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We have a rehab of a two story with a walk out basement where they are going to expand the basement level and make it mercantile with the two upper floors being R-2.
This is Type V-B construction and they are proposing to 1-hour horizontal to separate the mercantile from the R use. They are wanting to use the standpipes as their sprinkler risers. My question is three-fold: 1. Can they sprinkler the entire building with 13R, or 2. Can they omit sprinklers completely in the mercantile if they separate from the R use by 1-hour (the mercantile by itself would not require sprinkler protection, 3. Can they sprinkler the mercantile with 13 and the R use 13R without a rated separation? I am an AHJ and only wanting to require what the Code requires. I am having trouble deciphering the requirements. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Hello everyone. Looking to get some feedback on a building under construction.
I have a 3-story condo building with 4 stairwells, protected by an NFPA 13 sprinkler system. The condo building is exterior access via corridor which connects the stairwells and is about 20 units total. There is a single fire sprinkler riser that enters one of the stairwells at the corner of the building and goes vertical to serve all levels. Overall, fairly typical. Currently, the building is nearing the end of construction and they’re installing drywall. However, a new Fire Inspector is asking for “more standpipes”, despite the fact that the building does not have standpipes, nor are standpipes required (3 stories, none below grade, and below height threshold to the top floor, etc.) The reason he is requiring them is because he is saying per NFPA 14, you cannot exceed ~200 feet in between standpipes. However, because the building does not require standpipes in the first place, this code section does not seem to make sense. Of course, I know the AHJ is allowed to require things above and beyond the code but my big issue is that the building is about 80% complete now, and he asked for this on a typical inspection. The design criteria, FP shop drawings, civil plan, etc. were all approved by other inspectors/ AHJ / Reviewers, and has been for a couple of years. I noticed he seems to be intermixing the word “Standpipe” and “Fire Riser” frequently which makes conversations more difficult. Just looking for some other opinions on this issue and I appreciate any input at all. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Asking as an employee of an architectural design firm - we have an outdoor performance center (A-5) with a 6,000 sf performance "platform". It is not being designated as a stage (just lighting and sound above).
This outdoor platform does have a lid/ceiling up about 50-ft with walls on three sides and open to the outdoor seating area. Would this outdoor space be exempt from sprinkler protection under building code for A-5 guidelines, or should it be treated like any overhang where products underneath might be flammable? I believe it needs protection, but have not worked on an outdoor A-5 Assembly occupancy before. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 3-family building with parking garage and three floors over parking for a total of four floors.
According to the IBC, a standpipe is required; my question is - is the standpipe required in all stairs? We have two stars which are less than 30-feet between the stairs. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Architect here with a fire code question. We have a fully sprinklered building (ESFR), of Type II-B, tilt concrete construction.
The fire pump room is located on an exterior wall, and the only door into the pump room is from the exterior. We have 1-hr rated construction separating the fire pump room from the rest of the building. The fire marshal is telling us that the exterior wall and door also have to be rated. I responded by pointing out the fire pump is required to be protected from the surrounding building, and that it does not need to be protected from the exterior, so exterior wall and door should not have to be rated. Fire marshal disagrees and pointed to NFPA 20 4.14.1.1.2. That section does not specifically state that separation is required from the rest of the building, although Section 4.14.1.1.1 right before it does make that distinction, just like IBC/IFC do. We have solid concrete walls that are inherently fire rated construction, so typically I would just say ok and label them rated. The issue is we are required to have ventilation in the pump room per NFPA 20, so we have a makeup air louver in the exterior wall. If we rate the wall, then my understanding is we will have to put a fire/smoke damper on that louver, which is added cost and unnecessary in my opinion. Is your understanding that all walls have to be rated as the fire marshal is saying, or just the walls between pump room and rest of building? I've done many buildings of this type in multiple states and this is the first time I've been told this. I'd appreciate your insight, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am in the process of bidding an existing building. Here is the rundown: the ground level has parking. Above that is a 3-hour horizontal separation between the parking and the first floor. Then there are three stories of apartments above the separation. I’m looking at this as two separate buildings and am proposing NFPA 13 for the parking and NFPA 13R for the apartments above.  It will also have two dry standpipes on the exterior stairwells. My question comes to sprinkler protection on the outside exit corridors and the egress travel distance. NFPA 13R Section 6.6.5 clearly states that the exit corridors are not required to be protected. Life Safety code allows a means of egress travel distance of 250' for a sprinklered building. If the building is sprinklered per NFPA 13R with the above ommision, can the 250' egress travel distance be used? Thought/Comments appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project with an air supported dome structure. It's serving around 430,000+ sqft of indoor sports.
