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Our project is a high-rise project that has smoke control consisting of a stairwell pressurization system, including fire service elevator lobby protection through pressurization, refuge floor protection through pressurization, and a smoke salvage system after the fact.
The pressurization system utilizes the pressure difference between the staircase and adjacent spaces. The pressurization fans (AHUs) will be controlled by the building management system; the signal will be triggered by a relay module connected to a UUKL fire alarm panel, where the fire scenario will be initiated by the fire alarm system, and the control aspect modulating the fans and calculating the pressure difference will be through the BMS (hardwired connection to BMS DDC). Knowing that the signal initiator is the fire alarm system and all the components of the system are UL 864, does the BMS need to be UUKL certified as well, and to what extent shall the system be listed? Is it only for the control component, or does it extend to the field devices as well? I know UUKL is for control equipment like panels and workstations, while UL 864 is for accessories. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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I recently read in a DoD specification for a fire alarm mass notification system that it was required that I perform a voltage drop calculation for my notification circuits that utilizes the end voltage of the battery test load and duration as the starting voltage of the voltage drop (v-drop) calc.
Typically, I just use the 20.4 V (85%) as the starting voltage for V-drops. I honestly have no idea how to calculate the end voltage of a battery bank after a prescribed loading period. I did some digging online and came across Peukert's Law (which could be helpful), and in the battery manufacturer data it provides max load capacities for an array of durations: 5 minutes to 20 hrs, and gives the end voltage per cell of these specific scenarios, but it appears to be a dubious proposition to extrapolate or interpolate values from the tables. For instance, the table tells me that for 5 minutes a 120 Ah battery can discharge at 313.2 A and have a remaining voltage of 1.7 V/cell (which is 10.2 V/batt and 20.4 V/sys), but it does not tell me what the voltage drop would be for a much smaller load over this duration. Does anyone know how to use these tables in order to estimate the ending battery voltage, let's say after a period of 48 hours under 1 A, and a successive period of 15 minutes at 18 A, utilizing a set of batteries that are 12v and 120AH? The battery tables mentioned above can be found in the product literature for Power Sonic PS-121200 batteries. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe An existing building needs to replace its fire alarm system because the current system cannot support elevator recall, which is required for the new elevator they need to install. In Massachusetts, the IEBC states that when a fire alarm system is replaced, heat detectors will be installed if the building is not fully sprinklered. Should the building include providing low-frequency sounders inside the units to ensure adequate audibility at the pillow? I have heard mixed interpretations from other AHJs. The attachment shows the code citation. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  In a highrise building with a sprinkler system designed under NFPA 13, are above-ceiling smoke detectors required?
There are limited combustible materials (wiring, steel pipe, steel ductwork) and in other areas PVC pipe. Are smoke detectors required for the above ceiling spaces? Should they be considered if not? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello everyone, I am testing a Hikvision HF-C108 Conventional Fire Alarm Control Panel and would appreciate some advice from anyone who has worked with this model. My goal is to monitor the panel remotely over the Internet from different locations and mobile devices. Current situation:
Has anyone successfully monitored this panel via LAN/WAN or mobile application? Any guidance, manuals, software names, or real-world experience would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  When conducting a fire alarm test, I noticed the strobes on the 3-story barracks walkways on the exterior do not strobe in unison, but they do in unison per floor. Is this a concern?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What are the laws regarding an AHJ sharing plans and calculations?
This may vary by state. Does having a seal change anything? In CA, plans must have an Engineer's seal, but there is the "Industrial Exception" that says a Contractor can draw and submit his own plans as long as he also does the install. I had a city refuse to let me have a copy unless I had permission from the Contractor, but the Contractor went out of business a decade earlier. Are AHJs allowed to share prior plan submissions? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We've been called back for service work to a recent voice fire alarm system installation, where we found that the elementary school is using the voice fire alarm system as their public address system (announcements, etc).
