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Does anyone have experience with auditory testing booths?
We have a 6-ft x6-ft audiology testing booth with a fully enclosed ceiling. It is about 7-ft tall and has been installed in a school for over seven years. Recently on an inspection, it was noted that it was required to have a sprinkler. I have dug through the code and can't see where it would not be required. The only thing I found was in IBC 903.3.1.1.2 that it is "A room or space where sprinklers are considered undesirable because of the nature of the contents, where approved by the fire code official." In that case, it looks like we could add a smoke detector in there if it was approved by the code official. They are very similar to office pods or even walk-in coolers and they are required in those situations. Because of the nature of the booth, I'm getting a lot of pushback from the users of the booth. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
18 Comments
I have found in a gas turbine power plant a long run of a 24" pipe supplying water-based fire protection systems supported via cradled non-guided supports, welded to the bottom of the pipe itself. The shoe base plates are placed on support beams, without any slide assemblies in between.
I normally use to design the European code EN 12845, where you can read "supports shall completely surround the pipe and shall not be welded to the pipe or fittings". Is this permitted in NFPA 13 environments? I would be glad if you could share your thoughts about this, thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project where the tenant intends to store Class I to Class III commodities that have a typical footprint of 12’ x 3.5’ (42 SF) on open-wire mesh racking.
Between the Definition 3.3.172 (NFPA 13-2019) Rack Shelf Area which specifically calls out “by the placement of loads” and the definition “Open Rack” (3.3.140) it appears that this condition has to be viewed an Solid Rack and would require In-Rack sprinklers no matter what roof level system (CMDA, ESFR, K-25) is installed or the Commodity Class stored. I know there are some special designs related to “big box retail” stores (Mercantile) for this, but our application is Warehouse (Storage). There are also additional conditions if the footprint is greater than 64 SF. Is there a way to read the above definitions that would not require in-rack sprinklers when Loads with a footprint over 20 SF and less than 64 SF are placed on otherwise Open Rack? Requiring in-rack sprinklers is a potentially major expense for an owner with 75+ operable facilities like this. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are on a project where they are installing these vertical storage carousels and will be storing miscellaneous vehicle parts and tires. I don't see anything within NFPA 13 specifically mentioning this equipment, so the current plan of action is to treat this equipment as multi-row racking. Since it is not practical to provide in-rack sprinklers for this equipment due to the moving parts, we are planning on protecting this equipment with ESFR sprinklers.
Does this ESFR approach seem appropriate? Is there any information that I am not considering? This is something that is new to me so any input will be greatly appreciated. https://www.storevertical.com/products/vertical-storage-system/tire-carousel https://www.storevertical.com/products/vertical-storage-system/shelving-carousel Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe At a tire store we currently have 25.2K ESFR at the roof, and they have some open grated flooring down at about 10-ft above finished floor where their tire areas are. We are currently protecting the areas that are wider than 4ft.
There are some other runs that are just under 4-ft wide and the AHJ is saying we need to protect those. They're 86% open grates, deeper than 1/4". I'm fine with adding the heads under these, however the AHJ is stating that we must protect below them with ESFR's instead of an intermediate level/rack style sprinkler. I've never seen this approach in 20 years nor can find any justification in the code to support this. The AHJs comments suggest the water shields are necessary to prevent cold soldering from ESFR sprinklers above. Is there a code basis to use intermediate level/rack style sprinklers under obstructions with ESFR at the deck? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 20 Section 4.15.5.1 (2016 Edition) requires a listed OS&Y gate valve to be installed in the suction pipe, but the annex of NFPA 20 suggests it should be as far as practical from the pump suction.
Would a control valve (OS&Y) on the backflow preventer meet this control valve requirement of Section 4.15.5.1? Assuming a city water supply, the backflow preventer control valve is listed for fire protection, there is still a valve'd bypass connected between the backflow preventer and pump suction, and the backflow is located a minimum of 10-pipe diameters from the suction flange. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project where the consultant is wanting to use a previously-installed 10-story building tank and fire pump to supply a new 14-story building up to its 6th floor, then add a booster pump to carry water to the upper floors.
Is this even acceptable by code? The new 14-story will be built next to the existing 10-story building. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 72, 2016 Edition uses the phrase "2-hour fire-rated construction" in a few places; what does this refer to?
