MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Always-Running Domestic Pumps OK with Fire?

11/30/2022

3 Comments

 
I am doing some work on a combined fire-fighting/domestic pump house for a small community.

A couple things look odd to me.
  1. They have a 12-inch flanged basket strainer after the pump discharge just before the mains. I was under the impression that any devices or fittings between pump discharge and need to be listed for fire protection use.
  2. Instead of a jockey pump, they have three potable water pumps which run all the time pushing potable water to the mains. The primary fire pump automatically operates when the pressure drops to 4.5 bar and the backup pump at 2.3 bar.

There seem to be two deviations from NFPA standards here:

First, the jockey pump should be small , so that in case of fire it is the fire pump taking the load, and second, the starting sequence requires the jockey pump to start above the fire pump churn, the first fire pump a little lower and so on.

Is there any exception for such combined domestic/fire protection systems in the NFPA line of standards?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Sprinkler Concealed Space if Minimal Wood?

11/29/2022

11 Comments

 
I'm working on a mid-rise 5-story residential building.

The building structure is permitted to be combustible construction per 3.2.2.50 of the National Building Code of Canada.

For sound proofing the developer decided to build with cast in-place concrete columns and slabs, but decided to use combustible studs for the interior partitions .

So far, nothing wrong here. Now being that the ceiling is 10-ft high, a drop ceiling was built creating a concealed space for the duct and wiring and so on. The architect says that the top part of the interior combustible partition needed not to be drywalled inside the concealed space to the underside of the concrete slab.

The concealed space is made up of a concrete slab with fire separations sealed to the underside of the slab containing every unit individually without sharing any concealed space with the other units.

On the other hand the sprinkler guy says that the exposed 2x4 studs surface in the concealed scape are not considered "limited combustible material," per NFPA 13 Section 8.15.1, and the space should be sprinklered or filled with non-combustible insulation.

Being that the building was permitted to be of combustible construction and the developer went above and beyond with the concrete structure, I'm not sure whether the space needs to be sprinkler protected or not.

Anybody had this scenario happen before, and if so, how should it be addressed?

Thanks.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
11 Comments

Does Reference in a Standard Pull in Other Code?

11/28/2022

9 Comments

 
I have a project involving spray application of resin, and an exhaust system including multiple 60-ft tall exhaust stacks.

We are located in Ontario Canada, and the Ontario Building Code takes precedence. Any other codes cited need to be enacted by the OBC, or by a code enacted by OBC in order to be relevant. NFPA 13 is relevant here.

Chapter 26 (NFPA 13-2019) includes material from other codes. Section 26.4 relates to Spray Application Using Flammable or Combustible Materials, and references NFPA 33.

I have not found a reference in NFPA 13 that states that an in-duct sprinkler system SHALL be provided.

It appears to me that Section 26.4 states requirements for IF a system is provided.

Unless otherwise stated, are the requirements of Chapter 26 to be used in isolation, without enacting the full text of the other NFPA Code/Standard cited?

If another NFPA Code/Standard is cited in Chapter 26, is the full text of the cited document to be followed?

Where is the line drawn between the two documents?

I have the NFPA 13 Handbook, and the supplemental text does not clarify this for me. Thank you very much for taking the time to read through this one.

​
9 Comments

Alternative to Wet-Pipe Sprinkler in Data Center?

11/25/2022

15 Comments

 
What are some popular solutions for elimination of wet-pipe sprinkler systems in data centers that have installed wet-pipe, VESDA and clean agent systems?

A client wants me to find a solution that will be acceptable to the local Authority Having Jurisdiction to eliminate the wet-pipe sprinkler system in the data center portion of the facility.

We already have the VESDA and clean agent. Are there other recommendations/insight here that might be helpful?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
15 Comments

Sprinklers Req'd for Telescoping-Wood Bleacher?

11/24/2022

5 Comments

 
We have a project with telescoping wooden bleachers.

Are sprinklers required to be installed underneath these?

If so, how is that done properly?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
5 Comments

Does 175 psi Limit Apply at FDC for Standpipes?

