For Fire Pump rooms located in a basement, that is accessed through a common corridor, is it acceptable to have other rooms (like plantrooms, storage, etc) off the same corridor coming from the staircase to the Fire Pump Room door?

We would provide the required fire resistance rating for the stair, the corridor, and the fire pump room. I'm assuming no storage would be allowed within the corridor itself.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We have two structures that each are sprinkler-protected and require sprinklers. The first is a parking garage, and the second is a combination parking garage and office building. 

There is a pedestrian bridge between the two built as an open structure. 

Are sprinklers required on the pedestrian bridge?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I am new to the fire engineering fraternity and I'm currently working with a small office building. It's a single-story, 5,800 sqft office use with a small battery room and small server room.

IBC (2021) Section 906 and IFC start with "where required". I cannot find where extinguishers are required for business occupancy.

What is the code path to determine if fire extinguishers are required?

Does the IBC/IFC not address where extinguishers are required?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I have a building being renovated into a (A-2) restaurant for a total of three floors with a basement level. All levels are classified an A-2 occupancy. The building is going to be sprinklered and have a fire alarm system.

Now that the project is about 75% to completion, the owner has resubmitted plans to have the roof top used as a A-2 also with an occupant load of about 30 people. The ground floor to the roof is 29-ft.

The building is not over 30-ft to require a standpipes, but can it be required now due to the rooftop being used as a occupied floor?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Requirements and guidance around Fire Service Access Elevators came into the IBC after 9/11.

​Do any fire department or other code officials have experience in seeing these be helpful or lead to increased fire fighting capabilities?

I have not heard of any fire incidents where they've been beneficial and they're going in more often now - just would love to hear if they've been in use.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Can someone tell about how often are Fire Department Connections ever used in a real fire?

We all install FDCs but in the real world how much do Fire Departments use them?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

IBC Section 909.12 and 909.3 requires weekly smoke control tests for smoke control systems.

Can this test suffice for positive confirmation of power to the smoke control system?

Or, is a monitor module required on the power source to the smoke control fan to confirm power to the system?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Is there a possible error in the definition of a "Cryogenic Fluid"?

The IFC, NFPA 400, and NFPA 55 all define a cryogenic fluid as "A fluid having a boiling point lower than -130°F at 14.7 pounds per square inch atmosphere (psia) (an absolute pressure of 101.3 kPa)."

Following that exact wording of this definition, virtually every gas would be considered a Cryogenic Fluid. Fluids, while not defined by any codes, are either gases or liquids.

The air we breathe has a boiling point of -317°F at 14.7 psia. Air is a fluid.

Clearly, this is not the intent of the ICC or NFPA. The NFPA Handbook indicates that a cryogenic is a liquified gas kept below 130°F. The definition should be changed to "a liquid having a boiling point under...." from "a fluid having a boiling point under...."

Have any fire protection professionals ran across a situation like this where the strict definition was incorrect? How did you handle it?

I am considering just making a paragraph in my report explaining my logic and going along with my day. Or would you not even bring this up with the AHJ because the intent is clear?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

When coming out of a pump room with underground feed which then connects to an underground loop with a bullhead tee, are isolation valves required on the bullhead tee?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I'll preface this that I'm not a engineer. There is 17-foot storage with an existing sprinkler design of 0.20 / 1,500 sqft.

Based on NFPA 13, I believe we would need 0.21 / 2,000 sqft for a Class II commodity (non-encapsulated rack storage).

How would you recommend going about increasing both the remote area size and the density on an existing system?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

NFPA 13 Section 20.6.6.3:
"Early suppression fast-response (ESFR) sprinklers shall not be used in buildings with automatic heat or smoke vents unless the vents use a high-temperature rated, standard-response operating mechanism."

ESFR sprinklers are designed to act fast and suppress the fire, the inclusion of a roof vent that opens up before the sprinkler activates could severely impact sprinkler activation both in terms of timing and location (as the moving smoke could activate a more remote sprinkler). If automatic roof vents are present, they should have a high-temperature rated standard-response operating mechanism to ensure that the sprinkler activates before the vent opens up.

Based on the above, am I correct to interpret smoke venting is not required with ESFR systems?

How do I go about handling smoke or heat vents with ESFR, or are they not necessary to begin with?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I have an 83,000 sqft total (3-story) Type II-B new construction building under the International Fire Code. 

Under IFC Table B105.1(2) I get a straight-table Fire Flow of 6,000 gpm at 4 hours. 

With a sprinkler system, the Fire Flow becomes 1,500 gpm (= 6,000 gpm x 25%), that's pretty straight forward.

However, is the Flow Duration straight from the original reading of Table B105.1(2) (which is 4-hours) or is the duration taken from Table B105.1(2) at the new reduced Fire Flow Rate (lookup 1,500 gpm to get 2-hour duration)?

In short, is a 83,000 sqft Type II-B building Fire Flow actually 1,500 gpm at 4-hours, or 1,500 gpm at 2-hours?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

While working in a MEP/FP firm, we are expanding to do projects in other states and learning to understand the different state requirements for Fire Protection / Fire Alarm.

What is the best way to go about obtaining each state's requirements for what is required in an upfront submittal?

