versa?
Are the solvent cements compatible? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Looking for education on the cause of major sprinkler corrosion in a warehouse. A general warehouse with ESFR heads has a serious corrosion problem on approximately 600 sprinklers, with two inadvertent actuations occurring in the past 6 months. The image is of the worst corroded sprinkler. Others are more lightly corroded, each with a green hue. The actuated heads were sent to UL for evaluation as well as non-fused corroded heads. Tests indicated the heads functioned within normal range, with one head slightly delayed. The manufacturer confirmed the heads are not counterfeit.  The conditions within the warehouse were unique for approximately 7 years, with very high internal temperatures occurring during the winter months, using once-through heating to ensure forklift exhaust CO ppm levels were kept low.
In addition to elevated temperatures, the warehouse received insect fogging applications as normal practice for stored seed and beans. Fogging has also occurred at other similar warehouses, and no problems have been observed at those locations. Corrosion is on approximately 15% of all sprinklers in the warehouse building area. Are there similar experiences with corrosion that is similar to the image? If so, what was determined to be the primary cause? Heat, chemical, or something else? All of the corroded sprinklers were replaced with new heads and NFPA guidance was observed for temperature selection near forced air heaters. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Recently we encountered a system where the floor control valve assemblies (FCVAs) have pressure reducing valves (PRVs) that are due for their 5-year full-flow testing. Typically, we would conduct this through a hose valve downstream of the PRV (hooked up to the Drain Riser), but this arrangement does not allow for that. The only means of connecting the FCVA to the Drain Riser would be to shut down the floor, remove the grooved coupling & cap from this tee (clouded in the image below), and then hook up a connection to the Drain Riser. Then, another shutdown would be needed to replace the coupling & cap to return the system to its current configuration.  When addressing Pressure Reducing Devices, NFPA 13, 2019, 16.9.8.5 states that “Means shall be provided downstream of all pressure reducing valves for flow tests at sprinkler system demand.”
However, according to NFPA 13 2019, 16.14.5.1, a “means shall be provided” for forward testing of the backflow preventer. This “means”, per 16.14.5.1.1, “shall be serviceable without requiring the owner to modify the system.” I am unable to find a similar reference that pertains to Pressure Reducing Devices. Is the capped tee considered “Means” to conduct the testing in this instance, despite requiring 2 shutdowns and “modifications” to the system? Or is a permanently installed valve required to be considered “Means” to conduct the testing? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do I know if these valves are open or closed without using the signage present that says OPEN? Are these non-indicating valves, or am I missing something? Are these even allowed? Thanks in advance.  I found this fitting from a system installed in the 1970s. Everyone I work with and I are unfamiliar with it. Do you recognize it, and does anyone have any technical information available? It looks like a 2" coupling with a threaded head outlet on the other side. It is a push-connect type fitting. Thanks!  We have a condominium (3 story, 18 units), with an original 20-year-old Gast model 2LAF-12-M200X.
Complaint from the unit sharing an adjacent wall to the sprinkler room. The compressor repeatedly turns on and off only during the early morning hours, between 2 and 4 AM. We have monitored and seen nothing but normal activity during the day. Is this possible? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A number of board and care facilities have missing hydraulic placards. It's possible they never had them since the sprinkler system was installed before placards were required.
They are now required, and I wonder if it would be a viable option to survey the system, get pipe diameters and sprinkler counts, and see if they fit within the criteria of the pipe schedule method? If it does, would there be any issues stating so on the hydraulic placard? The board and care facilities range from 3 - 16 bedrooms and no more than 2 stories high. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a customer who is a large production facility with a 12-inch underground fire loop. There are 14 risers, 2 of which are 4 inch, the rest are 6 inch, with 7 fire hydrants tied in around the exterior.
