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Have a design criteria question;
I am using Tyco LFII k4.9 sprinklers in a residential renovation for a 20-story highrise. Mostly light hazard, non-combustible building structure. The building does have commercial offices, but the floors being renovated are all completely residential. Based on a design density of 0.10 gpm/sqft, would I need to abide by the 1,500 sqft remote area size for Light Hazard from NFPA 13, or by the product data from Tyco stating the 4 most demanding sprinklers? This is falling under the 2013 Edition of NFPA 13, not NFPA 13R of course. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments
Can an RPDA (reduced pressure detector backflow assembly) failure cause a sprinkler activation?
The street pressure at our project is 140 psi. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a car dealer who is putting on an addition to their service bays, but they said that they will be adding a tire carousel. I had never heard of these.
I don't know any more info yet of what they are buying, but a quick internet search gave me some ideas. I am stuck on how to even deal with or design for this yet. I found one that appears to fit in the space they show and that one is about 7' deep, 20' wide and about 13' high. Any tips on what questions I need to be asking, or how I could go about accommodating these? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There has been a lot of discussion on this post regarding forward flow test connections.
NFPA doesn't address sizing of this connection. The project I'm currently working on is strictly sprinkler with Light and Ordinary Group 1 hazards, with no standpipe connections. The maximum expected flow is 250-300 gallons per minute. The engineer is showing a 2" forward flow test connection piped to an open fitting on an outside wall. I know that fire pump tests are frequently conducted using 1 3/4" nozzles and easily achieve 250 gpm readings. Does it make sense that a 2" connection would be adequate in this instance? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a Type V-A Group R-2 apartment building whose code summary indicates as having four stories atop two levels of basement, all of the same construction and occupancy, and requiring a 13R system type.
I’m no expert in the building code, but it's my understanding that in order to have a building taller than four stories and still use 13R, a 3-hour horizontal assembly would be required having Type I construction below such assembly and up to four stories above; this building looks to be Type V throughout six levels with no horizontal assembly. The large building is vertically separated into four individual buildings by 2-hour fire walls but I see no horizontal separation. Is there a way this proposed 13R sprinkler system can be code compliant (IBC 2015)? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In the base IBC/NFPA 101 are there any requirements for "interview rooms" in buildings that aren't I occupancies or detention centers?
I'm reviewing a building design that has a small police suite with 3 "interview" rooms; the designer said the intent is that each room is capable of holding one detainee who will be chained to the table at and in the company of at least one officer at all times. This doesn't qualify as a Group I occupancy per IBC and NPFA 101 Ch 22 doesn't apply to non-sleeping areas. I feel like there is something I'm overlooking but I'm having trouble finding information. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the difference between Standard Mill and Semi-Mill Construction?
The annex of NFPA 13 lists Standard Mill as an example of unobstructed construction, while Semi-Mill is considered to be obstructed construction. A.3.3.43.1 Obstructed Construction (5) Semi-Mill Construction. The term semi-mill construction as used in this standard refers to a modified standard mill construction, where greater column spacing is used and beams rest on girders. A.3.3.43.2 Unobstructed Construction. (4) Standard Mill Construction. The term standard mill construction as used in this standard refers to heavy timber construction as defined in NFPA 220. Semi-Mill in NFPA 13 is only defined as a modified standard mill construction where greater column spacing is used and beams rest on girders. The description of Standard Mill refers to heavy timber construction as defined in NFPA 220. NFPA 220 has nominal dimensions for structural members and other details, but that's it. How should I know when something is Standard Mill or Semi-Mill under NFPA 13? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do solar panels on a roof level of a parking garage require sprinkler protection?
The parking garage is six-level open air garage, and the roof level (the sixth level) is used for parking. Solar panels would cover 30% of the roof level and may potentially in future cover the entire roof. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a two-zone fire sprinkler system, one is wet, the other is dry-pipe. There are no inside hose valves, just a small NFPA 13 building.
Does the fire pump size need to accommodate hose allowances? The sprinkler calculations have no inside hose allowance. We would typically apply the hose allowance at the city tap, which would be upstream of the fire pump. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Why do laminar flows typically have higher frictional factors (Moody Chart) than turbulent flows?
I understand that the head loss is ultimately bigger in turbulent flows but would it not be expected that turbulent flows would experience a larger loss due to friction (and hence, a larger frictional factor)? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When is a sleeve required (or not required) at the base of a sprinkler riser when it comes through a floor?
Is there a requirement I'm missing in NFPA 13, NFPA 24, or the plumbing code? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm hoping someone might be able to provide a little direction on the requirements of NFPA 13 2016 Section 23.4.4.8.1 (4) for hydraulic calculations.