It's confusing to me since a variety of elements within the building could be 2-hour rated. For example, NFPA 72-2016 Section 24.3.13.7 states: "Two-way in-building wired emergency communication systems shall have a pathway survivability of Level 2 or Level 3. Exception: Level 1 shall be permitted where the building is less than 2-hour fire-rated construction." Buildings are not designated with a fire-rating, elements are. How do you interpret this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a fully-sprinklered building which also has 1-1/2" hose stations.
Are the hydraulic calculations required to include the hose stream (65 psi and flow) in addition to the sprinkler system, or can it be a separate calculation entirely (like standpipes)? Thanks for all responses. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a school theater project where there are three catwalks (each 3'-9" wide) above the seating area that have cloud ceilings that completely cover the bottom of the catwalk. The ceilings are within 6" below the bottom of the catwalk.
There is ceiling level sprinkler protection and sprinklers dropped into the clouds. I do not think that a line of sprinklers is needed in between the bottom of the catwalk and top of the cloud. The A/E is saying that three levels of sprinkler protection is required in this situation (ceiling, catwalk, & clouds). Is sprinkler protection required between the catwalk and ceiling below? Any help either way, for or against adding the extra line would be great. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the difference between a K17 (CMDA upright) and Ultra K17 (CMSA) sprinkler?
When I look for the technical data sheet, I don't see any specific difference except the color of the cover of these Tyco sprinklers (bronze for CMDA and Chrome for CMSA). Does anyone know if these sprinklers are the same, except the fact that they work at different pressures? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do large LED screens in auditorium/lecture hall setting need to achieve particular flame spread/smoke development performance?
Are these considered part of the wall interior finish? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an 83,000 sqft total (3-story) Type II-B new construction building under the International Fire Code. Under IFC Table B105.1(2) I get a straight-table Fire Flow of 6,000 gpm at 4 hours.  However, IFC Table B105.2 allows buildings with automatic sprinkler systems to have a "Minimum Fire Flow" of "25% of the value in Table B105.1(2)", and a "Flow Duration" of the "Duration in Table B105.1(2) at the reduced flow rate".  With a sprinkler system, the Fire Flow becomes 1,500 gpm (= 6,000 gpm x 25%), that's pretty straight forward.
However, is the Flow Duration straight from the original reading of Table B105.1(2) (which is 4-hours) or is the duration taken from Table B105.1(2) at the new reduced Fire Flow Rate (lookup 1,500 gpm to get 2-hour duration)? In short, is a 83,000 sqft Type II-B building Fire Flow actually 1,500 gpm at 4-hours, or 1,500 gpm at 2-hours? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 20 5.6.2 requires a fully-independent and automatic back up pump for very tall buildings. This project is just under 50 stories with a pump and back up several levels below grade serving the lower zones and another pump and back up several levels above grade serving the remaining zones.
The project’s electrician cannot meet the power requirements for the worst case scenario, which would be all (4) pumps operating at once (if the primaries are running, but not at full capacity). The request is to interlock the primary and back up on the respective level, so only one pump is running on the level at a time (for a max total of two pumps running in the whole building). Would interlocking the pumps on their respective levels still satisfy the requirements of NFPA 20 5.6.2 (copied below)? NFPA 20 5.6.2 Fire Pump Backup. Fire pumps serving zones that are partially or wholly beyond the pumping capability of the fire department apparatus shall be provided with one of the following:
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a F-1 occupancy used for powder coating lines for RV chassis, fully-sprinklered except for the equipment (booths). Inside of this facility there are large powder coating, ovens and media blasting booths that the chassis run through on a track. Each booth is about 18’ x 30’.
Would the media blasting booths require fire protection? The customer does not want to install FP for the media blasting in fear of an accidental discharge that would stop most RV production for the entire country. My thought is the blasting booths along with the powder coating would require FP due to size and I cannot find any exceptions except for the ovens per IFC, class A&B ovens not used for combustible products. Any thoughts? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe While working in a MEP/FP firm, we are expanding to do projects in other states and learning to understand the different state requirements for Fire Protection / Fire Alarm.