For example some states accept design drawings that only require denoting the hazard level whereas other require full design, calculations, and a written narrative. I understand and agree providing more detail is typically better; however, budgets can be significantly affected (negatively/positively) if only a hazard classification is required compared to a full design.

Besides prior knowledge from working in a different state or jurisdiction, what is the best approach in determining what is required?

Typically I start with searching what is required from the building code, but that does not always tell you what you need to submit for drawings, permit documentation, etc. It would be great to have a website that gives an example of what is an acceptable layout/design for each state.

Hoping to hear any suggestions / methods that others use to determine what is required.

Moderator Note: If there is significant interest in this topic, we'd be happy to open up a survey for areas that do require "full design" as an upfront submittal.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

What are your recommendations for fire safety of single height storage of Lithium-ion vehicle batteries?

Currently in our warehouse, in a sprinklered covered area, we are storing 3 to 5 of these lithium-ion batteries before they are sent to dealerships. We have security guards take 1-hour temperature readings throughout the day and night but little else has been put in place and a proper fire risk assessment has not been performed. Thanks in advance.
​
​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We have a client that is looking at building a fireworks retail store on the edge of town. The county is requiring the store to be sprinklered, but no one can give any direction on how to protect it and NFPA does not call out coverage for this type of business. 

It is an H-3 occupancy, covering roughly 10,000 sqft. 

Is there a standard that offers guidance on how to go about protecting a facility like this?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I'm having trouble finding a definitive code section (in IFC or NFPA 101) about prohibiting open flames in biosafety (BSC) cabinets.

I have a position paper from the Institutional Biosafety Committee which references a lot of well-known organizations (such as WHO, NIH, CDC, etc.) and some manufacturers who strongly discourage the use of open flames in biosafety cabinets saying there are better alternatives to sanitize biological samples. 

I've also seen many college ESH references saying the same thing. 

The hazard is catching the HEPA filter on fire and in general I've read that an open flame is not good for maintaining the laminar air flow through the cabinet. However, finding something in code or selwhere prohibiting the use has proven elusive.

Anyone have any thoughts or references that would help here?

Unfortunately, it may take something directly from code to get the practice prohibited at my place of work.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

If a building has an NFPA 13R system and the building is now being converted to a commercial building and does not require a sprinkler system for new construction, can you remove the system?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

When 20 or fewer sprinklers are involved in a modification, codes and standards suggest new hydraulic calculations are not required.

What is the scientific or engineering basis for the "20-sprinkler" number?

Is there some study or analysis that found this to be a reasonable breakpoint?

I'm researching whether we should require full plans for less than 20 sprinklers. Thanks!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I'm looking at requirements for hose valves (FHV) at exit passageways and I'm a little confused.

The code states that a hose connection is required: "in every exit passageway at the entrance from the exit passageway to the other areas of a building.

Exception: Where floor areas adjacent to an exit passageway are reachable from exit stairway hose connections by a 30-foot (9144 mm) hose stream from a nozzle attached to 100 feet (30 480 mm) of hose, a hose connection shall not be required at the entrance from the exit passageway to other areas of the building."

What is the rationale behind locating a hose valve at the entry of the exit passageway?

Is this for fighting fires outside?

I have been told it is so that the fire department can quickly locate the hose valve, but I can't imagine they would want to run their hose 130-feet in the passageway just to then have another connection in the stairwell. My passageway is about 100-feet long and it connects to a stairwell that does have a fire hose valve located at the main landing.

Why would I need a fire hose valve at the entry of the exit passageway also, which is 100-ft away?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I have a fire hydrant in a planter curb, and we will have some trash enclosures nearby.

What is the required minimum clearance for a trash enclosure wall from the hydrant itself?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

The International Fire Code (IFC) Section 6004 for highly toxic and toxic gases states the following for exhausted enclosures:

6004.1.3(1) The average ventilation velocity at the face of the enclosure shall not be less than 200 feet per minute with not less than 150 feet per minute.

However, in the same section for gas cabinets (Section 6004.1.2(1)), the words "at any point of the access port or window" are added after "150 feet per minute."

Doe anyone know if this was an oversight by the authors of this section? Did they miss a few words in the requirement for exhausted enclosures?

I don't understand why the 150 feet per minute would be for gas cabinets but not exhausted enclosures (albeit without referencing where the 150 feet per minute measurement is to be taken). This issue is coming up at my work as we have several exhausted enclosures and gas cabinets and some of the exhausted enclosures have ports/windows which are sealed shut. Thanks in advance!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We're under the International Fire Code, Section 903.2.11.5. This section allows fire sprinklers to be installed in commercial hood/duct systems.

Is this intended to be in the ductwork only, or also protecting the cooking equipment?

I've never seen this before, but it seems to go against everything we're taught about cooking and grease fires (don't put water on them)! Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I was looking through the International Building Code and have not found a requirement for a fire sprinkler riser room to be enclosed by a fire-rated wall.

Are there any requirements other than clearances to service the equipment for this room?

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We are designing a residential building that will have a manual wet standpipe in a fully-sprinklered building. The building itself is less than 75-feet high.

I need to calculate the wet manual standpipe but would like to check my approach. 

Do I need to calculate the remote standpipe at the two most remote hose valves at 100 psi, 250 gpm each, plus one more hose valve closer to the source at 250 gpm all the way back from a supply at the fire truck?

​Thanks in advance for any feedback.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe