Does plastic underground pipe need to be sleeved when going under a road or driveway?

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Does anyone have experience protecting buses inside a parking garage that use lithium ion batteries?

I can't find any specifics on design criteria (or perhaps even looking at clean agent) for these types of large commercial vehicles.

Thanks in advance!

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I come from a consulting perspective, working for contractors and architects, but I have a question that I would appreciate others' perspective on, especially other consultants and AHJs.

I've been in multiple project meetings where an architect or building owner for a warehouse or storage area has suggested (not outright said, but either hinted or suggested) that they'll just wait until the project is completed to store however they want with whatever they want to store.

This is usually when we're trying to figure out commodities and design criteria for large storage areas, and the owner is far less concerned about the sprinkler system suppressing a fire and much more concerned that an ESFR system or in-rack sprinklers are 'overkill' or too expensive. 

A big piece of this is education and advocating for proper protection of their assets. I get that part. Many owners get that too, so I don't want to say that it's always bad, but I've just had a few projects and one here recently where a building owner directed a Fitter in the field to 'not install the in-rack sprinklers' because they didn't want them (even though it had been discussed at length), also saying that they were going to move around their plastics however they wanted after our guys left the job.

I see this as a major issue.

​I can put it in writing, put disclaimers on the drawings, document what information we do get from the owner, and I can try to educate an owner, but ultimately its not always a situation where I'm going to convince them of anything they're not open to hearing.

Part of it is legal, which I think we generally do our due diligence in that respect. But the other part is just practical - trying to create a situation where the system actually has a chance to suppress a fire.  

How do you navigate these situations, or recommend that I do?

How do you address owners like this who might be intentionally deceiving the engineering and contracting teams to keep costs low knowing full-well that they will store whatever they want, however they want after we all leave?

Is this something, as an AHJ, you want tipped off?

In some cases (some of these areas) we don't have strong enforcement bodies so building owners are left a little to themselves and their insurer visits to catch anything after we're off the job.

Thanks for your input, sorry for the long-winded question.

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I am a recent architectural graduate designing and developing a small apartment building with a robust dedicated bike storage room (in lieu of car parking). The goal is to foster sustainable, walkable, urban design.

My concern is the recent and growing occurrence of e-bike electrical fires often triggered by non-UL certified lithium batteries. As I understand it, electrical fires are a different animal than your traditional wood fuel fire, in so far as effective suppression, burn rate, etc.

Does current code satisfy any electrical fire concerns?

Does NFPA 13 or even 13R provide sufficient protection for tenants and occupants in this new e-bike era?

Is this a topic of discussion among the ICC and code communities?

Concerned and looking out for safety. Thanks in advance.

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Hi all, I need help on this one:

There is a floor space in between the roof and the top story of a building. It's non-combustible construction.

The floor space in-between the roof and top story is 13-ft (4 m) high with limited access, about 64,000 sqft (6,000 m²) in floor area, no occupancy or storage intended, only pipes and ducts will be in this space and the equipment will be at roof level.

The architects refer to this as a concealed space.

1. Can this be considered a concealed space?

2. Are there any limitations for concealed space in terms of size?

3. Does this space requires sprinklers?

Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. 

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What is the best procedure to use when testing a 3,500 gallon diesel fire pump that is equipped with a throttling/pressure governor installed on it?

My graph was well below the rated curve at 50% and 100%, but the governor seemed to disengage at 150% flow and my numbers exceeded the rated curve when we pushed this much water.

I did not attempt to change the controller settings or unplug the device (if that's even possible) to disengage the forced idle at 50% or 100% but insurance isn't "buying" that the pump didn't fail. These pumps aren't more than 5 years old and are ran on a tight schedule once a week (by the way).

Maintenance thinks it'll lead to faster wear and tear on the motor and I agree. All I could really do was state the facts and hope I don't have to go back out there and do the test again.

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We have a project where the architect wants the combination sprinkler/standpipe riser installed within a rated shaft with a rated door to access both the system control valve and standpipe hose valve.

Aside from the gymnastics of the installation, we can't find anything in NFPA referencing standpipes within a shaft.

The AHJ is considering it without an opinion just yet. Does anyone know if this is acceptable?

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Are sprinklers required to be controlled by valves which are physically located on the same floor level?