However, I am a bit confused with the type of construction this would be clasified as. As per NFPA 5000 and IBC, an air-supported structure can be Type II-B (000), but wouldn't we be limited on allowable floor area restrictions for the site of the building? Are there any exceptions to sprinkler protection for a building like this? I would really appreciate your point of view, thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a multistory hotel building with the rooms opening to an exterior corridor. There is Exterior Insulation Finish System (EIFS) along the walls of the exterior corridor.
NFPA 13 (2022), Section 9.2.3.3 allows omission of sprinklers from exterior exit corridors where the exterior wall of the corridor is at least 50% open and where the corridor is entirely of noncombustible construction. It seems from research that EIFS is considered combustible and would require sprinkler protection along the exterior corridor. Has anyone done more research on this or has this come up before for other projects with EIFS in the exterior corridors and ultimately required sprinkler protection? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe If a stair structure is supporting the fire barriers that enclose the exit enclosure, does the stair structure have to be fire rated as well?
Looking specifically at IBC 2018 Section 707.5.1 and NFPA 101 (2018) Section 7.1.3.2. If there is a fire inside a stair, the means of egress is no longer usable and at that point are you protecting the interior of the building from the fire inside the exit enclosure? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Water curtain using automatic sprinklers to avoid providing opening protectives - there's a lot of confusion on this.
Exception stated under Section 705.8.2 of 2021 International Building Code (OBC) states that Opening protectives are not required where the building is equipped through an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.1.1 and the exterior openings are protected by a water curtain using automatic sprinkler systems approved for that use. Can we use this exception and provide a water curtain using automatic sprinklers to avoid fire rated doors in the loading dock of a building? Is there anything else that I need to be concerned about while designing these sprinklers for the water curtain? Need more clarity here before recommending an approach. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A lot of office buildings and public transit depot buildings are being designed with "quiet" or "wellness" rooms for tired employees to take a break and "rest," leading a lot of AHJs to ask if these rooms are R occupancies.
The designed use is not a sleeping room and many clients "prohibit" sleeping but everyone agrees that it could be used as a sleeping room. Typically they're size for 1-5 people and have lounge chairs (no beds) so they fall under the accessory use category to the rest of the building. For example, assume a multi-story office building where each floor has one of these rooms, less than 500 square feet, no beds just chairs, room is entirely open inside. How would you treat these rooms and how would you address the requirements for corridors in the building assuming its a sprinklered building? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What code or standard prescribes the location and/or number of heat / smoke / gas detectors needed for an industrial / chemical plant?
We have an open steel structure with processing equipment on most floors, which are essentially grating – no roof and no walls – containing flammable and toxic chemicals. We’ve planned to place some detection in strategic spots downwind of the flare (southmost) and tankfarm (same flammables) and there are some single-story buildings and other outside equipment like a cooling tower, nitrogen generation, boiler – all downwind of the tankfarm and open structure mentioned. So, some of all types where personnel could be in any area especially the lab/control room and electrical building mentioned above. The modular building supplier may have those taken care of but I need to check behind them. The majority are outside and in the nine-story structure. I plan to have flame and gas detectors throughout depending on the correct guidance. Thanks in advance for your take! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe UL designs discuss loading-bearing and non-load bearing walls.