The issue at hand is that they are getting false alarms on random flow switches. The head scratcher is that the water flows all test fine at around 45-50 seconds. Maintenance is saying that the risers where the alarms happened were cold (indicating water flow) and the other risers were room temperature at the time of activation. There is a 12-inch double-check backflow preventer at the water entry point. I'm starting to think about valve tampering, but I am looking for insight I may not have considered. Do you have any tips for what this might be? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe If the fire sprinklers for an entire area or building have to be replaced, such as if they are more than 50 years old, is there any problem or benefit (hydraulically) from increasing the replacement sprinklers to the next higher K-factor (e.g., K5.6 to K8.0 or K8.0 to K11.2), especially for production and storage areas?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Forward Flow Test Confusion... I have an NFPA 13R system built in 2013 that doesn't have any hose connection(s) for forward flow testing. The sprinkler contractor is saying they're unable to conduct the test.
I am attempting to understand the codes around this topic and ran into several questions. First, NFPA 25: 2020 NFPA 25 13.7.2.3 states, "Where connections do not permit verification of the forward flow test at the minimum flow rate of system demand, tests shall be conducted at the maximum flow rate possible." Can someone please explain what this means exactly? My second question concerns using the main drain to conduct the forward flow test if it's sized appropriately. A previous Meyer Fire blog post, "Solutions for the Overlooked Forward Flow Test," Option 4, mentioned the 2016 NFPA 13 A8.16.2.4.2, but I cannot find that section in the 2019 version. Has this method changed somehow? Can the sprinkler contractor use the main drain as a means to conduct the forward flow test? If so, what else does the AHJ need to know? Calcs to prove drain size can flow system demand? Pitot reading? Thank you for reading and I'd love to find some clarity. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In NFPA 25-2017 Chapter 5 addresses "Loaded sprinklers." Of course, this has been a "LOADED" question for years and everybody's interruption of what that is whether or not NFPA gives a decent explanation of it.
My question is, we have a customer that we've performed a sprinkler test by removing an X amount of sprinklers and sending it away to a third party lab for testing which samples came back as a pass - but the question has come up asking if sprinklers remain to be loaded the same if not more over the years. What would be the timeline for re-testing? Would it follow the 10 year re-test? Or 5 Year sprinkler testing that NFPA 25 requires for sprinklers in "hazardous" environment areas? As this plant has over 600 sprinklers and getting up to them and cleaning them every year is not practical, that option is not on the table. See NFPA 25-2017 code for the discussion on it. Thanks for your take. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is an annual sprinkler inspection required for a storage room with a height of less than 12' and a room size totaling 100 square feet with a single sprinkler head installed?
I have been looking in NFPA 13 and 25 but I'm not sure I'm looking in the right direction for this ruling. Please help, thanks! Moderator's Note: So sorry crew, missed the post yesterday so following up with two today. Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is involved in a 5 year inspection/test for a manual wet standpipe?
I see in NFPA 25, 2017 edition that manual wet standpipes are not required to be flow tested or hydrotested when part of the sprinkler system. So my question again is are there any specific requirements for 5 year testing for manual wet standpipes? Thank you all! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is a hydrostatic test required for adding two new sprinklers to an existing system?
For this, assume it can be isolated, and the local jurisdiction refers to NFPA 13 - 2016 Edition. This is the most referenced code outside of the obstruction rule, and is the most common I've seen interpreted differently amongst professionals. Reference Chapter 25, Section 25.2. What is your "threshold" for triggering a hydrostatic test? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Per 5.3.1.1.1.3, NFPA 25, 2014 Edition, states that sprinklers manufactured using fast-response elements that have been in service for 20 years shall be replaced or representative samples shall be tested and then retested at 10-year intervals."
What is the common practice for doing a 20-year sprinkler test sample on a multistory office building built 20 years ago that has undergone numerous tenant renovations, where sprinklers have been replaced and added throughout the years? My thoughts would be that maybe the common areas would have original sprinklers, but what would be the best way to approach this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In NFPA 25 (2013), Table 13.1.1.2 directs us to the Testing requirements for Pressure-Reducing "Hose connections," with a frequency of 5 years.
Does this apply solely to 2.5-inch PRV Hose Valve outlets, or does it include the 1.5-inch PRV Hose Valve outlets on Class II (and Class III) systems as well? Can't seem to find specifics on that. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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