Is there anything codewise that prohibits this? On one hand, it should allow the system to possibly become more reliable since they'll report outages right away; I'm mostly just concerned with less trained staff using fire alarm equipment and having messages come from speakers labeled as "FIRE ALARM." What are your thoughts on this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe With POTS lines going away very soon, I'm seeing many companies switch to a "POTS in a Box."
Do these meet the NFPA 72 code requirements? I can't find much information about these devices. One thing I am finding is that they do not appear to be UL-listed. At what point does NFPA 72 stop regulating the communication method? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm seeking clarification on where in code it dictates the need for a strobe device in the bathroom of a R-1 occupancy type (for the number of sleeping units required to have visual devices from IFC Table 907.5.2.3.2).
IFC 2024 Section 907.5.2.3.2 states "Habitable spaces in dwelling units and sleeping units" ... shall be provided with visible alarm notification. The definition of "habitable space" from Chapter 3 is "A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating, or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces, and similar areas are NOT considered habitable spaces". The 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design, Section 702.1, states that alarms in guest rooms required to provide communication features shall comply with Sections 4-3 and 4-4 of NFPA 72 (1999 edition) or Sections 7.4 and 7.5 of NFPA 72 (2002 edition). Neither of these sections mandates a strobe in the bathroom. I would like some context on when this became an industry standard (if it has) and where the code reference driving it comes from. Thanks in advance!!! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Where in NFPA-72 OR 13 does it discuss the location of control panels for pre-action systems?
Is there any guidance? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do people do elevator recall during dust-producing construction/tenant fit-outs?
I have heard smoke detectors being replaced with temporary heat detectors. I have heard bag the smoke detectors (but keep it live) and install an adjacent heat detector so that flames could melt the plastic bag. How have people done this? Before people say ask the AHJ, I am an AHJ, and I am trying to keep my constituents safe and am waffling back and forth. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe With the lithium ion battery problem, why not develop or use detection which sounds alarm if a hazard is developing?
Is that already a path people are recommending? Are there methods that already pick up on this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a code or standard that requires inspection or testing, or preventative annual, quarterly or monthly maintenance of smoke management systems?
Is this spelled out somewhere and I'm just missing it? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What are the applicable requirements for speaker placement in high-rise Group R-2 buildings equipped with fire alarm or emergency voice/alarm communication systems, specifically regarding speakers inside dwelling or sleeping units?
What practices have you been applying or enforcing in these areas? Industry feedback suggests inconsistent approaches: some designs include speakers within bedrooms and living rooms, while others install speakers only in the corridors and rely on in-unit smoke-detector sounder bases for occupant notification, expecting residents to move into the corridor to hear prerecorded or live voice messages. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe From a designer's perspective, if a building is small and simple enough, and the owner doesn't care all too much about finishes, then locating a main fire alarm control panel and auxiliary equipment (like a transceiver) can often go near the front entry of a building.
In almost all other cases, I would prefer a back of house space. From an AHJ's perspective - what do you prefer to see for the main fire alarm control panel location? If the panel is anywhere but the front main entry, do you always mandate a fire alarm annunciator panel? NFPA 72 (2025 Edition) states that "All required annunciation means shall be located as required by the authority having jurisdiction to facilitate an efficient response to the situation." Is that your go-to reference to make sure that either the main panel or an annunciator is at the front entry? I understand the design side, but I'm interested in your thought process in terms of plan review and operationally what you would expect to see across a variety of projects. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are completing a buildout for a spec suite; the shell warehouse building was just constructed and has a fire sprinkler supervising panel.
The fire department is saying we have to tie the duct detector into the fire alarm panel. This building does not have fire alarm, only sprinkler monitoring. Are they correct in saying we have to tie in the duct detector? Thank you! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do you coordinate what dialing out method with the client/telecom group, etc.?
