I have a building being renovated into a (A-2) restaurant for a total of three floors with a basement level. All levels are classified an A-2 occupancy. The building is going to be sprinklered and have a fire alarm system.

Now that the project is about 75% to completion, the owner has resubmitted plans to have the roof top used as a A-2 also with an occupant load of about 30 people. The ground floor to the roof is 29-ft.

The building is not over 30-ft to require a standpipes, but can it be required now due to the rooftop being used as a occupied floor?

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Requirements and guidance around Fire Service Access Elevators came into the IBC after 9/11.

​Do any fire department or other code officials have experience in seeing these be helpful or lead to increased fire fighting capabilities?

I have not heard of any fire incidents where they've been beneficial and they're going in more often now - just would love to hear if they've been in use.

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Can someone tell about how often are Fire Department Connections ever used in a real fire?

We all install FDCs but in the real world how much do Fire Departments use them?

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IBC Section 909.12 and 909.3 requires weekly smoke control tests for smoke control systems.

Can this test suffice for positive confirmation of power to the smoke control system?

Or, is a monitor module required on the power source to the smoke control fan to confirm power to the system?

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Is there a possible error in the definition of a "Cryogenic Fluid"?

The IFC, NFPA 400, and NFPA 55 all define a cryogenic fluid as "A fluid having a boiling point lower than -130°F at 14.7 pounds per square inch atmosphere (psia) (an absolute pressure of 101.3 kPa)."

Following that exact wording of this definition, virtually every gas would be considered a Cryogenic Fluid. Fluids, while not defined by any codes, are either gases or liquids.

The air we breathe has a boiling point of -317°F at 14.7 psia. Air is a fluid.

Clearly, this is not the intent of the ICC or NFPA. The NFPA Handbook indicates that a cryogenic is a liquified gas kept below 130°F. The definition should be changed to "a liquid having a boiling point under...." from "a fluid having a boiling point under...."

Have any fire protection professionals ran across a situation like this where the strict definition was incorrect? How did you handle it?

I am considering just making a paragraph in my report explaining my logic and going along with my day. Or would you not even bring this up with the AHJ because the intent is clear?

Thanks in advance.

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When coming out of a pump room with underground feed which then connects to an underground loop with a bullhead tee, are isolation valves required on the bullhead tee?

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I'll preface this that I'm not a engineer. There is 17-foot storage with an existing sprinkler design of 0.20 / 1,500 sqft.

Based on NFPA 13, I believe we would need 0.21 / 2,000 sqft for a Class II commodity (non-encapsulated rack storage).

How would you recommend going about increasing both the remote area size and the density on an existing system?

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NFPA 13 Section 20.6.6.3:
"Early suppression fast-response (ESFR) sprinklers shall not be used in buildings with automatic heat or smoke vents unless the vents use a high-temperature rated, standard-response operating mechanism."

ESFR sprinklers are designed to act fast and suppress the fire, the inclusion of a roof vent that opens up before the sprinkler activates could severely impact sprinkler activation both in terms of timing and location (as the moving smoke could activate a more remote sprinkler). If automatic roof vents are present, they should have a high-temperature rated standard-response operating mechanism to ensure that the sprinkler activates before the vent opens up.

Based on the above, am I correct to interpret smoke venting is not required with ESFR systems?

How do I go about handling smoke or heat vents with ESFR, or are they not necessary to begin with?

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I have an 83,000 sqft total (3-story) Type II-B new construction building under the International Fire Code. 

Under IFC Table B105.1(2) I get a straight-table Fire Flow of 6,000 gpm at 4 hours. 

With a sprinkler system, the Fire Flow becomes 1,500 gpm (= 6,000 gpm x 25%), that's pretty straight forward.

However, is the Flow Duration straight from the original reading of Table B105.1(2) (which is 4-hours) or is the duration taken from Table B105.1(2) at the new reduced Fire Flow Rate (lookup 1,500 gpm to get 2-hour duration)?

