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All - talk me off the ledge, I have overanalyzed the requirement of dry sidewalls on porches and now I can't sleep until I get this answered:
Initial design of an apartment complex (3 story) called for an NFPA 13 (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system. The apartment complex will be covered in a cementitious siding and trim (non-combustible). Under NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2, sprinklers may be omitted from porches constructed with non-combustible or limited combustible materials in accordance with NFPA 703's requirements concerning non- and limited-combustible materials. The cementitious lap siding and trim exceeds the non-combustible requirements of NFPA 703. The plot thickens - the apartment design was changed to incorporate an NFPA 13R (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system instead of NFPA 13. Under NFPA 13R Section 6.6.5.1 Where a roof or deck is provide above, sprinklers shall be installed to protect attached exterior balconies, attached exterior decks, and ground floor patios serving dwelling units in buildings of Construction Type V. The building construction Type is V-B but the porches are constructed of non-combustible materials - and this configuration/condition is not addressed in NFPA 13R. NFPA 13R Section 6.6.8 "All situations regarding sprinkler location and position that are not directly discussed in NFPA 13R shall be in accordance with NFPA 13. NFPA 13R does not address exterior porches constructed of non-combustible materials - since this situation is not addressed directly in NFPA 13R it is addressed in NFPA 13 which is detailed above (NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2). So based on the above - are sprinklers required on non-combustible porches in NFPA 13R systems? In addition, if sprinklers are required on non-combustible porches in an NFPA 13R system, why would NFPA 13 allow them to be excluded - as NFPA 13 should be the more "conservative" standard? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Is there anything in NFPA 13, 2019 that allows us to use Table 4.3.1.7.1 Discharge Criteria for Miscellaneous Storage Up to 12 ft in Height for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Up to 12 ft in Height?
NFPA 13, 2016 §16.2.1.2 Protection Criteria for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Up to 12 ft in Height sends us to Table 13.2.1 for protection criteria (the same as miscellaneous storage). The 2016-2019 Roadmap provided in NFPA 13, 2019 shows §16.2.1.2 (and the associated sections) as deleted. NFPA 13, 2019 §21.4.1 provides protection criteria for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Over 12 ft Up to and Including 25 ft in Height and §21.4.2 provides protection criteria for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Over 25 ft in Height, but there is no protection criteria provided in NFPA 13, 2019 Chapter 21 for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Up to 12 ft in Height. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am coordinating a flow test with a contractor.
NFPA 291 Section 4.4.6 states "To obtain satisfactory test results of theoretical calculation of expected flows or rated capacities, sufficient discharge should be achieved to cause a drop in pressure at the residual hydrant of at least 10 percent. In water supply systems where additional municipal pumps increase the flow and pressure as additional test hydrants are opened, it might be necessary to declare an artificial drop in the static pressure of 10 percent to create a theoretical water supply curve." The contractor did not achieve the 10% pressure drop and asked if the "artificial pressure drop" option is a possibility here. I do not see anywhere in NFPA 291 or elsewhere explaining how to do this. Any recommendations on what to advise the contractor / how to even calculate the artificial pressure drop? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the correct way to fill a "Hydraulic Design Information sign" when using a "CMSA" approach?
For CMSA we do not have a typical design area and instead we are working for number of sprinklers and minimum pressure. The placards typically call for design area, density, etc. Thanks in advance for the input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What are the requirements for installing a smoke detector above a suspended ceiling?
Is it simply the same spacing rules as if the smoke detector were below the ceiling? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How does NFPA define a "Revamp"?
In NFPA 13 2019, Section 29.5.2 states that "Calculations shall be provided to verify that the system design flow rate will be achieved" when revamping a hydraulically designed system. The problem me and my coworkers are having is that we cant agree on a definition of "Revamp" and NFPA does not seem to define it either. One opinion is that any "modification" constitutes revamping, and so any sort of modification will require calculations. Another opinion is that any sort of new addition to a system or hazard change requires calculations. We have almost always defaulted to just calc it and leave it be, but would love a more defined definition on when calcs are needed. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project using a deluge water spray system under NFPA 15.
We have installed 4 Fire department connections with 5" Storz inlet. Our client is asking us if the number of FDCs installed is sufficient as mentioned in NFPA 15 Section 6.4.3.3. My question is - how do we know that the number of outlets and size of the fire department connection is sufficient? How is that determined? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are sprinklers required for an H-3 Occupancy, retail fireworks (1.4g class) if less than 125lb?
IBC Section 415.1 states only need a automatic sprinkler if in excess of 125lb (25% of net weight of package fireworks). But, in Chapter 10 Table 1006.2.1, regarding means of egress, it says Not Permitted regarding H-3 units with no sprinkler system. Any help here is appreciated. Thank you! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a sprinkler protected facility where we have a corridor that exceeds 50-ft in length.
At the end of the corridor is a door that leads to the apparatus bay. It's not a means of egress leading to an exit (higher hazard on the other side). The required means of egress are at other locations in the facility. Is this considered a dead end corridor under NFPA 101? In all the examples I've found on the topic, the end is truly dead-end with no means of exiting. What's your take on this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I came across a code that is in all NFPA 13's (at least 2013-2022 editions) that says sidewall sprinklers shall not be installed back to back (8.7.3.1.4 in 2016 edition).
When dealing with overhead garage doors with two doors directly adjacent to each other, I've seen two sprinklers installed back to back so often that I would consider it 'industry standard'. Are back to back sidewall sprinklers permissible for adjacent overhead door protection? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an airline opening a training facility in our jurisdiction. The building is fully sprinklered and has a fire alarm.
They wish to install a static airplane fuselage for training airplane cabin personnel. This would be a functioning fuselage with standard airplane doors with ramps. Has anyone had an experience with this? This is a fully sprinklered building so our thinking is the fuselage needs sprinkler coverage inside. Is this correct? This building has a fire alarm system so our thinking is the fuselage needs notification devices. Is this correct? The fuselage doors do not meet the code requirement for egress doors (locks, swing, etc), how is this addressed? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe May fire sprinkler coverage for an NFPA 13 system be omitted from inside an air shower?
Are there any square footage standards that would apply, or any other "exceptions" that would allow omission? This is in a large industrial factory with hazardous materials. The inverse question would be...is sprinkler coverage required inside an air shower? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe The architect proposed to hang perforated metal mesh tiles 8" below the slab above. Multiple vertical fabric baffles are attached to these metal mesh tiles extending up to 14" below the ceiling. Which ceiling criteria should I apply here? It does not meet the requirements of the Open Grid ceiling (NFPA 13-2016, Section 8.15.14). It has only 8" above the ceiling. Also, it does not fall under the criteria of cloud ceiling.  I have proposed uprights above the ceiling to protect the space above the ceiling & the fabric ceiling baffles.
Proposed pendent sprinklers below the ceiling at 12" below the ceiling. I've requested the architect to restrict the depth of fabric baffles to 12" below the ceiling to avoid obstructions. I have doubts on the activation of the pendents located below the ceiling since the ceiling tiles are perforated. Any suggestions on this proposed protection? Should the space between the fabric baffles be considered as ceiling pockets? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm reviewing a submitted set of sprinkler plans for a partial demo and rebuild at an existing sprinklered building with an existing fire pump. They do have an existing backflow that was not included in the hydraulic calcs.
I feel, like with any fixed loss pressure device, that it should be included in the new calcs regardless if it was existing. Am I on point with this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a 6" feed main that will travel through a foundry.
The foundry temperature will get approximately 160 degrees (F). Should that sprinkler pipe need a heat shield to help keep the piping cool? I plan on welding the pipe that travels through the foundry, so no groove products will need to be installed in that environment. Thanks for input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I would like to get your thoughts on the intent of NFPA 409 7.7.3.5 which states "Discharge devices for the protection of columns within the remote area of the overhead sprinkler systems shall be included in the calculations for the overhead system."
When determining the remote area, should it be assumed that the column protection sprinklers are activated? In the specific case that I am referring to, if column sprinklers are not activated, the remote area of the overhead system does not fall around the columns being protected. If the column sprinklers are activated, the remote area of the overhead system shifts to fall around the columns being protected. My thought is that column protection sprinklers should be assumed to be activated when determining the remote area of the overhead system since a fire condition near the column has the potential to activate the column protection sprinklers and the remote area of the overhead system. If the column protection sprinklers is not included in determination of remote area, this fire condition could cause the system demand to exceed the available supply. What are your thoughts? Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm looking at a building that is a convent home (residential) but has a chapel, bedrooms, dining room, kitchen area and a few mechanical support spaces.
I would think the building would be classified as light hazard because that is what a majority of the building is. But some could argue that some of these spaces are Ordinary Hazard 1. Should the tank be sized on the Ordinary Hazard 1 demand or the Light Hazard demand? Thanks for you help, Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project where the owner just wants to manually turn a switch to transfer from main power to backup power for a fire pump instead of having an Automatic Transfer Switch.
Wouldn't this be considered manual activation under NFPA 20, and not be allowed? I would think this arrangement isn't allowed because that's not automatic transfer. Thanks in advance for your input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Per NFPA 25 there needs to be a hydrostatic test of fire department connection pipe every 5 years. It does specify pipe material that are exempt (CPVC).
Should I recommend a hydrostatic test of the 2-inch FDC feed if the pipe is walled in and connected to the CPVCc before and after the check valve? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Thanks to everyone here for the great threads; here are the Top Contributors for May 2024:
NFPA 13R Section 9.3.1 talks about accounting for domestic flow "unless provisions are made to prevent the domestic waterflow on sprinkler system activation."
We have a low-rise apartment building that is four stories tall, under NFPA 13R. The sprinkler system can be supplied via a 6-inch service from a nearby main, but when domestic (2" or 2 1/2") is added it would require an expensive run to a remote main and an 8-inch service. The MEP engineers are sort of shrugging at questions and would love to be paid to entirely re-design the system unless we tell them what to do/use. I don't know the correct terminology to find the elements of a system that would cut off the domestic tap when the fire system activates. What is that called in the trade? Am I correct in understanding that the sprinkler system has a flow sensor that activates when a sprinkler flows water, and this would then trigger alarms and as part of that, do something like activate a solenoid valve cutting off the domestic tap? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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