11/23/2022

12 Comments

 
NFPA-14 2019 Edition. There is a new section in NFPA 14 - Section 7.8.1.2.1:

The pressure required at the fire department connection for manual standpipes shall not exceed the working pressure of the system components of the standpipe system or sprinkler system when the system is a combined system.

Does anyone have any idea why this was added?

It seems to me that the maximum pressure at the FDC would be 175psi as this is what the sprinklers are rated.

Pumping at that pressure I would never get the 100psi required at the top of the most remote riser.

Or am I interpreting this section incorrectly?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
12 Comments

"Concealed" if Has Catwalk Behind Locked Door?

11/22/2022

8 Comments

 
A non-combustible building has an 8-ft high space above an acoustic tile ceiling with a 30-inch wide expanded steel catwalk that is accessible from a stair shaft by a locked door.

The space is congested with building services, such as ducts, cables, and cast iron plumbing.

Does the NFPA 13-2019 9.2.1.2 exception apply?

NFPA 13-2019 9.2.1.2 (8.15.1.2.2 in 2016) Concealed spaces of noncombustible and limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler protection.

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

Why Would Spiral Freezer Require Sprinklers?

11/21/2022

8 Comments

 
Can someone explain the need for fire suppression inside a stainless steel box that is considered confined space and is typically operating at minus 40 F?

Our local AHJ is suggesting that we need fire sprinklers inside our spiral freezer.

However, I am at a loss of any scenario in which anything is combustible inside this environment. It's either operating at minus 40F or its not, and all electronics (motors etc.) are located outside the box.

Its not meant to be occupied by personnel, hence the confined space.

So why on earth would we need fire suppression?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

Copper FP Systems Require Special Hangers?

11/18/2022

5 Comments

 
Do copper sprinkler systems require "copper" plated hanger and seismic components?

For some reason I remember the issue with copper was the moisture collecting on the piping due to the pipe sweating. Something related to sprinkler systems always staying at room temperature and they do not "sweat".

Thanks in advance!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
5 Comments

A Maximum Required Time To Close a Valve?

11/17/2022

11 Comments

 
Hi All, Is there a code reference on the maximum amount of time allowed to close a wall PIV (or any valve for that matter)?

I have a Wall PIV that is hard and slow to turn, and takes about 30 minutes of fighting to fully close. Servicing of accessible components has not helped.

I probably won't be able to get funds to repair/replace unless I can quote a code violation.

I have only found a minimum amount of time, but nothing for a maximum. Thanks in advance!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
11 Comments

Use CPVC for Condo Parking Area?

11/16/2022

9 Comments

 
Can the exposed sprinkler pipe protecting non-enclosed parking level (ground) of a multiple-occupancy condo be CPVC?

The concern is the effect of the corrosive salt air on the existing pipe that has resulted in excessive rust/corrosion that has been requiring frequent replacement.

​
​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
9 Comments

Replace Fire Sprinkler if Escutcheon is Painted?

11/15/2022

11 Comments

 
It's clear that a painted sprinkler is a sprinkler that must be replaced, but does the same hold true for semi-recessed escutcheons?

Specifically, take your typical 1/2" chrome recessed pendent sprinkler. The 2-piece escutcheon (inside disk and outer ring) is listed with the sprinkler.

Years after installation, sprinklers were masked off properly and ceiling was painted. However, in most cases, the outer ring was also painted.

n some cases, the outer rings and inner discs have paint on them. No paint is on the sprinklers.

Are the escutcheons required to be cleaned off or replaced?

Picture
​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
11 Comments

Does Remote Ansul System Need Monitoring?

11/14/2022

7 Comments

 
We have a stand alone open-air pool pavilion with no attached building.

There is a gas grill under the roof with a very elaborate hood/exhaust/Ansul system. There is no fire alarm system in this pool pavilion.

The Fire Inspector wants the Ansul system monitored by the clubhouse fire alarm system that is 100-ft away.

Is he correct by code?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
7 Comments

Does Draftstop Require Firestopping?

11/11/2022

5 Comments

 
We are a sprinkler contractor running into a new situation for an apartment building. The apartment is designed under NFPA 13R.

We have an inspector requesting that we firestop a draft stop from the corridor into an apartment.