What is the best way to go about obtaining each state's requirements for what is required in an upfront submittal? For example some states accept design drawings that only require denoting the hazard level whereas other require full design, calculations, and a written narrative. I understand and agree providing more detail is typically better; however, budgets can be significantly affected (negatively/positively) if only a hazard classification is required compared to a full design. Besides prior knowledge from working in a different state or jurisdiction, what is the best approach in determining what is required? Typically I start with searching what is required from the building code, but that does not always tell you what you need to submit for drawings, permit documentation, etc. It would be great to have a website that gives an example of what is an acceptable layout/design for each state. Hoping to hear any suggestions / methods that others use to determine what is required. Moderator Note: If there is significant interest in this topic, we'd be happy to open up a survey for areas that do require "full design" as an upfront submittal. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Curious if others interpret the obstructed construction rule the same way I do.
I've seen and heard quite a bit of dispute on how Obstructed Construction should be applied to solid beams with corrugated metal deck above (when applied perpendicular to the beams in question). So the definition of obstructed construction is really defined by applying what unobstructed construction isn't. In summary, obstructed construction is solid members (or members less than 70% open) that are spaced less than 7-1/2 on center. That would lead you to believe that openings of 29.99% are permitted as long as members are less than 7-1/2' on center. If you go to the appendix, it offers a LOT more information on types of obstructed construction, one of those being panel construction. There it mentions that (pockets) 300 sqft or less can also be obstructed construction, even with members more than 7-1/2' on center, as long as NO openings are allowed, including at the beam to ceiling interface. I take this opening rule as only applying to when the 300 sqft exception is being used and where beams are more than 7-1/2' on center. Is this how you interpret this section? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm designing the fire suppression system for a 6-story wood frame residential building. There will be 6-ft wide balconies made of non- and limited-combustible materials. Normally that would mean sprinklers under the balconies could be omitted, but it occurred to me that people will likely have BBQs and the accompanying propane tank on their balconies.
Would this count as "combustible storage" and thus require sprinklers (dry sidewall heads), or can they still be omitted? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I always seem to miss listing a pressure gauge on a project. Are any required above what I have in my checklist below?
Sprinkler:
Standpipe
Pumps
Moderator note: thanks in advance for feedback, we're developing a cheatsheet on this topic in the near future Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a multi-story building under a single owner. It consists of a first floor 25,000 sqft area and a second floor, also of 25,000 sqft in area which has a high barrel roof, about 40 ft above the floor.
This second level is unique in that a portion of its area has two levels of rooms, one stacked on the other. Each level is 10,000 sqft in area. To visualize these, consider the first level being individual meeting/office/bathrooms having ceilings and a structure overtop. The second level is of similar area/occupancy/ceiling and is built on top of this lower structure. The architect actually refers to this second level as a mezzanine. The area above the these rooms is open to the high roof. The building is sprinklered throughout per NFPA 13 (2016). A standpipe is not required per IBC 905.3.1. My position is that the building can be protected as a single zone without floor control valves as it is two stories in height plus a mezzanine under the control of a single owner. Further, the two levels of rooms at Floor 2 are referred in A.8.2.4.1 which gives guidance that 8.2.4.1 is not intending to require floor control valves on small buildings under the supervision of a single owner. Reference NFPA 13 (2016) 8.2.4.1, A.8.2.4.1, 8.2.1, 8.2.2. Strictly per the standard, are floor control valves required for each level of this building? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A special thank you to the top contributors for this past month!
Late thank-you but not unappreciated - thanks for all comments & especially the Top Contributors for March 2021 -
When you have a common office building that is classified as a Light Hazard but you have some rooms that may be Ordinary Hazard such as storage rooms and others.
When you have your layout and one or more of these rooms ends up in your design area, how do you proceed in the calculation? 1.- Do you calculate 0.10 gpm/sqft over 1,500 sqft? 2.- Do you calculate according to Chapter 23 Sections 23.4.4.2.4 and 23.4.4.2.5 specifically for that room even if it is one or two sprinklers? 3.- Do you calculate everything with the density and area for the hazard of that room even though everything else is Light Hazard? 4.- Do you calculate 0.10 gpm/sqft over 1,500 sqft and ensure that the sprinklers inside the room discharge at the minimum density for the hazard they have? This may be very general and definitely every project is different but every time I run into this I have this same question. I was told to just calculate everything as a Light Hazard but my curiosity always keeps me thinking about it. Moderator Note: This question is different, but similar to: www.meyerfire.com/daily/ordinary-hazard-within-light-hazard-building Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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