Are sprinklers in high ceilings OK to be controlled by valves on the upper level, or do they need to be controlled by a valve on the same level as the floor?

A project with a second, or even third-story high ceiling in a lobby would be one example of this scenario. Another example could be an entrance to an underground parking garage with an NFPA 13 system.

It makes sense for valves to control the sprinklers on the level the valve is on, just wondering about a specific code reference. I know about the exception for the top of stair shafts. Thank you everyone!

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I have a question about using galvanized pipe in wet-pipe systems. I have a building in which part of the building is wet-pipe, and part of it has a dry-pipe system using galvanized pipe in an unheated area.

Our renovation of the building is turning this space into a heated area.

My initial thought was just leave the existing pipe in place, convert the riser to wet-pipe, and make any minor modifications to the system coverage as needed.

As I've read more I'm not so sure. FM specifically says not to use pipe that has been internally galvanized on a wet-pipe system, and while it doesn't seem to be outright prohibited by other sources, I seem some strong recommendations against it.

If there is any experience out there on the subject I'd appreciate it.

At the moment I'm strongly considering replacing all system components and materials back to the base of the riser.

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We have received a request from an owner of a small office/warehouse (Group S-1) which is approximately 2,000 sqft to omit sprinkler drops into the office buildout portion.

The office buildout portions is about 500 sqft of the total space.

There are existing sprinklers located at the ceiling level throughout the space and 1-hour partitions dividing the space from other owners.

The background: This individual office/warehouse is in an inline building that is separated into multiple office/warehouse spaces, all individually owned as "office condos". The overall building (approximately 14,000 sqft) was provided with a sprinkler system throughout as it was unknown how the building was going to be divided in the future for the individual spaces. The ownership closing documents and the "condo" association that controls the building have no comments or requirements for the individual owners regarding the installation of dropped sprinkler heads into built-out areas.

Since the individual office/warehouse space is per code (2015 IFC) too small to require a sprinkler system and the existing sprinkler overhead system is already in place providing protection for the space, is it OK for the owner to omit the drops into the small office area if not required by code?

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I have a unique situation. I have no idea how to approach this design since this is a big fire hazard to me.

Maybe it's not as bad as I think.

We have a project where there are art installations that are made from plastic bags. Picture something like elephant legs (bigger at the ceiling, smaller at the bottom) throughout a space. They are made from plastic bags. They are attached to the ceiling on a steel grid apparatus and the steel is attached to the deck (I believe the deck is to be non-combustible).

They have a similar installation in Vegas and from pictures it looks like they installed high temperature pendants 12" or more from the ceiling. I would think this is not going to help put a fire out but maybe I am wrong.

Any advice would be great. Thanks in advance.

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Is there a code requirement - IBC, IFC, or somewhere else - for a Knox Box?

I understand some jurisdictions amend code to require a specific key box - and I'm sure a specific "Knox Box" brand isn't written into code - but just a requirement that triggers the fire department key box to begin with.

I've always asked the jurisdictions whether they wanted one, and they usually do, but I've never found a requirement that I probably should know about by now.

Also, I've had this missed on many a job in a scope gap between subcontractors and the general contractor. What division would supply and install these? 

As a consultant I usually get a bunch of pointed fingers elsewhere anytime I ask who is planning on providing it.

Thanks in advance, appreciate the variety of perspectives here.

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Most cities require fire flow tests before design and calculation of a sprinkler system, but I have dealt with a few cities that instead use a water modeling system to calculate the pressure and flow at certain locations.

What is the reason for this?

Are there benefits or downsides to one or the other?

Is one more accurate?

Thanks in advance - appreciate the input.

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When conducting flow tests and the desired flow (gpm) for the test is not obtained via a single 2-1/2" fire hydrant outlet, should additional flow be achieved by opening an additional 2-1/2" outlet on that SAME fire hydrant, or should a single 2-1/2" outlet be opened on an ADDITIONAL fire hydrant?

So for multiple 2-1/2" outlets opening and flowing, should this be done:

• (A) using one fire hydrant with two 2-1/2" outlets flowing, or
• (B) with two fire hydrants with one 2-1/2" outlet flowing each?

I have heard people say that (A) is correct and (B) is incorrect, and vise versa. Thank you.

