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We have a non-conforming fraternity building that wants to build a new two-story covered entrance canopy that ties into the existing roof. It is a heavy timber construction and has no concealed spaces. The fire area is already too large, so our interpretation is this would trigger a sprinkler system in the whole building.
A more lenient interpretation might be to only sprinkler the new portion, and potentially add some rated separation between the existing non-sprinklered building and the new sprinklered entry canopy, but I am not aware and I can't find anything about separation between sprinklered and unsprinklered portions of a building. Would this arrangement be permissible by code? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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High-rise office building, predominantly light hazard occupancy. Water supply is designed for a 30 minute duration (roof mounted gravity water storage tanks).
We need a 1-hour separation between two tenant spaces. The architect has specified a glass partition. As such closely spaced heads are being proposed to achieve an equivalent rating. Does the water supply now need to be upgraded to provide a 1 hour supply of water? Similarly, if sprinklers are being used to provide an equivalency rating on a required 2-hour rated partition, does the water supply need to be able to supply 2-hours of demand? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are converting a 3 story condo building (was designed to NFPA 13R) to a hotel. The ground floor will have a restaurant, a bar, and a spa. The upper floors will remain residential.
Will the addition of these new occupancies change the whole design of the building? Will the upper level residential units be required to be designed to NFPA 13 standards? This building is in Bermuda if that helps. Thank you in advance for your help! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A small core area of a two-story office building has two stairs. One is a traditional enclosed exit stair fire-rated at 1-hour. The other stair is intended to be an "open access stair". The project is under NFPA 101 for means of egress and is sprinkler protected under NFPA 13.
NFPA 101 Chapter 38 New Business Occupancies NFPA 101 38.3 Protection NFPA 101 38.3.1 Protection of Vertical Openings NFPA 101 38.3.1.1 Vertical openings shall be enclosed or protected in accordance with Section 8.6, unless otherwise permitted by any of the following: (4) Exit access stairs in accordance with 38.2.4.6 shall permitted to be unenclosed. NFPA 101 38.2.4.6 A single means of egress shall be permitted for a maximum two-story, single-tenant space or building provided that both of the following criteria are met: (1) The building is protected throughout by an approved, supervised automatic sprinkler system in accordance with 9.7.1.1(1). (2) The total travel to the outside does not exceed 100 ft. The only way to have an unenclosed stair for this building is if the "total travel to the outside" can include travel through the unenclosed "exit access stair". Is it permissible to have one open stair and one enclosed stair with "total travel to the outside" going through the open access stair? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a residential R-2 occupancy, four-story, combustible Type V-B, new construction building with an NFPA 13 system. The floor/ceiling assemblies are built with open-web wood trusses.
All of the interstitial spaces around these trusses are to be filled with non-combustible insulation, which allows sprinklers to be omitted within them in accordance with NFPA 13-2013 8.15.1.2.7 "concealed spaces filled with noncombustible insulation shall not require sprinkler protection." The IBC (2015) requires drafstopping in combustible construction to "subdivide floor ceiling assemblies" above an in-line with dwelling unit and sleeping unit separations (IBC 2015 718.3.2). However, an exception exists for buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 (an NFPA 13 system). If these spaces omit sprinklers due to non-combustible insulation, is draftstopping still required per the IBC? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can an NFPA 13R multi-residential apartment building use commercial concealed pendent sprinklers with standard response instead of quick response?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What are your biggest pet peeves with consultants (engineers or designers) in our industry? I'm interested.
Just a little about why I ask - I work as a consultant and also in our business development. In a backwards way, understanding the pain points only helps guide where I can improve and hopefully help business as well. Thanks in advance for your thoughts! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For areas with high water vapor concentrations (such as near showers, steam rooms, etc), what type of sprinkler would perform best? Wax coated? Concealed with gaskets?