A new fire alarm system, let's say a college building, for example, what do you typically see? Does the college have its own monitoring station? Do you dial out signals via cellular or internet, or both? Do dial-out signals go to both the college monitoring station (say, a life safety office) and a central monitoring station? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Good morning, I am in Florida and use the Florida Fire Prevention Code 8th Edition, which references NFPA 1 and 101 (2021), NFPA 72 (2019), NFPA 96 (2021), and NFPA 17A (2021).
I have a mixed occupancy strip mall that is fully sprinklered and has a fire alarm that was initially installed to monitor the sprinklers only. One tenant upgraded the panel to accommodate a full fire alarm for their unit. A different tenant, mercantile class C, in the strip mall has installed a hood and hood suppression system along with duct detectors for their upgraded AC system. The ducts serve only their unit and do not cross demising walls or serve other units. My interpretation is that the duct detectors and hood suppression systems must be tied into the building's fire alarm. Is this correct? Another question, would this tenant then need to upgrade their unit to include pulls and notification appliances? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can an outside horn and strobe be used for a general alarm, or just for water flow only?
I can't find anything specific in NFPA 72, 2016 edition. Is it more of an AHJ call? I can understand where it could be a nuisance if used for general alarm notification. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For an apartment building (highrise), we have a situation here where a child with autism is has intense panic whenever there’s a fire alarm, including false alarms and testing.
We are planning to disconnect the smoke detector sounders from their flat and let the sounders from the common area notify them in case of a fire scenario. Is this allowed by code? Would it be allowed if permitted by AHJ? Would NFPA 72 or 101 address this specifically, or are there means of alternative approaches for a situation like this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an IT room with FM-200 under the raised floor and a pre-action sprinkler system at the ceiling. Contractors are replacing CRAC units.
Should the CRAC units be connected to the suppression system to shutdown upon activation of the FM200 system? I have done 2 days of research with no answer. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do you place fire alarm bells?
Do you just place them normally as you would place wall-mounted horns? Dealing with an old building, an existing system, but not that old fire alarm system that uses alarm bells instead of horns or speakers. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do dual electrical feeds from two separate sources (same service provider, two different substations) with a UPS storage battery system that will support full load for 4+ hours meet the requirements for fire alarm secondary power?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In reference to the 2025 edition of NFPA 72, Table 14.4.3.2, Item 17(7)(a), it is stated that "manufacturer’s published instructions that ensure smoke entry from the protected area, through the vents, or into the sensing chamber" may be used, which appears to include self-testing smoke detectors such as the Honeywell self-test series.
These detectors introduce a small quantity of smoke or aerosol into the sensing chamber as part of a built-in functional test sequence. It is my understanding that this self-testing technology may fulfill the requirement for a functional test that traditionally uses an aerosol can to verify smoke entry and detector response during both initial acceptance and annual testing. Further, Section 14.4.4.2 states that “If automatic testing is performed at least weekly by a remotely monitored fire alarm control unit specifically listed for the application, the manual testing frequency shall be permitted to be extended to annually in accordance with Table 14.4.3.2.” However, this section does not explicitly clarify whether this weekly automatic testing relates to the smoke detector’s functional test, sensitivity test, or both. With that context, I would like to get clarification on the following points: Does NFPA 72 (2025) permit the use of self-test smoke detectors that introduce a small amount of test smoke into the sensing chamber to fully satisfy the functional testing requirements (including smoke entry testing) for both initial acceptance and annual testing per Table 14.4.3.2? If an approved self-test detector performs an automatic internal functional test that verifies smoke entry into the sensing chamber and provides results to a remotely monitored fire alarm control unit, does NFPA 72 still require a manual smoke entry test (e.g., aerosol can) for annual testing purposes? Does the reference in Section 14.4.4.2 to “automatic testing performed at least weekly” apply to functional testing, sensitivity testing, or both? And is there any mandate elsewhere in NFPA 72 requiring weekly testing of smoke detectors? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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