I have a relatively unusual project (for me), where we are pulling from a raw water source (an open lake reservoir). 

A sprinkler system is being fed from this supply, so we will only have an alarm check valve (to retain the pressure in the building) on the riser; no backflow preventer.

Is a means to forward-flow test required for an alarm check valve only?

Technically the check valves serves as a means to prevent backflow, but it's also not a backflow preventer (at least by the name of the equipment). NFPA 13 doesn't define the term "backflow preventer".

This one is also subject to UFC criteria, so I'm very interested in a code justified pathway than just "talk to the AHJ". Thanks in advance.

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What are the required system components for a Fire Alarm System versus a Fire Sprinkler Monitoring System?

I've ran into a debate on this in multiple jurisdictions. I know a fire alarm system has occupant notification and initiating devices, such as the smoke detectors, pull stations, waterflow, etc., whereas sprinkler monitoring is just waterflow notification.

But, is occupant notification required for a Sprinkler Monitoring System?

Furthermore, do horn/strobes need to have a secondary power supply, like Fire Alarm System components do?

Is a smoke detector required above the panel/radio/dialer? 

I know it depends on the local AHJ, but I'm looking for some guidance here... I am the local AHJ.

Thanks for your input!

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We are wanting to know where and how you first got into fire protection. We're doing a unique study on how people get into fire protection, so that we can best inform you of how to recruit others to your team. 

Because I hate taking surveys, I've narrowed this down to the seven most-important questions that will take you no more than 2 minutes to complete:

​As always, thank you for making this community awesome. I look forward to sharing all the data coming out of this study here with you in the next 3 weeks.

Are there any code requirements, or restrictions, to using spray-applied cementitious fireproofing on a steel structure in the space above the ceiling of a building when it is being used as a return air plenum?

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Does anyone know of a UL Listed 1-inch Solenoid valve?

And now to make it harder, the AHJ is specifically calling for this solenoid listing to be for "Fire Sprinkler" not just "Fire Protection" or even "Fire Suppression". They wish to require a normally-open solenoid valve (approved and listed for fire sprinkler use) for the sprinkler at the top of an elevator shaft and we're trying to work with them.

Thanks in advance.

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NFPA 13 requires one sprinkler at the top and one sprinkler near the bottom of accessible, noncombustible vertical shafts (8.15.2.1 and 8.15.2.3 in 2013 NFPA 13).

Does this literally mean to use a single sprinkler, regardless of the size of the shaft, or is the intent to fully protect the entire area of the shaft?

If the intent is to fully protect the area, would the sprinkler spacing be light or ordinary hazard?

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I'm dealing with a commercial occupancy being a combination of large and smaller shops where automatic sprinklers will be provided.

How do we deal with combustible and limited-combustible thermal insulation to ceilings or soffits?

If the structure is non-combustible, does combustible insulation trigger a need for sprinklers above the ceilings?

I can not put my finger on specifics in NFPA 13 where guidance on thermal insulation is provided. Thanks in advance.

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I am currently reviewing plans for a 6-story condominium project with two levels of underground parking coming up in Ontario, Canada.

The drawings show provisions for 42 electric vehicle parking spots (assuming a Level 2 charger included) in the underground parking garage.

I have read the NFPA document on modern vehicles in parking structures and I was wondering if there any recommendations on what to look out for with the mechanical exhaust system or the sprinkler system designed for this particular area of the building?

Stay safe, thanks.

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I have a strange situation: a concrete deck with surface-mounted light fixtures.

We then have a ceiling grid that is suspended about a foot below that, where they have 2-ft x 4-ft plastic grid fixtures below the lights to allow light to shine through.

The openings are in the middle of the room so it's not a "cloud ceiling", and they represent more than 20% of total ceiling space.

Do I simply provide coverage below grid as normal and above the ceiling grid 24-ft in every direction above the openings in accordance with NFPA 13 2016 8.15.23.3.1?

