Do you have any thoughts or input on the interior exit stair penetration limitations of Section 1023.5 of the IBC? 

I have someone contending that you aren’t allowed to run a “bulk feed” main into a stairtower and then back out again on a different level.  They claim that 1023.5 limits penetrations only to MEP equipment that serves the stairwell itself.  I contend that, especially as clarified in the 2018 edition (although I contend that it was always the intent), any fire protection system is allowed to penetrate such a stairtower as needed, as long as the penetrations are correctly firestopped etc…
 
The confusion comes from the 2015 edition, which reads (emphasis added to indicate the confusion that I think this person is having):

“Penetrations into or through interior exit stairways and ramps are prohibited except for equipment and ductwork necessary for independent ventilation or pressurization, sprinkler piping, standpipes, electrical raceway for fire department communication systems and electrical race-way serving the interior exit stairway and ramp and terminating at a steel box not exceeding 16 square inches.  Such penetrations shall be protected in accordance with Section 714.  There shall not be penetrations or communication openings, whether protected or not, between adjacent interior exit stairways and ramps.”
 
I believe that that person is seeing that “serving the interior exit stairway and ramp” portion of that snippet, and they are applying it to everything.  However, I contend that that is actually applying specifically to “…and electrical race-way serving the interior exit stairway and ramp and terminating at a steel box not exceeding 16 square inches”.  I think that the person is cherry picking what they want it to say, although it is somewhat confusing the way it’s all written on one line.  I believe that if that person really wanted to apply this verbatim, then you would not even be allowed to have combined standpipes that feed sprinkler systems outside the stairwell, or even dedicated sprinkler risers in the stairwell wouldn’t be allowed to serve any floor area outside the stairwell.  Basically any sprinkler riser in a stairwell would only be allowed to feed that specific stairwell…  I think it’s clear that this is not the intent of the code.

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NFPA 13 Section 8.15.4 (2013 Edition) requires certain types of unenclosed floor openings to be protected with closely spaced sprinklers where sprinklers serve as an alternative to the enclosure of the vertical opening. 

What method do you use to determine if the opening requires enclosure, and thus closely-spaced sprinklers? 

As a sprinkler designer, I may overlook something in the Building Code that allows the unprotected opening, or vice versa.

A pre-bid RFI to the architect seems to be the best course, but it would be nice to have something to hang the hat on before the bid is submitted.

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I've heard from several installers that small diameter schedule 10 pipe (such as 1-1/4") will warp if there's more than two welded outlets made onto it.

Would any installer/contractors weigh in on how you best combat this problem?

I could see larger diameter (1-1/2" or more) schedule 10 as a possible solution, which also helps hydraulics. I could also see voluntarily going to schedule 40 as a possible solution. Cutting the pipe into shorter segments and adding couplings would also help, but I could see the cost adding up for the labor, couplings, and additional hangers.

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The International Building Code requires identification of fire partitions, barriers, or fire walls with 3" letters identifying the wall itself.

I've seen (especially in hospitals) labels for each through-penetration with a UL Listing sticker right below each penetration. Is this a requirement by code, or just a hospital standard?

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My son has purchased a condo, (prior apt conversion). They removed the closet doors in the living room related to an air flow vent return on one side when the central air was added.

There is a sprinkler in the center of the former closet. I was told I can not enclose the sprinkler in a closet when I wanted to build the closet doors 3/4 of the way, (leaving 35 inches for the air flow vent). So, now the closet would be only 40" wide. Do you know in MN if I can enclose the sprinkler? Thank you.

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Once again great info/insight. Though it made me think.

What if you have a type II hood without wet chem protection? Are sprinklers required? I think yes (following obstruction rules).

To take it a step further, what if you have a type I hood with protection over the required appliances including the plenum but not below the plenum in areas where there are ovens/non-cooking equipment? As an AHJ, I have never required additional protection here. But now I question myself.

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I'm considering testing for NICET fire alarm certification. What I don't yet know and would be very interested in is who typically prepares fire alarm shop drawings? 

Do freelance fire alarm designers/engineers make up a large portion of shop drawing preparation, or is it mostly all completed by a fire alarm company's designer? Do large manufacturers (Simplex/JCI) complete all of their own shop drawing work with in-house designers?

Thanks in advance - I'm trying to get a better perspective for my career.

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NFPA 20 permits the demand for a suppression system to be between 90% and 140% of a fire pump's rated capacity (NFPA 20-2019 4.10.1 and Annex A.4.10.1). The pressure demand must always be less than the pressure supplied by the pump's performance curve along this range.

Does this concept apply to standpipes? For instance, could a 750 gpm pump provide 1,000 gpm demand for standpipes since it would be running at 133% of its rated flow?

If it can be done, is it good practice?

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When doing thrust block calculations NFPA 13 gives an angle that is the bend off the centerline of the original pipe. 

What angle should be used for a tee or a dead end?

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Does anyone know which calculation can be applied (or if there is a calculator available) to determine if an insulated pipe will freeze (or how long it will take to freeze)?

We have a scenario where we specified a heat trace system to be used on branch lines extending from the building to an exposed exterior soffit that is subject to freezing conditions. Due to cost concerns, the school/contractor want to remove the heat trace and just insulate the pipe. Thanks.

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Where can I find a contractor the performs internal Water Storage tank inspections per NFPA 25?

The customer is have difficulty as the local contractors do not perform these inspections because of the age of tank and liability. The contractors I have spoken with say that the tank is not large enough to put divers in. The dimensions are approximately 25 -30 foot diameter, and approximately 25-30 feet in height. Then the contractors say due to the age of the tank there is a liability they are not willing to take on. One contractor suggested finding a company that uses drones.

Any suggestions on how to proceed?

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Is there a secondary marketplace for selling halon for a decommissioned system? Where's the best place to start when looking to sell halon tanks?

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This forum's foundation is the great contributions from our regular experts. Special thanks to the top ten contributors for July 2019:

Is there a one-stop resource that shows selection of concrete anchors, steel clamps, and wood attachments for use with sprinkler systems?

Much of the manufacturer's information I have is just on products I've heard about or come across from contractors in the industry (familiar with Erico, Sammy's, Thunderstud, Hilti).

If not (and you're a contractor), what manufacturer/brand lines do you use/prefer?

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In a recent discussion on threaded fittings versus welded outlets I heard that there's hanger implications - where a hanger is required for every piece of sprinkler pipe.

I'm not a designer so I apologize if this is an awful question, but is a hanger required for every stick of fire sprinkler pipe?

If there's short stubs to change direction on a branch line I would think the hanger spacing would be adequate, but I figured I'd ask the pros. Thanks in advance.

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In preparation for the PE Exam, the fire dynamics content is my weakest subject. I am looking to take some classes on fire dynamics, do you have any suggestions?

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Lately I have seen a couple specifications require branch lines to have threaded connections and they specifically do not allow grooved, even when Schedule 40 pipe is used and even when most of the armover connections are welded pipe outlets. 

These could just be old/outdated specs, but is there a reason/theory that suggests threaded connections are better than grooved? They can be cheaper but also can increase labor costs on large jobs. Just curious if there's a perspective I'm not considering here, thanks in advance.

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Is fire flow calculated on only one building at a time, or must all buildings in an area be considered when determining the required amount of fire flow?

We have a school property with one school that's comprised of many 'buildings' separated by fire walls.

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I was reviewing a sprinkler plan using flexible house from an arm over. The head had a k factor of 5.6 and the flexible hose had a k-factor of 4.86 with the pressure and flow at the head. This seems like a mistake. Wouldn't you want a flexible hose with a k-factor of 5.6 or larger?

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The International Building Code Section 707.5.1 (2015 Edition) requires structure to have at least the level of fire resistance as the element it is supporting:

707.5.1 Supporting construction. The supporting construction for a fire barrier shall be protected to afford the required fire-resistance rating of the fire barrier supported. Hollow vertical spaces within a fire barrier shall be fireblocked in accordance with Section 718.2 at every floor level.

   Exceptions:

1. The maximum required fire-resistance rating for assemblies supporting fire barriers separating tank storage as provided for in Section 415.9.1.2 shall be 2 hours, but not less than required by Table 601 for the building construction type.

2. Supporting construction for 1-hour fire barriers required by Table 509 in buildings of Type IIB, IIIB and VB construction is not required to be fire-resistance rated unless required by other sections of this code.

The project is a three-story hotel and each unit is required to have a 1/2-hour fire resistance rating between units and between the unit and the corridor. 

Is the building structure required to have at least a 1/2-hour rating on account of these separations?

I see two potential outs that would not require it - first being that the 1/2-hour fire resistance rating could be considered a "fire partition" and not a "fire barrier". Second out is exception #2 listed above although it speaks to a 1-hour rated fire barrier and not a 1/2-hour fire barrier.

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Have a current project that is stalled due to water supply conditions. A water flow test was not conducted early in the project.

Options have been presented to the other responsible parties for consideration, however a particular party has rebutted with “Where does it say you can not go below a certain water pressure?” The existing water supply would be taken down to 6 psi and the questioning party wants documentation on the standards of the lowest psi a water supply needs or should not drop below. 

Can anyone provide or give direction on finding information regarding water supply requirements or standards which address minimum water supply requirements?

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What is the fire protection standard for CT-Scan, PET/CT, tomotherapy, etc. rooms?

NFPA 13 notes only that occupancies shall have automatic fire sprinkler system or an approved alternative.

I have seen double standards in installed systems in one hospital project I worked in wherein the hospital AHJ proposed wet sprinkler system on one occasion while clean agent fire suppression system was used on another.

My concern is that an unconscious patient left inside the gantry by staff in panic can die if the clean agent fire suppression system discharges in the treatment room. Whereas, on another hand, millions worth CT, PET/CT, tomotherapy machines can be seriously damaged beyond repair if the wet sprinkler system works to put out fire inside the room.

It sometimes seems like a choice between protecting patients which is the core business of healthcare facilities or protecting costly property from damage. Is there an absolute standard to put a period to my query? Thanks.

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Existing building with a vertical in-line fire pump that has not been tested in the last 5-6 years. The fire pump is fed from a water storage tank where the top of the tank is roughly 12-15 feet above the fire pump.

The fire pump is rated 55 psi at 500 gpm. There is about 60 feet of 4-inch main that connects the discharge side of the fire pump to the fire pump test header. This stretch of main also includes at least 6 elbows and a tee. The test header has two 2-1/2" connections.

With a hose monster and 15-feet of hose connected to the pump test header, we are only able to flow about 400 gpm out of the test header. At this flow rate, the suction side fire pump gauge reads -20 psi and the discharge reads 25 psi.

In short we are not getting the 100% flow (of 500 gpm) or the rated pressure (of 55 psi).

I can see some flow being restricted due to the long run from the pump room to the building exterior, but are there other issues I'm not thinking about here that would cause this? Obstruction in the main perhaps? Any tips on actually getting the flow up to 100%? Thanks.

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What is difference in the content in the NICET Level III and Level IV (water based layout)?

I am getting ready to test for the Level IV, I have read the test content outline from NICET, but just was wondering if it was more of the same (NICET Level III) or concentrated on certain topics. This is taking in consideration that the content outline from NICET has been read. The only designer I know with a NICET IV, tested with elements years ago. Thanks for any the time and help.  

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​We have to provide sprinklers 4 feet on center to protect the opening between a commercial kitchen and a seating area.

The number of heads to be calculated is based on the 1.2 times the square root of 1500 per NFPA 13 2007 Edition. W have first calculated the water curtain demand assuming each sprinkler needs to flow 15 gpm.

We get a required pressure and flow for the end node serving the water curtain. The calculated flow/pressure is then used in the full calc to balance the remaining system around. So in essence we are calculating the system in two parts.

Is this the correct methodology? As best I can tell the water curtain demand must be in addition and must be balanced with the remote area.

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