There's many circulated images of corroded sprinklers, but I'm interested in what others feel is current best practice for these areas. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Just a friendly reminder to bookmark this page: Submit a Daily Discussion
You can send in any fire-protection-related question, for free. Each day at MeyerFire we review all submitted questions and look at the best one for the community here. It's free and anonymous and our best way of sharing expertise with the latest industry challenges. Thanks in advance for submitting your questions! Attached is a sketch of an interesting design issue we’ve been dealing with. We have a convenience stair connecting multiple floors of an office building. With this, we need to treat the opening as an Atrium opening. So we have told the architect that we need a draft curtain with closely spaced heads. The sketch attached shows some limitations that we’ve been given.  My question is, how would you suggest we accomplish the required protection given the constraints of this particular stair?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For those who participated in the 2019 PE Prep Series - we'd like to declare the champs! These point totals are an total of each on-time weekly score. If you didn't know, we're big on Fire Protection PE Exam prep around here. The PE Prep Series was a series of 20 mini-exams to help simulate the pace of the PE Exam. We tracked weekly scores and are now proud to announce the champions of 2019:  1st Place Overall (179 points): NFPA HAS ALL MY MONEY2nd Place Overall (175 points): RYAN ON FIRE3rd Place Overall (169 points): ROUND-TWOCongratulations to our top three champs (who will have trophies shipped to them) and to all the participants. Click here to see the final standings on the entire season. Here's to everyone getting good news on test results in the coming weeks! Thank you to all forum contributors for November. We're continually seeing an uptick in interest and expertise, and I appreciate your willingness to encourage growth in our industry with your contributions! Here's the top commenters for November 2019:
Being told I need a sprinkler head that exceeds 350 degrees. Not sure one exists. What are the highest temperature sprinklers on the market and what's the best way to go about finding them?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe On a combination Class I standpipe/sprinkler riser with automatic standpipes, what is your process to determine exactly where pressure reducing valves should be used?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am looking for some options on the following and if anyone has code to backup reasons. We have a facility that produces plastic pallets. Some pallets are reinforced and some are not.
They want to store to pallets to 18 feet high before loading them on trucks. The question being should the facility be protected using NFPA 13 (2016) Section 12.12 dealing with idle pallets or just use Group A plastics in piles? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Got a question regarding sprinkler protection above hung ceilings. NFPA-13 states that sprinkler protection is NOT required above hung ceilings if the area above has non-combustibles even with small openings in the ceiling.
However, I seem to recall a requirement that if there are large openings in the hung ceiling, sprinklers are required above the ceiling, but only for a certain distance in from the edge of the opening. Thoughts on what section provides that distance? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 (2016 Edition) Section 8.5.5.3 requires sprinklers to be installed underneath fixed obstructions over 4ft (48") in width and provides no further information on how that 4ft width is determined to be an obstruction. For most situations this is rather straightforward, but the open ended 4ft wide requirement leaves quite a few obstructions up to interpretation.
With that being said, how is it determined that an obstruction such as a duct, can be considered unobstructed if it is 40" wide by 6ft long, but if it is 48" wide by 3ft long, it is considered an obstruction? How is the obstruction rule only applied to the width of a piece of equipment and in turn is not applied to the length? Is there a ratio or rule of thumb that is widely used to determine whether an item hanging below the ceiling is considered to violate the 4ft rule? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are there special requirements for fire alarm strobes on the exterior parts of the building (courtyards, etc)? Thinking that direct sunlight may interfere with the strobe.
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I know a material (with a certain published flame spread index and smoke development index).
How I can determine if it is suitable for a building? Specifically, how can I determine which types of buildings it would be suitable for (apartments, industrial, educational, etc.)? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This might seem a silly question, but most folk, even sprinkler manufacturer's tech support, don’t know what PE stands for. Can you please set me straight? Why not FPE?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I do inspections for fire alarm systems. It's not something that is brought up often and is generally not an issue, but I am trying to educate myself on what the correct procedure is to determine the conduit size for fire alarm.
Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I just got one in to review where the designer used the Room Design method for am NFPA 13 retirement home corridor, but did not use the Corridor 5-sprinkler provision. He was considering the corridor the "room", but really didn't even include the entire corridor. I think I can help him out by directing him to the 5-sprinkler corridor methods (opening protection doesn't even come into play). It is a corridor protected by a single row, BUT another corridor tees off it at 90-degrees.
Do these "tee" intersections negate the "single row" provision? Each leg IS protected by a single row so I'm thinking this does not negate the intent. Thoughts? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Has anyone dealt with a building structure comprised of steel hexagonal castellated beams spaced 36" apart with a wood plank deck?
Would this be considered obstructed combustible construction? Also, has anyone seen a combustible concealed space head which is "listed" for such structure? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When doing zone of influence calculations, NFPA 13 doesn't seem to be specific about whether the weight of drops and sprigs should be included in the weight of the branch line tributary to the lateral brace on the cross main. It states "The zone of influence for lateral braces shall include all branch lines and mains tributary to the brace, except branch lines that are provided with longitudinal bracing or as prohibited by 9.3.5.9.6.1" (NFPA 13, 2016 Edition, Section 9.3.5.9.6)
This ambiguity is frustrating because long drops are quite heavy and can double the weight in the calculation if they are included. It seems like some argument could be made that they aren't "tributary" to the lateral load because they can "swing" independently, but should their influence be considered negligible? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do all rated walls (fire partition, fire barrier, fire wall) need to run to the floor deck or roof to the next story above?
Is there any scenario where we can put a rated lid and not continue the rated partition or fire barrier up to the deck above? This project is under IBC 2015, but I'm just looking for guidance on where I can get this answered in the future. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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