Daily Discussion question submitted from a member:

Small bathrooms can omit a sprinkler under NFPA 13 in some instances where bathroom walls and ceilings (including behind the shower and tub) are non-combustible or limited combustible with a 15-minute thermal barrier rating (NFPA 13 2002 814.8.1.1, 2007-2016 8.15.8.1.1).

If the bathroom has a window to the exterior, would it need a sprinkler?

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Daily Discussion question submitted from a member:

I wanted to see if you have heard of any great programs, apps, databases, etc. that are appropriate for creating and maintaining panel schedules.  We currently use Microsoft Access to collect data and turn it into easy to understand panel schedules for the other fire protection engineers and the maintenance team.  Our panel schedules contain info such as how to impair a building (which switch’s to enable/disable), building contact info, a list of all devices and modules, info on all NACs and Power Supplies, sprinkler components and their corresponding alarm device.  Microsoft Access is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain and it appears that this program has been put on the back burner for Microsoft. 

Have you heard about programs that other sites/companies are using?  With iPad integration? With the ability to limit who can actually edit the data?  Thanks for the help.

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It seems that I must have missed something in the 23 years I've been in Code Enforcement.  Since when has it been required for a smoke detector to be in the pit of the elevator?  This is absolutely insane.  We've had more nuisance alarms recently in new buildings.  One is a 4 story nursing home, that the alarm has gone off 4 times.  The alarm company changed the detector and it been good now.  However there is still dirt, moisture, humidity, etc.  All the things that smoke detectors don’t like.

I've looked and Googled it and have only come up with a heat detector within 24" of the sprinkler head, which I understand.  I know smoke rises so why isn't the top of the shaft sufficient?  I feel we are going backwards.

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Had an experienced fire sprinkler contractor run a flow test in a semi-remote area (outside of a large metro area) with a higher residual pressure (45 psi) than static (42 psi). The static pressure was confirmed both before and after the flow test. The flow was relatively low (410 gpm using a 1-3/4" pitoless little hose monster).

I've yet to come across a scenario like this before - could this be due to the city's pumps kicking on during the test, or something else? Wondering if anyone had experience in this regard before.

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What is the difference between cast iron and ductile iron fittings? Is there a preference between the two for use in sprinkler or clean agent system fittings?

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An existing high-rise hotel project in central Florida has open exterior exit stairs. By code and local ordinances, standpipe hose connections are required to be in the stair (hose connections on the corridor next to the stair are not allowed).

Since the project is located in central Florida (with lowest one-day mean temperatures between 25-30 degrees F, according to Figure A.10.4.2(b) of NFPA 13-2016), is there any way to still use wet standpipes and route them in the stair? Doing so could involve enclosing the standpipe perhaps in a small shaft and keeping the hoses in insulated cabinets. Or in this case is the best option just to have the standpipe be dry to completely avoid any freeze potential?

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​I'm currently working on a project for a packaging factory in which there are rooms which are used for storage of Milk and Juice in stainless steel tanks that are about 1.5 m (4.9 ft) in diameter and 8 m (26.2 ft) in height.

There are about 5-6 tanks for each area (milk and juice storage). Each room is about 70 sq.m. (753.4 sqft). The ceiling height is about 11.1 m (36.4 ft). The content combustibility (i.e. Milk & juice) is low and the quantity is high. Since the height of the tanks is above the threshold of 3.7 m (12 ft), I cannot consider it to be protected by LH or OH1 curves and it should come under storage occupancy and commodity classes.

Since my exact requirement is not present in the list of commodity classes in NFPA 13, I figured it to be Class 1 per the liquid content. Accordingly, it would be under Commodity Class 1 curve in NFPA Chapter 14 Figure 14.2.4.1 (2013 Edition) and multiplication factor for density vs storage height from Figure 14.2.4.3.

Kindly let me know if I'm on the right track or if there is something which I overlooked.

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Do you known of any good books, references, or tutorials on stocklisting for fire sprinkler systems?

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A project has restroom stall walls that run floor to ceiling. There are gaps above and below the door for venting. Are strobes required in each stall? Audibility would be provided with a combination horn/strobe in the main restrooms space.

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Question on seismic bracing for fire sprinkler:

NFPA 13
9.3.5.11 Sway Brace Installation
9.3.5.11.10 C-type clamps including beam and large flange clamps with or without restraining straps, shall not be used to attach braces to the building structure.

I typically see Cooper B-line fig.828 used, the universal seismic clamp on the beam flange. Do they have to be used with a retaining strap on the beam? Manufacturer's instructions is silent in this regard.

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For an entry lobby area that is open to the floor above with a elevator on the second floor, and there is a pitched skylight for the roof. Where do you locate the smoke detector for elevator recall? I could not find any specific requirements for smoke detector location requirements in NFPA 72. 

What are the design/location requirements for a elevator recall smoke detector in this scenario?

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Does anyone have a spreadsheet to plot a proper water flow test graph? I know it's difficult to get a semi log-semi log graph in excel. Thanks. (Email us at info@meyerfire.com and we can post it here)

Download: PDF of N1.85 Graph

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For open-web steel joists systems I commonly see sprinkler hanger attachments to the top of the structural joists. When would it be permissible to attached to the bottom of the structural joist?

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Is there any scenario where egress is allowed through a back-of-house (storage and warehouse) space? This project has retail up front and is governed by NFPA 101.

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Does an urgent care center fall under ambulatory occupancy or healthcare? This appeared in Weekly Exam 10 #8.

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What methods have you found to be successful to reduce the noise and frequency of air compressors for dry and preaction systems?

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We are looking to purchase a new software package to design and calc sprinkler systems. Just curious what others would recommend. Thanks in advance.

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When you have a sprinkler system with a combined fire and domestic water service, at what point do you separate the plumbing contractor's scope versus the sprinkler contractor's scope, and why?

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An 18-inch deep x 3-foot wide duct is located with the top of the duct 20 inches below the upright sprinkler deflector. The sprinkler is centered above the duct. NFPA 13 (2016 Edition) has the 3x rule (8.6.5.2.1.3) which only applies to structural members in light and ordinary occupancies, and the duct is not over 4-feet wide which would require sprinklers by 8.6.5.3.3. Is this arrangement acceptable by code?

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For a typical fire pump room, what is the required NEMA enclosure rating for a fire pump controller?

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Is there a general rule of thumb with regards to sizing hub drains? Most of mine draining has been to exterior on to splash box, but lately hub drains have come into play.

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