Can you point us in the right direction whether this is required?
Picture
Thanks in advance for your help.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
5 Comments

Does Rooftop Access Stair Trigger Highrise?

11/10/2022

7 Comments

 
A high-rise is considered a building with an occupied floor located more than 75-ft above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access.

Would a rooftop access stair with floor level located at 76' warrant the requirements of a high-rise building?

IBC 2015 Section 1011.12.2 states that where a stairway is provided for roof access shall be provided through a penthouse complying with 1510.2. Section 1510.2 states penthouse complying with 1510.2.1-5 shall be considered part of the story below.

The roof is not occupied and is only provided for egress for equipment access for equipment located on the roof.

Technically a portion of the occupied story is located above 75-ft.

Do I need to meet highrise requirements?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
7 Comments

Valve Accessibility to Be Approved or at 7-ft?

11/9/2022

3 Comments

 
Is there support in the standard to require a control valve supplying a combination sprinkler/standpipe system (standpipe isolation valve) so that a ladder wouldn't be needed to close the valve?

All control valves are to be accessible, but not necessarily readily accessible.

I like to require that they not be installed more than 7-ft, but am looking for code guidance here. 

Is there code justification for 7-ft valve requirement?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

What is Your Fire Protection "Elevator Pitch"?

11/8/2022

10 Comments

 
What's your "elevator pitch" to someone who is unfamiliar to the field of fire protection?

I realized my 2-3 sentences are a little dry and am looking for a new way to further excitement/interest in our field.

Hopefully I get fewer glazed over expressions with your help!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Sprinkler In-Between Large Cloud Ceilings?

11/7/2022

8 Comments

 
I'm a GM representing an owner and not an expert in this space. Looking for outside input on a unique situation.

​We have a cloud ceiling in a large room called the "Experience Center". Photo below.
Picture
Originally this was configured differently where he have sprinklers above and now sprinklers between the clouds in that space where the (red) lights are located.

There are about 3-4 feet between the clouds, and they're not level. The clouds themselves are just under 8-ft wide.

Ownership does not what sprinklers coming through the white wave itself, and wants the sprinklers as hidden as possible.

Do you know what that might look like?

Can we put sidewalls in the space between the clouds and not under the cloud itself?

We are trying to keep the cloud as unencumbered as possible, a very clean look and all the lights, sprinklers, and anything mechanical in-between.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

Thanks to Top October 2022 Contributors!

11/7/2022

 
We're close to rounding out the year. Scary!

Shout out to our Top Contributors to the Forum for October 2022! You all are rock stars in our world.
​
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture

Pressurization w/o Lobby In Lieu of FF Elevator?

11/4/2022

4 Comments

 
We have a new construction highrise that's more than 128-ft in height.

Under the IBC, 2018, Section 3007, it would require two firefighter elevators.

Can we use one dedicated firefighter elevator, with a protected lobby, and the other one an emergency passenger elevator, without a lobby, where we would use the pressurization option in lieu of the elevator lobby requirement?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Options for Exit/Stair Widths without EVACS?

11/3/2022

2 Comments

 
We have a building that was designed with exit width and stair width per occupant using the exception CBC 1005.3.1 for a sprinklered building with EVACS (emergency voice/alarm communication system), however, the fire alarm design drawings show horns/strobes.

Found out through the fire alarm deferred submittal corrections.

Changing the width of stairs and exit doors is not an option as the shell is already built.

The EVACS option will cause delays, cost impacts, and material procurement challenges and not advised by FD because building has inherent ambient noise associated with building operations.

What options do we have?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments

CPVC Allowed on Dry-Side of FDC Check Valve?

11/2/2022

4 Comments

 
Can you use CPVC tor running pipe to an FDC out to a wall?

My question is specifically asking is it allowed to be used after the check valve, where it won’t be filled with water?

Just wondering about the plastic becoming brittle. The CPVC will be transitioned to steel 2-inches before a steel 90-elbow out the wall.

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Limit for Duct Detectors on the Same Zone?

11/1/2022

4 Comments

 
How many duct detectors are allowed on a single zone?

The maximum number of flow switches allowed is five, but are there any requirements or restrictions for duct detectors beyond the equipment capability?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments
    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​Feb 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 30B
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is an International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT