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From a firefighting perspective, I'm looking at determining how to calculate flow and pressure needs with hose lines.
How much water can flow through 6-inch Yellow Storz hose line? Is there a psi associated with it? How much water can flow through 8-inch Yellow Storz hose line? Is there a psi associated with it? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Contractor is proposing using a single head system using IFC 903.3.8 Limited Area Sprinkler Systems to satisfy the sprinkler requirement from IFC 5306.2.2 One-Hour Interior Room.
Oxygen cylinder storage at vet clinic, "120 gal" tanks, total of "1644 cu. ft.". Section 903.3.8 only allows LH or OH1 hazards. It was originally proposed as EH1, revised to OH1 but has not substantiated with code. OH2 comes up in multiple locations (NFPA 13-19 26.11.1.1, NFPA 400 21.2.10.2). Is there a special provision, or some other way OH1 is appropriate here? At this point the only solution appears to be relocating the room to an exterior wall which allows a "single head for cooling", which seems to not require any specific density, or to provide a full building system with OH2 in the oxygen room. Thanks for helping me sort this out. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A lot of office buildings and public transit depot buildings are being designed with "quiet" or "wellness" rooms for tired employees to take a break and "rest," leading a lot of AHJs to ask if these rooms are R occupancies.
The designed use is not a sleeping room and many clients "prohibit" sleeping but everyone agrees that it could be used as a sleeping room. Typically they're size for 1-5 people and have lounge chairs (no beds) so they fall under the accessory use category to the rest of the building. For example, assume a multi-story office building where each floor has one of these rooms, less than 500 square feet, no beds just chairs, room is entirely open inside. How would you treat these rooms and how would you address the requirements for corridors in the building assuming its a sprinklered building? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a customer who is building a storage building that includes flammable liquids.
The liquids are Class I-B flammable (as classified under NFPA 30). I understand that there are limits for the quantity that is allowed within one control area. The Maximum Allowable Quantity (MAQ) is 120 gallons, from NFPA 30 tables. The reading can be increased 100% when a sprinkler system is used. So the limit increases to 240 gallons with sprinkler protection. The number can increase even more when stored in approved liquid storage cabinets or safety cans, which I assume the customer would prefer. So the final MAQ becomes 240 gallons x 2 = 480 gallons. The biggest storage room is 2,000 square feet and the customer wants to exceed the MAQ to be above 480 gallons in that storage room. I have understood that exceeding the MAQ is permitted if the building is classified as an H-3 Occupancy (High Hazard). This occupancy applies more restrictive requirements. Is there any numerical value for a new MAQ limit in that case? My current path is as follows: Class I-B liquid storage in Storage occupancy > maximum MAQ exceeded > building re-classified as H-3 Occupancy > but where is the new MAQ? Thanks in advance for your input. I usually design under SFS and CEA standards, and they don't have the same MAQ concept within those standards. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This feels like a silly question, but we have high-piled, non-combustible storage, with open-grate or solid level single/double row permanent racks with Extra Hazard Group 2 overhead system.
I'm trying to identify the actual code verbiage that says nothing is required from an code/NFPA standpoint. The product is metallic car parts with no added materials, just exposed solid metal, no plastic gaskets or spacers, etc. The 2015 IFC is the highest code in my jurisdiction, so starting with that, Chapter 32 is for High-Piled "Combustible" Storage and provides no avenue for code justification. NFPA 13-2013 defines "Noncombustible Material & Automotive Components on Portable Racks" but also gives no criteria for non-combustible storage. FM Global Data Sheet 8-1 actually lists noncombustible as a commodity classification, unlike NFPA 13, but does not provide a criteria stating no coverage. Is this just the simple scenario where code or NFPA standards don't list a requirement or criteria because it just doesn't require anything? Again I feel like it's a silly question given the commodity but I believe the only rules to follow would be obstruction rules and distance from deflector to storage. Thoughts? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Thanks for answering my previous questions; I have another one today.
Is the life safety electrical demand on the generator, for the electrical engineer, based on the normal-duty load (346 bhp), motor load (500 bhp), or the maximum locked-rotor road (572 bhp)? Is there a governing standard that dictates this (IFC/NFPA 20/NFPA 70)? We have a 2,000 gpm, 185 psi rated electric fire pump. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When a building is 84-feet from an existing public fire hydrant located across a 2-lane 45mph roadway, can we assume it is standard practice to use it in an event of a fire? Or would the owner be required to add a personal-use fire hydrant or water storage device on their side of the road? In the latter case, how far would the fire hydrant have to be placed from the building?  Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are a structural engineer currently work for an architect on a small assembly hall project; a wedding venue that will seat over 99, which will require sprinkler protection. The roof structure will be wood scissors trusses, 5’-7” deep at the center – see below.  I mentioned to the architect that they will have to protect the “attic” space also with sprinklers.