Thanks in advance.

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Can two electrical boxes be placed in the same stud cavity?

If so, are there restrictions by code?

Thanks in advance.

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We are designing a barge loading/unloading slip. The product will be used motor oil. The barge slip will be protected by fire monitors. These will be supplied by a fire water pump house.

Due to space limitations, the pump house will be within a 50-ft radius of the corner of a barge (potential fire source).

The pump house will enclose two diesel pumps and day tanks and will be sprinkler protected. Only three walls of the pump house will fall within the 50-ft circle.

Question 1) NFPA Table 4.13.1.1.2 would dictate a 2-hour fire-resistance rating needed, but the IBC would lead you to believe a 1-hour rating is required. Can someone clarify which is required?

Question 2) Do all the walls and the roof need to meet the rating?

The simple solution would be to make everything a 2-hour rating. However, the pump house will have a 10'x10' door, roof hatches, and ventilation louvers. Placing these on the wall opposite to the fire source and outside of the 50 ft. circle would greatly simplify the design.

Thank you in advance!

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I'm working on a project with a foam-water sprinkler system using NFPA 16 Section A.5.4.2 as a guide.

There are four rooms with different dimensions that need to be protected and we have a deluge valve on each room. My client wants to have a single proportioner for the four rooms.

Can I achieve the 3% concentration in each room even though the orifice is size based on the largest room?

Or do I have to provide a proportioner for each room to be able to achieve the 3% upon discharge on any room?

Any guidance here is much appreciated.

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We have a project with a unique strobe situation.

New installation into an existing building, Department of Defense so we're under UFC criteria.

The new fire alarm and mass notification system uses Alert strobes (as is common), but in some portions of the building there are blue security strobes. These are used as a warning with non-classified personnel are in the area.

These blue strobes flash at the same rate as the fire alarm/mass notification strobes, but they are not synchronized. The blue security strobes are manually activated at an attendant's desk.

Is there a requirement to synchronize these different systems, from UFC criteria or elsewhere?

Fundamentally, the strobe synchronization issue and potential epileptic exposure is the same concern whether or not it's a concert, fire alarm system, security or dancing club - I certainly understand that we don't want the hazard from the strobes. I do wonder if any of you have come across this, and/or what your opinion might be to handle the situation.

We're on closeout for the project and there has been explicit requirement to override, synchronize or shutdown either the fire alarm or security strobes.

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I'm designing a fire suppression system for a new horse stables and barn. There is a hay loft above the stables, enclosed parking for farm vehicles, and a work area for food processing (mostly fruits).

The stables and hay loft are considered one space for fire suppression purposes. They will be heated (in-floor hydronics) to 10 deg C (50 deg F) so in theory, a wet system could be used. The heating system will use gas boilers connected to the local gas utility so I'm not too worried about losing heat. However, the stables will have barn doors around it (high infiltration) and the floors could be covered in hay/straw (reducing radiant heat from the floor).

So - would a dry system still be a prudent choice even though the space will be heated?

The project is in Southern BC, Canada. Our winter 1% design temperature is -6 deg C (21 deg F) but it rarely gets that cold. We currently use NFPA 13-2013.

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Is there a minimum ceiling height that would be required for a Fire Pump Room?

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We have a wet pipe system in a conditioned space.

If this is converted to a dry pipe system for the purpose of installing a nitrogen generator - would the existing pipe need to be sloped?

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I've wondered for a long time if Section 19.3.3.1.5.1 of NFPA 13 (2019 edition) in a way allows for unsprinklered combustible concealed spaces, like a large wood canopy, if the remote operating adjacent to the area is increased to 3000 sf and there's a fire barrier between the two areas?

Is this an acceptable approach?

I'm assuming the barrier's rated must be equivalent to the required water supply duration, if so.

​Thanks in advance.

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I have a project with a workshop space that has a ceiling height of 70-feet from floor level.

How do I approach sprinkler selection & system type for this height?

Does NFPA 13 have a ceiling height limitation?

I see a couple of tables in FM Data Sheets, but is this the only source for protection at these heights?

Thanks in advance.

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Thank you to all those who make this community great. Special shout out to our Top Contributors in July 2022:

We have a church project with a 22'-0 wide dome in the ceiling (all steel w/sheetrock finish), the dome itself is 13'-0 tall.

The consulting engineer is saying the dome doesn't need sprinklers in it - they just did one in a different state and they put sprinklers around the base of the dome to protect it, but nothing in it or at the top.

The dome is on the second level ceiling/roof - so if you stand on the first floor you can look all the way up to the dome. 

They originally did not want us to sprinkler it. We ended up putting 4 pipes symmetrically with a sprinkler at the end of each one, keeping spacing correct, etc. They didn't hide it behind the sheetrock as originally intended and they don't want to build soffits around the pipe, so they are back to wanting me to remove them. I explained it is my interpretation that this is a ceiling pocket by definition and there is nothing in NFPA 13 allowing me to exempt sprinkler coverage from the floor space below this dome. 

The fire marshal and the engineer conversed and they suggested putting an open head deluge system in this area with 4 evenly spaced open sidewalls in the soffit at the bottom of the dome spraying toward the center with a single or double electric deluge system.

I wouldn't want to do it with a single device personally, I would suggest a heat and smoke, both needing activation for the solenoid to open. I think the sidewalls would get the spray over the hazard (covering the floor area), but I'm concerned they won't activate properly. 

What is your take on this?

Is detection using heat or smoke at the high point of the dome for activation with open-head deluge sidewall sprinklers code compliant?

New to me, thanks in advance!

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For domestic (US) military work, we're generally required to comply with the Buy American Act. 

However, our fire alarm manufacturer's batteries (every listed brand) is sourced internationally. 

Is there some waiver to this requirement for specifically-sourced pieces of equipment? 

Or is there some third-party battery manufacturer that's accepted outside the listing?

I'm wondering how others deal with the Buy American requirements when it doesn't appear we have any options. Thanks in advance.

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In NFPA 13, or any related/referenced standards, is there some guidance on where design criteria originates, and what its limits are?

I thought there was something that addresses the intent of the standard not to address arson, acts of God, etc.

I recall something to that effect but thought it was a jurisdictional requirement. I couldn't find any such thing.

Is there any such verbiage like this? 

Thanks in advance.

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Does an exception for sprinkler omissions under NFPA 13 apply to a building protected under NFPA 13R?

In this particular case, we are in a cold-weather climate, and I would like to make use of NFPA 13-2019 Section 9.2.3.3(2) to omit balcony sprinklers. NFPA 13R-2019 offers no exceptions that I am aware of to 13R Section 6.6.5.1, which requires sprinklers protecting exterior balconies with a roof deck above.

This is a wood-frame 4-story apartment building.

In Ontario, the 2013 editions are enforced, but the wording is the same to the 2019 references cited. Thanks in advance.

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I have a parking structure that is sitting in the middle of an apartment complex. The bottom two floors are "podium" design and the architect is saying those floors are "enclosed" - thus requiring dry sprinklers throughout those floors.

Above the podium the garage floors are considered "open" and therefore I believe do not require sprinklers.

Has anyone run into a similar situation?

Perhaps with a parking structure that has underground portions and above ground portions?

In those cases, what is the code logic for sprinklers in one area versus throughout?

Thanks for any assistance!

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We have a proposed fire hydrant in our county that will have pressures ranging from 210 psi to 250 psi according to the engineer designing the underground line.

My Chief and I are looking into this in regards to NFPA standards/applicable code, and are concerned that the high pressure could injure firefighters or damage equipment.

Is there a maximum permitted pressure that a hydrant can be, per code?

Thanks in advance.

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