In short, is a 83,000 sqft Type II-B building Fire Flow actually 1,500 gpm at 4-hours, or 1,500 gpm at 2-hours?

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While working in a MEP/FP firm, we are expanding to do projects in other states and learning to understand the different state requirements for Fire Protection / Fire Alarm.

What is the best way to go about obtaining each state's requirements for what is required in an upfront submittal?

For example some states accept design drawings that only require denoting the hazard level whereas other require full design, calculations, and a written narrative. I understand and agree providing more detail is typically better; however, budgets can be significantly affected (negatively/positively) if only a hazard classification is required compared to a full design.

Besides prior knowledge from working in a different state or jurisdiction, what is the best approach in determining what is required?

Typically I start with searching what is required from the building code, but that does not always tell you what you need to submit for drawings, permit documentation, etc. It would be great to have a website that gives an example of what is an acceptable layout/design for each state.

Hoping to hear any suggestions / methods that others use to determine what is required.

Moderator Note: If there is significant interest in this topic, we'd be happy to open up a survey for areas that do require "full design" as an upfront submittal.

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What are your recommendations for fire safety of single height storage of Lithium-ion vehicle batteries?

Currently in our warehouse, in a sprinklered covered area, we are storing 3 to 5 of these lithium-ion batteries before they are sent to dealerships. We have security guards take 1-hour temperature readings throughout the day and night but little else has been put in place and a proper fire risk assessment has not been performed. Thanks in advance.
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We have a client that is looking at building a fireworks retail store on the edge of town. The county is requiring the store to be sprinklered, but no one can give any direction on how to protect it and NFPA does not call out coverage for this type of business. 

It is an H-3 occupancy, covering roughly 10,000 sqft. 

Is there a standard that offers guidance on how to go about protecting a facility like this?

Thanks in advance.

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I'm having trouble finding a definitive code section (in IFC or NFPA 101) about prohibiting open flames in biosafety (BSC) cabinets.

I have a position paper from the Institutional Biosafety Committee which references a lot of well-known organizations (such as WHO, NIH, CDC, etc.) and some manufacturers who strongly discourage the use of open flames in biosafety cabinets saying there are better alternatives to sanitize biological samples. 

I've also seen many college ESH references saying the same thing. 

The hazard is catching the HEPA filter on fire and in general I've read that an open flame is not good for maintaining the laminar air flow through the cabinet. However, finding something in code or selwhere prohibiting the use has proven elusive.

Anyone have any thoughts or references that would help here?

Unfortunately, it may take something directly from code to get the practice prohibited at my place of work.

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If a building has an NFPA 13R system and the building is now being converted to a commercial building and does not require a sprinkler system for new construction, can you remove the system?

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When 20 or fewer sprinklers are involved in a modification, codes and standards suggest new hydraulic calculations are not required.

What is the scientific or engineering basis for the "20-sprinkler" number?

Is there some study or analysis that found this to be a reasonable breakpoint?

I'm researching whether we should require full plans for less than 20 sprinklers. Thanks!

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I'm looking at requirements for hose valves (FHV) at exit passageways and I'm a little confused.

The code states that a hose connection is required: "in every exit passageway at the entrance from the exit passageway to the other areas of a building.

Exception: Where floor areas adjacent to an exit passageway are reachable from exit stairway hose connections by a 30-foot (9144 mm) hose stream from a nozzle attached to 100 feet (30 480 mm) of hose, a hose connection shall not be required at the entrance from the exit passageway to other areas of the building."

What is the rationale behind locating a hose valve at the entry of the exit passageway?

Is this for fighting fires outside?

I have been told it is so that the fire department can quickly locate the hose valve, but I can't imagine they would want to run their hose 130-feet in the passageway just to then have another connection in the stairwell. My passageway is about 100-feet long and it connects to a stairwell that does have a fire hose valve located at the main landing.

Why would I need a fire hose valve at the entry of the exit passageway also, which is 100-ft away?

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I have a fire hydrant in a planter curb, and we will have some trash enclosures nearby.

What is the required minimum clearance for a trash enclosure wall from the hydrant itself?

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The International Fire Code (IFC) Section 6004 for highly toxic and toxic gases states the following for exhausted enclosures:

6004.1.3(1) The average ventilation velocity at the face of the enclosure shall not be less than 200 feet per minute with not less than 150 feet per minute.

However, in the same section for gas cabinets (Section 6004.1.2(1)), the words "at any point of the access port or window" are added after "150 feet per minute."

Doe anyone know if this was an oversight by the authors of this section? Did they miss a few words in the requirement for exhausted enclosures?

I don't understand why the 150 feet per minute would be for gas cabinets but not exhausted enclosures (albeit without referencing where the 150 feet per minute measurement is to be taken). This issue is coming up at my work as we have several exhausted enclosures and gas cabinets and some of the exhausted enclosures have ports/windows which are sealed shut. Thanks in advance!

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We're under the International Fire Code, Section 903.2.11.5. This section allows fire sprinklers to be installed in commercial hood/duct systems.

Is this intended to be in the ductwork only, or also protecting the cooking equipment?

I've never seen this before, but it seems to go against everything we're taught about cooking and grease fires (don't put water on them)! Thanks in advance.

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I was looking through the International Building Code and have not found a requirement for a fire sprinkler riser room to be enclosed by a fire-rated wall.

Are there any requirements other than clearances to service the equipment for this room?

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We are designing a residential building that will have a manual wet standpipe in a fully-sprinklered building. The building itself is less than 75-feet high.

I need to calculate the wet manual standpipe but would like to check my approach. 

Do I need to calculate the remote standpipe at the two most remote hose valves at 100 psi, 250 gpm each, plus one more hose valve closer to the source at 250 gpm all the way back from a supply at the fire truck?

​Thanks in advance for any feedback.

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I have a question regarding the need to provide electrical classification for a building using Class 1A flammable liquids.

For this building, 4 gallons could be out in use (located anywhere in the building). The MAQ is 10 gallons. I have discussed this with NFPA 30 committee, the manufacturer, and the AHJ (who is a knowledgeable FPE). They have all determined that even if the MAQ is not exceeded, electrical classification is required if a flammable/explosive mixture could be present.

The NFPA 30 staff directed me to a provision in NFPA 497, Section 5.5, that if the materials will not reach 25% of the lower flammable limit (LFL), this could be utilized to justify not providing classified electrical fixtures.

Does anyone know how to do this calculation, or know of firms that can be hired to do this?

I am an FPE and do not know how to perform it, and I have spoken with other FPE’s who also are not aware. The gentleman I spoke with at NFPA 30 agreed it would be by an industrial hygienist or a chemical engineer and not an FPE.

But does anyone know any that can be hired for a one-off calculation, or have a place where I could learn how to perform it myself (NFPA reference, SFPE article, course, etc.?).

Thank you!

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We have an existing building were the highest occupied floor is less than 30'-0 above fire vehicle access. This building is being renovated.

Part of the renovation involves the construction of a new building to be connect to the existing building. The new building is higher than 30'-0 above fire vehicle access. The exit stairwells in the new building need a standpipe system.

Does the existing building need a standpipe system since it is connected even though the existing building stairways and floors are not higher than 30'-0 above fire vehicle access?​

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Have a project at a local grocery store that has an end cap kiosk with a Class 1 commercial kitchen hood. The kiosk is 6-foot wide by 8-foot long and has one means of egress out of the kiosk. The kiosk is used for cooking demonstrations and to hand out food samples to the customers.

​The predicaments we (AHJ, owner, designer of record, and contractor) are having is the location of the manual release station. There are no structural columns or architectural surfaces that are within the minimum distance of 10 feet or a maximum of 20 feet from the cooking surface to mount the manual release stations that are within the means of egress.

Any thoughts or suggestions on where to mount the manual release station?

Thanks in advance.

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