I use the HASS software to design, now I've a criterion of design of 20 ESFR K-25.2 @ 75 PSI, but I'm questioning if the density requirement and area of demand that I'm considering are correct.

The values are 2.18gpm/ 2000 sqft. Is this correct?

Additionally, the pump that I should be considering is approximately 4500 gpm and when I try to run the program it says that the source is incapable of feeding the grid.

​Thank you for help.

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What is the most appropriate Commodity Classification for wood chips (used for grilling) and wood mulch (used for pet bedding)?

The packaging consists of sealed paper bags that are palletized and secured with stretch wrap (plastic film) to stabilize the load onto the pallet. 

My initial thoughts would be a Class III Commodity, but NFPA 13 2019 Table A20.4(b) mentions "wood patterns" as being Class IV.  I'm not certain of the definition of "wood patterns". 

Your input and wisdom is much appreciated.

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​We have a remodel project with XL pipe and push fit fittings.

​When there is a leak in the fit fitting what product or method can be used to change the pipe to schedule 10 with grooved fittings?

Can XL be grooved?

Is a roustabout approved for XL?

There is virtually no information on the internet regarding XL except for notable failures with the material.

Thanks in advance.

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Additional References:

• XL/BLT Galvanized and Black Lightwall Threadable Pipe
• XL/BLT - M-COAT Galvanized and Black Lightwall Threadable Pipe

The 2016 and 2019 standards are allowing ESFR designs that the 2022 standard does not.

For example: A warehouse with a ceiling at 35-ft. Group A Unexpanded Exposed on floor probably to 20-ft.

Sprinkler design is ESFR, (12) K16.8 pendents @ 52 psi. This was okay in 2016 and 2019, but now, 2022 does not allow for this.

Does this mean they completed tests that show this 12@52 K-16.8 WILL NOT work?

Is there fire testing to prove this?

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We have a wet system. Inside the system is a walk-in freezer, which has less than 10-ft of rack storage, Class I-III commodities, protected by dry pendent sprinklers from the wet system. Ceiling height is 11'-9".

Using the chart for Miscellaneous Storage up to 12-ft in Height (Table 13.2.1 of NFPA 13, 2016 Edition), thi is to use the design curve for OH2 on Figure 13.2.1. 

Since the ceiling height is so low, and it's equivalent to an OH2 design curve, there's a request to apply Figure 11.2.3.2.3.1 and reduce the design area within that freezer by 37% and use the smaller hydraulic design area.

However, it's not an Ordinary Hazard area, it's a Miscellaneous storage area that is equivalent to an OH2 curve.

Are you permitted to use the remote area reduction for Miscellaneous Storage here?

Thank you for your time.

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We have an original 17,000 sqft building built during the 1970's which has a masonry deck on OSB boards on steel structure. The original building had a continuous gypsum board ceiling at the bottom of the trusses, and no sprinkler system. Lay-in ACT ceilings have been added over the years and a lot of the gypsum board has been damaged or removed. 

Due to the exposed OSB boards, we've listed the structure as Type V-B. As part of the new project in the building, we will be adding a sprinkler system.

Is there a code-compliant way to avoid sprinkler protection above the ceilings? 

Perhaps a post-factor spray-on fire retardant?

Thank you for your input.

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I recently heard of an incident where the fire water return from a flow meter on a fire pump was connected low from a tank and it did not work appropriately. So as a solution they decided to connect it high on the storage tank a and somehow this configuration fixed the issue.

Both connections would have the same head due to elevation so it does not make sense to me why one would work but not the other.

Why does it matter if you connect a return loop to a fire water storage tank near the top of the tank rather than near the bottom?

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Architect here with a fire code question. We have a fully sprinklered building (ESFR), of Type II-B, tilt concrete construction.

The fire pump room is located on an exterior wall, and the only door into the pump room is from the exterior. We have 1-hr rated construction separating the fire pump room from the rest of the building.

The fire marshal is telling us that the exterior wall and door also have to be rated. I responded by pointing out the fire pump is required to be protected from the surrounding building, and that it does not need to be protected from the exterior, so exterior wall and door should not have to be rated.

Fire marshal disagrees and pointed to NFPA 20 4.14.1.1.2. That section does not specifically state that separation is required from the rest of the building, although Section 4.14.1.1.1 right before it does make that distinction, just like IBC/IFC do.

We have solid concrete walls that are inherently fire rated construction, so typically I would just say ok and label them rated. The issue is we are required to have ventilation in the pump room per NFPA 20, so we have a makeup air louver in the exterior wall. If we rate the wall, then my understanding is we will have to put a fire/smoke damper on that louver, which is added cost and unnecessary in my opinion.

Is your understanding that all walls have to be rated as the fire marshal is saying, or just the walls between pump room and rest of building?

I've done many buildings of this type in multiple states and this is the first time I've been told this. I'd appreciate your insight, thanks.

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I am running 8” and 4” water storage tank fill and suction lines above ground in an exterior utility yard. 

Is lateral and longitudinal bracing required for aboveground piping supported on pipe stands located outside of a building, in an exterior utility yard?

Due to underground conflicts with spread footing foundations the underground piping has to be routed above ground to the final location and connection points on the tank. The pipes are supported by 1’-6” non adjustable pipe stands attached to slab on grade.

This project is located in a seismic zone and the seismic force factor does not exceed 0.5Wᵖ and I am using ACI 355.2 qualified anchors as required by NFPA 13 2016 Edition. Sections 9.3.8, A9.3.8, 9.3.8.1, and 9.3.8.2. The pipe stands I am using are following the NFPA 13 2016 Edition prescriptive method detailed in sections 9.2.6.3.2, 9.2.6.4.2, 9.2.6.4.4.1, and 9.2.6.4.5.1, I’ve also attached a detail for clarification. Thanks in advance!

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If I have a PIV installed, is it required to be tied into a fire sprinkler system?

I work at a campus style facility with a fire water supply loop for fire sprinklers.

We have a couple of buildings that do not have a fire sprinkler system, however, there is a PIV outside the buildings that are in the closed position. I am assuming they were installed for "future use" assuming a fire sprinkler system gets installed.

Is there an NFPA code reference that requires the PIVs to be "in service" or used for their intended purpose, or are we code compliant with them being "for future use"?

I do have a concern with responding fire units incorrectly assuming that there is a fire sprinkler system in these buildings due to the PIVs being installed.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

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I am running into a lot of old systems that do not have hydraulic placard and some of them are old Pipe Schedule system.

Has anyone ran into an old pipe schedule system were the fire marshal is requesting hydraulic placards and if so has anyone found a way to satisfy the requirements without surveying the entire system and running new calculations?

Thanks in advance.

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We have a fire pump room with three 75 HP main pumps that operate sequentially depending on the flow required.

Can we install all 3 controllers within a single enclosure?

If not, what standard, code forbids this?

Thanks in advance.

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My understanding is that sprinklers are not required in a commercial warehouse that was constructed prior to the code requiring them.

So, how would a requirement apply regarding Open Rack Storage and Closed Rack Storage and the requirement for in-rack sprinklers?

This is a large warehouse with no sprinkler system. They are using 2x6's for rack spreaders and completely covering them with no flue space.

Several issues there... what drives the requirements on the storage practices?

Even though the building doesn't require sprinklers, do the code requirements regarding the rack storage apply?​

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Are you required by NFPA 24 to enter a building underneath the foundation, or can you enter a building with the the fire service main from the side of the building?

Many are under the impression that due to the fact all illustrations in NFPA 24 show the fire main entering under the building, footing/foundation, that this suggests that it is a requirement.

Please can someone shed some light on this?

Regards.

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Four-story office building wants to shut down five large air handlers nightly. Purpose is to lower energy costs when building is unoccupied. This will cause all fire/smoke dampers (FSDs) to close (the smoke detectors in return ducts need minimum operational air velocity).

The FSDs are mostly original from 1985-1988. Only UL tested for 5000 cycles and no dynamic.

I cannot find a code reference to prohibit this and believe that the FSDs are already near the end of their functional lifespan. Many have been replaced due to bad actuators, binding jack shafts and missing blades.

Anyone know of a code reference to prohibit this use or when a FSD must be replaced?

Thanks in advance.

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I have two above ground 20,000 gallon (US) PET storage tanks, used for food grade oil, located inside in a manufacturing facility, all above ground.

I went through NFPA 30 back and forth, still couldn't find what sort of sprinkler protection do I need for this.

Cooking oil is considered a Class IIIB liquid, and all references I could were about all other classes, but IIIB. The only reference to IIIB seems to be in smaller containers, in the rack, but no tank storage mentioned.

How do I go about designing protection for the tanks? What about the surrounding area?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Thanks in advance.
​
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Do you include a loss in your flow-through tees (the straight run) on CPVC for NFPA 13R or NFPA 13 Systems?

We're finding a loss through one software provider's default setting, whereas another by default does not include a loss on the flow-through CPVC tees. We'd like to find the correct approach.

Thanks in advance.

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We have a project where window sprinklers are being used as part of a 2-hour Fire Barrier.

The engineer wants the second water source to be enough to run for two hours (that would mean we'd need about 40,000 gallon tanks) in an already-designed building.

Others are arguing that the primary water source needs to meet the listing but the secondary water source can be 30-minutes as that's when the fire department would hook up and operate.

What is the required duration for the secondary water supply?

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Another month - another top ten list - thanks for all of our great discussion this past month!

Does anyone have any code experience with standby generators and NFPA 110, 2022 Edition?

Can the capacity of a generator fuel tank be base on connected load, or connected load demand on the generator, or the rated capacity of the generator?

Most electrical engineers that we deal with for health care occupancies (99%) spec fuel capacity based on the 100% rating of the generator. It appears that if you base the fuel capacity on connected load and you had a connected load of 60% of the rated capacity of your generator and you add additional load to your emergency system of up to 80% and your tank was based on 60% you would have a problem and would require a larger tank.

But if you base your fuel tank capacity on 100% generator capacity you will always have the correct amount of fuel capacity regardless of the load.

Thanks in advance.

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I recently obtained an annual full flow fire pump flow test data via hose monsters and pitotless nozzles to open atmosphere.

I am attempting to develop a graph from scratch in Excel for the fire pump curve or honestly, find one that is already built on line where I can plug in each data point for the Actual results (Churn, 100%, and 150%) and Theoretical/Design (Churn, 100% and 150%).

Does anyone know of such available graphs or advice on steps to develop in Excel (or a different program)?

Thank you in advance.

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On an exterior patio, is there anything in NFPA 13 that allows you to protect from the building to the column only?

Or are we required to protect to the edge of the overhang?

In this case it makes the difference in extended coverage dry sidewalls and a dry system.

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