We typically use 2"x2"x2 1/2" Vic IR Bullhead Tee directly on the welded grooved outlet. Per NFPA we should be including these fittings on the branch line, but we have always included the tee fitting on the 2 1/2" riser nipple because inside diameters are not typical to a 2" tee. We have been doing this for the longest time and recently received corrections from the local AHJ. Victaulic does not specify the frictional resistance - equivalent length of the NO. 104 Bullhead Tee fitting on the branch line. Have you come across this before, or any suggestions? I tried to create a new fitting type in HydraCalc, but was having trouble. Also, might be pointless since there is no data for this on Victaulic's cut sheets. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe If NFPA 75 isn't an explicitly adopted code by the AHJ or not referenced by any of the other applicable codes is smoke detection required in a raised floor area?
NFPA 72 provides location guidance but other than that I can't find in NFPA 101/IBC where smoke detection would be required in the raise floor space. Not every jurisdiction/client adopts NFPA 75, I'm unsure what other code or standard would require below floor smoke detection. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there an established method to "prove" that we have enough fire flow for a project site?
I understand that the premise is to be sure we have the correct water supply available at the site. We do. I'm just interested in the technical 'design' portion to validate that concept. Typically, I run a hydrant flow test at the site with nearby available hydrants. In this case, we're adding new hydrants but I understand the water supply nearby with recent testing. Is a hydraulic graph (N^1.85) showing the available water supply at 20 psi sufficient to "prove" fire flow, or should I be conducting some type of calculation where I'm "flowing" hydrants? We do sprinkler calculations all the time, but I'm just curious if I'm either overcomplicating things or if there's a process for fire flow that I'm not yet doing which I should be. Trying to get things right. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a series of highrise buildings where an NFPA 13 sprinkler system and a wet standpipe system (NFPA 14) are to be installed.
If the sprinkler and the standpipe systems are supplied by a common fire pump, and horizontal supply pipe, but have separate vertical risers, will the system be considered a combined system? Will the subsection of NFPA 14 (2019 Edition) section 7.10.1.3.1.1 apply? 7.10.1.3.1.1 In a building protected in accordance with NFPA 13 or NFPA 13R, the water supply for the combined sprinkler and automatic standpipe system shall be based on the sprinkler system demand (including any hose stream demand) or the standpipe demand, whichever is greater. The buildings are fully-sprinklered, and the proposed fire pump is rated at 1,000 gpm. There is a water storage tank of 30,000 gallons. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When performing hydraulic calculations, do I need to account for the length of the barrel of a dry sprinkler?
The sprinkler itself starts at the threads, but the length can sometimes be quite long before water hits the orifice of the sprinkler. Under NFPA 13, under friction loss, the closest I can find says "friction loss shall be excluded for the fitting directly connected to the sprinkler." Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can anyone point me in the right direction for codes pertaining to the construction of a draft curtain?
My client will be installing them as part of an attic design, where draft curtains are required per the sprinkler listing. The sprinkler data sheet covers the depth requirement of the draft curtain. From browsing some websites I can gather they can be constructed of fire-resistant fiberglass woven textiles, glass (smoke baffles), or even panels of sheet metal. Does NFPA or the IBC define how they are to be constructed? My client will most likely use sheet metal. I'm curious if there is a gauge requirement for the metal. I may be overthinking it, but I like to see the code defining the curtain requirement, to avoid the contractor putting the wrong materials in place. I appreciate any help that anyone can provide. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are trying to complete system testing for a closed-loop system and a waterflow alarm is not reporting back to the fire alarm panel.
Is there a good sequence of operations for a closed-loop system? More specifically, what order of events needs to happen when a sprinkler activates? Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an NFPA 13 system with portable stackable racks.
These are 8-ft tall, made of steel tubing and solid wood floors (which carry window and door products). Should this be considered solid-shelf rack storage, or solid-piled storage? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What are you all seeing or specifying for firestop identification labels?
Masterspec calls for metal or plastic labels. I found an FCIA (Firestop Contractors International Association) article that speaks to stamped metal tags or ceramic fiber tags (Google is failing on what that actually would look like). It seems the firestop manufacturers all have stickers. I have always specified the metal or plastic labels using the Masterspec language. If I get anything at all installed, it is the manufacturer stickers. I have concerns about the longevity of the stickers. I’m curious what others are calling for, what your AHJs or clients ask for, and what is actually getting installed. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Will there ever be a single-station photoelectric smoke detector with a low-frequency sounder base for hotel and apartment buildings?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Thanks to everyone for another great month here on the Forum! Here's our top contributors from April 2022:
I have a laboratory space which original had an open ceiling. The renovated space plans to provide a screen, similar to a window insect screen across the open ceiling, which will contain lizards which they are working with.
Is this screen considered an obstruction to the sprinklers above? The screen would be located approximately 3-feet below the main ceiling at 8'-0" above the floor. Although water would pass through, it seems that it would significantly disrupt the distribution pattern from the sprinklers. This also does not seem to meet the requirements for an open-grid ceiling. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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