I haven't seem many where they discuss when, say, electrical, fire pump, fire alarm panels or other equipment are mounted on the walls. At what point do you have to consider the objects on the wall and consider the wall as load-bearing? It may just be a structural question, but my structural contacts have said not to worry but I wanted to hear others opinions. Thank you in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there an egress requirement for a garage structure that only houses the car stacker, with 10 bays and 3 levels?
What would a code path be for or against such a requirement? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have sprinklers at an exterior overhang over 100 feet above the floor (ground) it protects. There will not be anything stored directly beneath the overhang.
There is occupiable space above the overhang. It's noncombustible construction; a mid-rise office tower. Questions have been brought up about heat collection, and the effectiveness of sprinkler spray: if there was a fire on the ground level, will enough heat be collected at the overhang 100-ft up in order to operate an intermediate temperature sprinkler that is 286 degrees F? What will happen if there are high winds (common for this area)? And if the sprinklers do discharge, will the water spray droplets evaporate before reaching a proximity of effectiveness? Will a "cooling effect" even happen? The AHJ will allow the sprinklers to be omitted. I'm not seeing anything specific to very high ceilings in NFPA 13 (2016). My question to you all: Where can I find the science to backup their decision? Do you know of any resources where this scenario has been studied, evaluated, or fire-modeled? (FM or non-FM?) Obtaining a PE review is not a desirable option. (I am aware that FM datasheets address this scenario as requiring sprinklers.) Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a customer who is building a storage building that includes flammable liquids.
The liquids are Class I-B flammable (as classified under NFPA 30). I understand that there are limits for the quantity that is allowed within one control area. The Maximum Allowable Quantity (MAQ) is 120 gallons, from NFPA 30 tables. The reading can be increased 100% when a sprinkler system is used. So the limit increases to 240 gallons with sprinkler protection. The number can increase even more when stored in approved liquid storage cabinets or safety cans, which I assume the customer would prefer. So the final MAQ becomes 240 gallons x 2 = 480 gallons. The biggest storage room is 2,000 square feet and the customer wants to exceed the MAQ to be above 480 gallons in that storage room. I have understood that exceeding the MAQ is permitted if the building is classified as an H-3 Occupancy (High Hazard). This occupancy applies more restrictive requirements. Is there any numerical value for a new MAQ limit in that case? My current path is as follows: Class I-B liquid storage in Storage occupancy > maximum MAQ exceeded > building re-classified as H-3 Occupancy > but where is the new MAQ? Thanks in advance for your input. I usually design under SFS and CEA standards, and they don't have the same MAQ concept within those standards. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does a correctional occupancy type imply secure ceilings are required?
NFPA 5000 could be interpreted as such, but as we know, it's more about the construction of the building. There is a ceilings section though so I'm unsure. If plans called for an institutional sprinkler and secure ceilings but the owner/government changes their mind and installs standard sprinklers, is there any issue or repercussion? Look forward to your interpretations. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can "open parking garages" be located below high rise buildings?
If so, can the standpipes for the parking garage be manual dry and can sprinklers be omitted in the portion of the building considered an open-garage expect for the level directly below the high-rise occupancy? Trying to get some big-picture understanding here, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can non-residential sprinklers be used in a NFPA 13R design?
NFPA 13R lists that residential sprinklers are permitted for use but does not list they are required to be used. My understanding is that sprinklers used in NFPA 13 for light hazard would exceed or meet sprinkler requirements within NFPA 13R On this premise, would installing a sprinkler for light hazard occupancy be exceeding NFPA 13R minimums, and thus be acceptable? We have a dry sprinkler system we are installing in a small existing dormitory built with combustible construction. We are using a NFPA 13R design approach which avoids sprinklering the attic space, with local AHJ approval. We need to have concealed sprinklers under request of the owner based on the occupancy, but there are not residential concealed dry pendent sprinklers, and the contractor is pushing to install recessed dry residential sprinklers. Thanks in advance. I am overseeing an NFPA 101, Chapter 43 reconstruction project in an existing storage occupancy that is changing to an industrial/high hazard occupancy.
I am trying to coordinate the means of egress during construction. Other parts of the building are currently occupied and the new area is less than 50% of the building. Section 43.7.2.3 requires that the area comply with the applicable new construction chapters of the occupancy. The hazard category per table 43.7.3 leads me to believe this would be a hazard category 1. The question is: when is the construction area considered to be high hazard? The contents of the hazardous occupancy will not be present through the entirety of the construction and will only be put in place after the space is ready to be occupied and compliant with all means of egress requirements. During construction, the "high hazard contents room" is just a small room with nothing located inside. Even with no high hazard contents present until the space is ready to be occupied, does it need to meet the egress requirements of new industrial/high hazard or can it meet the egress requirements of existing for storage? Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are a structural engineer currently work for an architect on a small assembly hall project; a wedding venue that will seat over 99, which will require sprinkler protection. The roof structure will be wood scissors trusses, 5’-7” deep at the center – see below.  I mentioned to the architect that they will have to protect the “attic” space also with sprinklers.
In response, the architect said the owners want to finish the ceiling and insulate the attic space. Where is it written about the maximum cavity size without sprinklers? Is it any cavity? If so possibly we fill the entire attic space, which is small because of the unique scissors trusses. I don’t think this would be economical or practical. But, what would the cavity depth have to be (underside of roof deck to top of batt or blown insulation) so that sprinkler protection of that concealed combustible space is not required? I assume if this space is not sprinkler protected that “attic” compartments would be required. Any guidance on this matter would be appreciated. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a situation where we'll have a piece of equipment in one control area that has a closed-use pipe arrangement with oxidizing gases that goes through different control areas. I've gotten conflicting feedback on this. How do you figure the amount of "in-use" for each control area? Here's a sketch of the concept:  The equipment that is using the oxygen is on the fourth floor Control Area 2. The tanks that feed it are (2) 200 CF oxygen tanks that are in the second floor Control Area 1.
Which of the following two scenarios is the proper way to tally up the "in-use" quantity for the fourth floor Control Area 2 when comparing against the Maximum Allowable Quantities (MAQs)?
My initial gut reaction was that the second option is correct, but now I’m not sure. My reasoning being that if there is an event in 4th floor control area 2 that causes a leak or something like that, it’s not going to just leak out what is physically within the control area… it’s going to leak out everything in all of the piping, all of the equipment, and all of the hooked up tanks. This is all presuming there are no safety devices to stop this from happening. Assuming my initial gut reaction was correct, is there a way to limit the amount so that it stops at the control area wall? As in: is there a safety device such as an automatic shutoff valve we can put at the wall such that in the event of a leak or other event, the automatic valve will shut off and then we only have to count the amount of gas between the equipment and the shutoff valve? I’ve looked in the IBC and its commentary for more info, but couldn’t find anything helpful. I’ve also reached out to a number of different people and there seems to be a variety of different opinions on it. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do open (exterior) stairs need standpipes?
If the stairs are more than 50% open, sprinkler protection is not required but what about standpipes? This building has three stairways. Two are interior and one is open and on the exterior. Standpipes are provided in the two interior stairways. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the required duration for a Secondary Water Supply within Seismic Zone?
IBC Section 403.3.3: "The secondary water supply shall have a duration of not less than 30 minutes as determined by the occupancy hazard classification in accordance with NFPA 13." Does this mean minimum 30 minutes, with the gpm/demand determined by NFPA 13? Or the minimum duration is also determined by NFPA 13, such that the secondary water supply could require an even longer duration, like 60 minutes? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Has anyone dealt with the robotic parking garages?
The 2021 IFC/IBC Section 903.2.10.2: Mechanical-access enclosed parking garages. An approved automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings used for the storage of motor vehicles in a mechanical-access enclosed parking garage. The portion of the building that contains the mechanical-access enclosed parking garage shall be protected with a specially engineered automatic sprinkler system. Some of the articles I read indicated a water mist with foam. Completely new thought processes to go through for these since there is very little access for fire personnel. Any thoughts on where to begin or what to read would be appreciated. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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