In response, the architect said the owners want to finish the ceiling and insulate the attic space. Where is it written about the maximum cavity size without sprinklers? Is it any cavity? If so possibly we fill the entire attic space, which is small because of the unique scissors trusses. I don’t think this would be economical or practical. But, what would the cavity depth have to be (underside of roof deck to top of batt or blown insulation) so that sprinkler protection of that concealed combustible space is not required? I assume if this space is not sprinkler protected that “attic” compartments would be required. Any guidance on this matter would be appreciated. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm a plan reviewer for a project that's coming into our area. We have a local gym/special amusement facility that has several foam pit areas.
What is an appropriate sprinkler design criteria for a foam pit? The plans call for a 5-ft platform, which leads us to believe the pit is 5-ft or less in depth, but we're not sure about the building on the platform of other foam pads; so there's a chance this depth could exceed 5-ft when it's all said and done and measured with a tape. Best I can relate to for this type of situation is in NFPA 13 2022 edition, Section 4.3.1.7.2.4, which references Table 4.3.1.7.1.1. Also, I've referenced IFC 3203.7.1 for classification. Is there any other information that you can point me to for guidance? If so, it would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a situation where we'll have a piece of equipment in one control area that has a closed-use pipe arrangement with oxidizing gases that goes through different control areas. I've gotten conflicting feedback on this. How do you figure the amount of "in-use" for each control area? Here's a sketch of the concept:  The equipment that is using the oxygen is on the fourth floor Control Area 2. The tanks that feed it are (2) 200 CF oxygen tanks that are in the second floor Control Area 1.
Which of the following two scenarios is the proper way to tally up the "in-use" quantity for the fourth floor Control Area 2 when comparing against the Maximum Allowable Quantities (MAQs)?
My initial gut reaction was that the second option is correct, but now I’m not sure. My reasoning being that if there is an event in 4th floor control area 2 that causes a leak or something like that, it’s not going to just leak out what is physically within the control area… it’s going to leak out everything in all of the piping, all of the equipment, and all of the hooked up tanks. This is all presuming there are no safety devices to stop this from happening. Assuming my initial gut reaction was correct, is there a way to limit the amount so that it stops at the control area wall? As in: is there a safety device such as an automatic shutoff valve we can put at the wall such that in the event of a leak or other event, the automatic valve will shut off and then we only have to count the amount of gas between the equipment and the shutoff valve? I’ve looked in the IBC and its commentary for more info, but couldn’t find anything helpful. I’ve also reached out to a number of different people and there seems to be a variety of different opinions on it. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Has anyone dealt with the robotic parking garages?
The 2021 IFC/IBC Section 903.2.10.2: Mechanical-access enclosed parking garages. An approved automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings used for the storage of motor vehicles in a mechanical-access enclosed parking garage. The portion of the building that contains the mechanical-access enclosed parking garage shall be protected with a specially engineered automatic sprinkler system. Some of the articles I read indicated a water mist with foam. Completely new thought processes to go through for these since there is very little access for fire personnel. Any thoughts on where to begin or what to read would be appreciated. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There was a warehouse that was struck by a tornado in 2021 which is in my jurisdiction, and we are now seeing some warehouses wanting to place pre-built tornado shelters within their buildings (which is great).
My question is: do the pre-built shelters need to have sprinkler protection? My feelings are that the shelters are non-combustible, the only fuel-load would be from the 5-gallon bucket-style water closet and a privacy drape. Obviously, a fire in this unit while occupied would not be tenable long before a sprinkler head would activate. I also understand that if a portion of a building that would normally be sprinklered (a school hallway) and is "hardened" to make it qualify as a shelter would still require sprinklers. Thanks in advance for any help or guidance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I’ve been reviewing standards to determine the equivalency between fireproofing thickness and the fire resistance rating.
This is for an industrial plant structure. I realize there are many factors but at some point I need a reference to determine what the rating is required to be. What is the process to determine what the required fire-resistance-rating of a component needs to be? In this case, it is for structural steel supporting columns of the open structure. The structure is composed of the main support columns and those supporting vessels, etc. The structure is about 5-6 levels tall. For simplicity I wanted to address the main columns starting on floor 1 where a pool fire may start. If I could find the standard / guidance for this then I can adapt for vessel supports, etc. I’ve been through calculations and information from API 2218 to determine the fireproofing thickness for a certain hour rating. However, I have yet to determine or find the hourly rating requirement. I’m assuming it will be 1-3 hours, for example, using API 2510 (LPG) as a guide with reference to UL 1709. It does specify a 1½ hour time rating which then gives a fireproofing thickness. Further, the fire protection requirements will come from a risk assessment of the system. I have to be able to give guidance to the risk team to help them come to suitable answers. What can I use to provide a best answer to an hourly rating, hopefully, chapter and verse? Thank you for your help in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a highrise that exceeds 400-ft in height. The engineer designed a combination riser with all of the floor control assemblies coming from one riser, and not alternating as is in code.
I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing - any way around alternating the floor control assemblies, like upper-level pumps being considered separate systems or something of the like? Looking for better understanding here and being sure I'm not missing something bigger picture. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In the corridors of an apartment building (wrap) there are fire doors that are double-egress pairs that are left-hand-reverse by left-hand reverse which follows the natural traffic pattern within the corridor.  However, there are also several right-hand-reverse by right-hand-reverse in the same corridor.
Is there a requirement one way or another on which direction these are supposed to be? I informed the project manager that the egress needs to follow the natural traffic pattern. I was curious about the different flow patterns of the doors so I researched the code but was unable to locate anything in the code regarding whether it was code or not, except for the AHJ. The county where I live also agreed with me but if someone out there knows if this is code please respond. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are working on a whole suite of fire protection systems designed for a new power plant. We'll be submitting the systems for owner and consultant's approval.
Are power utilities governed by the same jurisdiction (building code) as other properties? If not, how are they regulated in regards to determining the building code (ie: who dictates the applicable codes)? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a stand alone open-air pool pavilion with no attached building.
There is a gas grill under the roof with a very elaborate hood/exhaust/Ansul system. There is no fire alarm system in this pool pavilion. The Fire Inspector wants the Ansul system monitored by the clubhouse fire alarm system that is 100-ft away. Is he correct by code? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe [Moderator's note: since the first lithium battery question a few weeks ago, we've been flooded with more questions on the topic. We'll do our best to not overburden everyone here but still keep with the topics people are asking. As always, we're thankful for you all!]
Could anybody point out some publications that deal specifically with the ventilation of lithium-ion batteries during off-gassing and how the ventilation should be controlled? I am familiar with FM Global Loss Prevention Datasheet, and NFPA 855, and I went through some publications such as FIA, however from those I only get that there should be sufficient ventilation. I am more interested in the off-gas detection part of the design. The ventilation should be turned on and ESS turned off at the first sign of explosive gasses, but what gasses should those be? H2, CO, C2H4, CH4, or all mentioned in a combination? Not sure how to proceed in this. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am an architect working on a project where we're construction an air-supported structure (dome) for a school district to use as their physical education gymnasium.
The fire marshal here wants the dome fire suppressed. I told him we cannot hang water piping from the dome. What are the options to provide fire suppression inside of a air supported structure that is 180 x 135 feet? Are there alternatives, like water cannons along the perimeter? If so, what kind of costs might that suggest? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am a recent architectural graduate designing and developing a small apartment building with a robust dedicated bike storage room (in lieu of car parking). The goal is to foster sustainable, walkable, urban design.
My concern is the recent and growing occurrence of e-bike electrical fires often triggered by non-UL certified lithium batteries. As I understand it, electrical fires are a different animal than your traditional wood fuel fire, in so far as effective suppression, burn rate, etc. Does current code satisfy any electrical fire concerns? Does NFPA 13 or even 13R provide sufficient protection for tenants and occupants in this new e-bike era? Is this a topic of discussion among the ICC and code communities? Concerned and looking out for safety. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have received a request from an owner of a small office/warehouse (Group S-1) which is approximately 2,000 sqft to omit sprinkler drops into the office buildout portion.
The office buildout portions is about 500 sqft of the total space. There are existing sprinklers located at the ceiling level throughout the space and 1-hour partitions dividing the space from other owners. The background: This individual office/warehouse is in an inline building that is separated into multiple office/warehouse spaces, all individually owned as "office condos". The overall building (approximately 14,000 sqft) was provided with a sprinkler system throughout as it was unknown how the building was going to be divided in the future for the individual spaces. The ownership closing documents and the "condo" association that controls the building have no comments or requirements for the individual owners regarding the installation of dropped sprinkler heads into built-out areas. Since the individual office/warehouse space is per code (2015 IFC) too small to require a sprinkler system and the existing sprinkler overhead system is already in place providing protection for the space, is it OK for the owner to omit the drops into the small office area if not required by code? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a code requirement - IBC, IFC, or somewhere else - for a Knox Box?
I understand some jurisdictions amend code to require a specific key box - and I'm sure a specific "Knox Box" brand isn't written into code - but just a requirement that triggers the fire department key box to begin with. I've always asked the jurisdictions whether they wanted one, and they usually do, but I've never found a requirement that I probably should know about by now. Also, I've had this missed on many a job in a scope gap between subcontractors and the general contractor. What division would supply and install these? As a consultant I usually get a bunch of pointed fingers elsewhere anytime I ask who is planning on providing it. Thanks in advance, appreciate the variety of perspectives here. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a situation, other than a fire pump room, where a sprinkler riser room would be required to have direct access to the exterior?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What are the required system components for a Fire Alarm System versus a Fire Sprinkler Monitoring System?
I've ran into a debate on this in multiple jurisdictions. I know a fire alarm system has occupant notification and initiating devices, such as the smoke detectors, pull stations, waterflow, etc., whereas sprinkler monitoring is just waterflow notification. But, is occupant notification required for a Sprinkler Monitoring System? Furthermore, do horn/strobes need to have a secondary power supply, like Fire Alarm System components do? Is a smoke detector required above the panel/radio/dialer? I know it depends on the local AHJ, but I'm looking for some guidance here... I am the local AHJ. Thanks for your input! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are there any code requirements, or restrictions, to using spray-applied cementitious fireproofing on a steel structure in the space above the ceiling of a building when it is being used as a return air plenum?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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