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I have a project with four separate apartment buildings with 4-units in each building.

All buildings identified as R-3 Occupancy, Type V-B Construction, single story. There are demising walls between each unit that are 1-hour fire-resistance-rated including a 1-hour draft stop between each unit.

The Architect has noted on the approved plans, "Fire Sprinklers Per NFPA-13D".

My question #1: would NFPA-13D be allowed in these 4-unit buildings?

These are not townhome style zero lot line buildings built independent to one another. I think the project should be designed according to NFPA-13R.

Question #2: One building has a unit designated as a "Laundry room and folding room". I think this single unit should be designed according to NFPA-13 under Ordinary Hazard Group-1, correct?

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

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We have two fire pumps on a project which are to be connected to one emergency generator. One is a primary pump, the other is a backup.

Will these ever run simultaneously?

The Electrical Engineer on the project is concerned about running supply for both pumps simultaneously and overburdening the generator. 

Is there an NFPA limitation for this, or requirement either way?

Thanks in advance.

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Can a pendent ESFR sprinkler be installed directly on a welded outlet of a 4-inch branch pipe?

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We are working on a 20-story apartment building where the corridors are open with parapet walls on either side. These serve as an exit access corridor. The project is under NFPA 101.

In Chapter 7 of NFPA 101, the exist access corridor is supposed to have a minimum fire resistance rating of 1-hour.  However, I can't seem to find any provision in the code regarding open corridors.

Will these corridors be required to have a fire resistance rating? What about the doors of the dwelling units?

I'm assuming if the corridor is not fire rated, then we wouldn't need opening protection through these partitions/walls. 

Thanks in advance.

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NFPA 13, Section 8.2.6.3.1 states that the compressed air supply shall be from a source available at all times. 

Does this mean that it has to have a battery backup, or an inverter, if there is no generator?

Thanks.

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We are installing an elevator (freight) at an advanced water treatment plant. The doors open at two locations:

1. the basement of the facility where pumps and piping are located, and
   
2. to the building exterior with only a small canopy/awning protecting the entrance.
   
   

A smoke detector is located near the elevator in the basement; however, is a smoke detector required under this canopy/awning?

Thanks in advance.

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You all are the best. If you need proof of it, check out the positive feedback we get about the forum and the community from our recent survey comments: ​https://www.meyerfire.com/blog/where-to-find-talent-i-need-your-help

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Is there any NFPA provision for forbidding a fire pump to start in the event a water storage tank has a water level that is too low?

I'm wondering what might happen if the water storage gets down to ~25% of the design level, or lower, and the potential need to shutdown the pump before it runs dry. 

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I have a relatively unusual project (for me), where we are pulling from a raw water source (an open lake reservoir). 

A sprinkler system is being fed from this supply, so we will only have an alarm check valve (to retain the pressure in the building) on the riser; no backflow preventer.

Is a means to forward-flow test required for an alarm check valve only?

Technically the check valves serves as a means to prevent backflow, but it's also not a backflow preventer (at least by the name of the equipment). NFPA 13 doesn't define the term "backflow preventer".

This one is also subject to UFC criteria, so I'm very interested in a code justified pathway than just "talk to the AHJ". Thanks in advance.

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What are the required system components for a Fire Alarm System versus a Fire Sprinkler Monitoring System?

I've ran into a debate on this in multiple jurisdictions. I know a fire alarm system has occupant notification and initiating devices, such as the smoke detectors, pull stations, waterflow, etc., whereas sprinkler monitoring is just waterflow notification.

But, is occupant notification required for a Sprinkler Monitoring System?

Furthermore, do horn/strobes need to have a secondary power supply, like Fire Alarm System components do?

Is a smoke detector required above the panel/radio/dialer? 

I know it depends on the local AHJ, but I'm looking for some guidance here... I am the local AHJ.

Thanks for your input!

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Does anyone know of a UL Listed 1-inch Solenoid valve?

And now to make it harder, the AHJ is specifically calling for this solenoid listing to be for "Fire Sprinkler" not just "Fire Protection" or even "Fire Suppression". They wish to require a normally-open solenoid valve (approved and listed for fire sprinkler use) for the sprinkler at the top of an elevator shaft and we're trying to work with them.

Thanks in advance.

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