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A lot of office buildings and public transit depot buildings are being designed with "quiet" or "wellness" rooms for tired employees to take a break and "rest," leading a lot of AHJs to ask if these rooms are R occupancies.
The designed use is not a sleeping room and many clients "prohibit" sleeping but everyone agrees that it could be used as a sleeping room. Typically they're size for 1-5 people and have lounge chairs (no beds) so they fall under the accessory use category to the rest of the building. For example, assume a multi-story office building where each floor has one of these rooms, less than 500 square feet, no beds just chairs, room is entirely open inside. How would you treat these rooms and how would you address the requirements for corridors in the building assuming its a sprinklered building? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
17 Comments
What code or standard prescribes the location and/or number of heat / smoke / gas detectors needed for an industrial / chemical plant?
We have an open steel structure with processing equipment on most floors, which are essentially grating – no roof and no walls – containing flammable and toxic chemicals. We’ve planned to place some detection in strategic spots downwind of the flare (southmost) and tankfarm (same flammables) and there are some single-story buildings and other outside equipment like a cooling tower, nitrogen generation, boiler – all downwind of the tankfarm and open structure mentioned. So, some of all types where personnel could be in any area especially the lab/control room and electrical building mentioned above. The modular building supplier may have those taken care of but I need to check behind them. The majority are outside and in the nine-story structure. I plan to have flame and gas detectors throughout depending on the correct guidance. Thanks in advance for your take! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe UL designs discuss loading-bearing and non-load bearing walls.
I haven't seem many where they discuss when, say, electrical, fire pump, fire alarm panels or other equipment are mounted on the walls. At what point do you have to consider the objects on the wall and consider the wall as load-bearing? It may just be a structural question, but my structural contacts have said not to worry but I wanted to hear others opinions. Thank you in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there an egress requirement for a garage structure that only houses the car stacker, with 10 bays and 3 levels?
What would a code path be for or against such a requirement? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have sprinklers at an exterior overhang over 100 feet above the floor (ground) it protects. There will not be anything stored directly beneath the overhang.
There is occupiable space above the overhang. It's noncombustible construction; a mid-rise office tower. Questions have been brought up about heat collection, and the effectiveness of sprinkler spray: if there was a fire on the ground level, will enough heat be collected at the overhang 100-ft up in order to operate an intermediate temperature sprinkler that is 286 degrees F? What will happen if there are high winds (common for this area)? And if the sprinklers do discharge, will the water spray droplets evaporate before reaching a proximity of effectiveness? Will a "cooling effect" even happen? The AHJ will allow the sprinklers to be omitted. I'm not seeing anything specific to very high ceilings in NFPA 13 (2016). My question to you all: Where can I find the science to backup their decision? Do you know of any resources where this scenario has been studied, evaluated, or fire-modeled? (FM or non-FM?) Obtaining a PE review is not a desirable option. (I am aware that FM datasheets address this scenario as requiring sprinklers.) Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a customer who is building a storage building that includes flammable liquids.
The liquids are Class I-B flammable (as classified under NFPA 30). I understand that there are limits for the quantity that is allowed within one control area. The Maximum Allowable Quantity (MAQ) is 120 gallons, from NFPA 30 tables. The reading can be increased 100% when a sprinkler system is used. So the limit increases to 240 gallons with sprinkler protection. The number can increase even more when stored in approved liquid storage cabinets or safety cans, which I assume the customer would prefer. So the final MAQ becomes 240 gallons x 2 = 480 gallons. The biggest storage room is 2,000 square feet and the customer wants to exceed the MAQ to be above 480 gallons in that storage room. I have understood that exceeding the MAQ is permitted if the building is classified as an H-3 Occupancy (High Hazard). This occupancy applies more restrictive requirements. Is there any numerical value for a new MAQ limit in that case? My current path is as follows: Class I-B liquid storage in Storage occupancy > maximum MAQ exceeded > building re-classified as H-3 Occupancy > but where is the new MAQ? Thanks in advance for your input. I usually design under SFS and CEA standards, and they don't have the same MAQ concept within those standards. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does a correctional occupancy type imply secure ceilings are required?
NFPA 5000 could be interpreted as such, but as we know, it's more about the construction of the building. There is a ceilings section though so I'm unsure. If plans called for an institutional sprinkler and secure ceilings but the owner/government changes their mind and installs standard sprinklers, is there any issue or repercussion? Look forward to your interpretations. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can "open parking garages" be located below high rise buildings?
If so, can the standpipes for the parking garage be manual dry and can sprinklers be omitted in the portion of the building considered an open-garage expect for the level directly below the high-rise occupancy? Trying to get some big-picture understanding here, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can non-residential sprinklers be used in a NFPA 13R design?
NFPA 13R lists that residential sprinklers are permitted for use but does not list they are required to be used. My understanding is that sprinklers used in NFPA 13 for light hazard would exceed or meet sprinkler requirements within NFPA 13R On this premise, would installing a sprinkler for light hazard occupancy be exceeding NFPA 13R minimums, and thus be acceptable? We have a dry sprinkler system we are installing in a small existing dormitory built with combustible construction. We are using a NFPA 13R design approach which avoids sprinklering the attic space, with local AHJ approval. We need to have concealed sprinklers under request of the owner based on the occupancy, but there are not residential concealed dry pendent sprinklers, and the contractor is pushing to install recessed dry residential sprinklers. Thanks in advance. I am overseeing an NFPA 101, Chapter 43 reconstruction project in an existing storage occupancy that is changing to an industrial/high hazard occupancy.
I am trying to coordinate the means of egress during construction. Other parts of the building are currently occupied and the new area is less than 50% of the building. Section 43.7.2.3 requires that the area comply with the applicable new construction chapters of the occupancy. The hazard category per table 43.7.3 leads me to believe this would be a hazard category 1. The question is: when is the construction area considered to be high hazard? The contents of the hazardous occupancy will not be present through the entirety of the construction and will only be put in place after the space is ready to be occupied and compliant with all means of egress requirements. During construction, the "high hazard contents room" is just a small room with nothing located inside. Even with no high hazard contents present until the space is ready to be occupied, does it need to meet the egress requirements of new industrial/high hazard or can it meet the egress requirements of existing for storage? Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are a structural engineer currently work for an architect on a small assembly hall project; a wedding venue that will seat over 99, which will require sprinkler protection. The roof structure will be wood scissors trusses, 5’-7” deep at the center – see below.  I mentioned to the architect that they will have to protect the “attic” space also with sprinklers.
In response, the architect said the owners want to finish the ceiling and insulate the attic space. Where is it written about the maximum cavity size without sprinklers? Is it any cavity? If so possibly we fill the entire attic space, which is small because of the unique scissors trusses. I don’t think this would be economical or practical. But, what would the cavity depth have to be (underside of roof deck to top of batt or blown insulation) so that sprinkler protection of that concealed combustible space is not required? I assume if this space is not sprinkler protected that “attic” compartments would be required. Any guidance on this matter would be appreciated. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a situation where we'll have a piece of equipment in one control area that has a closed-use pipe arrangement with oxidizing gases that goes through different control areas. I've gotten conflicting feedback on this. How do you figure the amount of "in-use" for each control area? Here's a sketch of the concept:  The equipment that is using the oxygen is on the fourth floor Control Area 2. The tanks that feed it are (2) 200 CF oxygen tanks that are in the second floor Control Area 1.
Which of the following two scenarios is the proper way to tally up the "in-use" quantity for the fourth floor Control Area 2 when comparing against the Maximum Allowable Quantities (MAQs)?
My initial gut reaction was that the second option is correct, but now I’m not sure. My reasoning being that if there is an event in 4th floor control area 2 that causes a leak or something like that, it’s not going to just leak out what is physically within the control area… it’s going to leak out everything in all of the piping, all of the equipment, and all of the hooked up tanks. This is all presuming there are no safety devices to stop this from happening. Assuming my initial gut reaction was correct, is there a way to limit the amount so that it stops at the control area wall? As in: is there a safety device such as an automatic shutoff valve we can put at the wall such that in the event of a leak or other event, the automatic valve will shut off and then we only have to count the amount of gas between the equipment and the shutoff valve? I’ve looked in the IBC and its commentary for more info, but couldn’t find anything helpful. I’ve also reached out to a number of different people and there seems to be a variety of different opinions on it. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do open (exterior) stairs need standpipes?
If the stairs are more than 50% open, sprinkler protection is not required but what about standpipes? This building has three stairways. Two are interior and one is open and on the exterior. Standpipes are provided in the two interior stairways. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the required duration for a Secondary Water Supply within Seismic Zone?
IBC Section 403.3.3: "The secondary water supply shall have a duration of not less than 30 minutes as determined by the occupancy hazard classification in accordance with NFPA 13." Does this mean minimum 30 minutes, with the gpm/demand determined by NFPA 13? Or the minimum duration is also determined by NFPA 13, such that the secondary water supply could require an even longer duration, like 60 minutes? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Has anyone dealt with the robotic parking garages?
The 2021 IFC/IBC Section 903.2.10.2: Mechanical-access enclosed parking garages. An approved automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings used for the storage of motor vehicles in a mechanical-access enclosed parking garage. The portion of the building that contains the mechanical-access enclosed parking garage shall be protected with a specially engineered automatic sprinkler system. Some of the articles I read indicated a water mist with foam. Completely new thought processes to go through for these since there is very little access for fire personnel. Any thoughts on where to begin or what to read would be appreciated. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There was a warehouse that was struck by a tornado in 2021 which is in my jurisdiction, and we are now seeing some warehouses wanting to place pre-built tornado shelters within their buildings (which is great).
My question is: do the pre-built shelters need to have sprinkler protection? My feelings are that the shelters are non-combustible, the only fuel-load would be from the 5-gallon bucket-style water closet and a privacy drape. Obviously, a fire in this unit while occupied would not be tenable long before a sprinkler head would activate. I also understand that if a portion of a building that would normally be sprinklered (a school hallway) and is "hardened" to make it qualify as a shelter would still require sprinklers. Thanks in advance for any help or guidance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I’ve been reviewing standards to determine the equivalency between fireproofing thickness and the fire resistance rating.
This is for an industrial plant structure. I realize there are many factors but at some point I need a reference to determine what the rating is required to be. What is the process to determine what the required fire-resistance-rating of a component needs to be? In this case, it is for structural steel supporting columns of the open structure. The structure is composed of the main support columns and those supporting vessels, etc. The structure is about 5-6 levels tall. For simplicity I wanted to address the main columns starting on floor 1 where a pool fire may start. If I could find the standard / guidance for this then I can adapt for vessel supports, etc. I’ve been through calculations and information from API 2218 to determine the fireproofing thickness for a certain hour rating. However, I have yet to determine or find the hourly rating requirement. I’m assuming it will be 1-3 hours, for example, using API 2510 (LPG) as a guide with reference to UL 1709. It does specify a 1½ hour time rating which then gives a fireproofing thickness. Further, the fire protection requirements will come from a risk assessment of the system. I have to be able to give guidance to the risk team to help them come to suitable answers. What can I use to provide a best answer to an hourly rating, hopefully, chapter and verse? Thank you for your help in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In the 2015 International Building Code, Section 101.2:
The provisions of this code shall apply to the construction, alteration... of every building or structure in any appurtenances connected or attached to such buildings or structures. Exception: Detached one- and two-family dwellings and multiple single-family dwellings (townhouses) not more than three stories above grade plane in height with a separate means of egress, and their accessory structures not more than three stories above grade plane in height, shall comply with the International Residential Code. The debate: Why in the world are we going to allow them to label this design as residential? The townhouse exception is seemingly being used pretty loosely around the building department. In our college community, these structures meet the requirements of a townhouse, but with obvious intent to be student housing. After looking at code....I cant say I blame these designers. I see no way to combat their argument. They meet all the code requirements to avoid the extra costs of a 13R system and only have to add an additional layer of gyp to comply!? If I am missing something, please let me know! Maybe I just need to accept them as townhouse? It sure doesn't "feel" right. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are reviewing a proposed indoor play structure that is taller than 10-ft in height.
Do these structures need to be tested in accordance with ASTM E1354 and NFPA 701? This project is under the California Building Code. Within CBC Section 424 - Children's play structures,
The consultant proposes the following:
I don't see this proposed structure being compliant with ASTM E1354. Is there a significant increase in fire-hazard for playground areas and structures when they are above 10-ft in height, which requires the plastics to be compliant to E1354 (and textiles and plastic foams to NFPA 701)? Thank you all very much for your time and technical input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a highrise that exceeds 400-ft in height. The engineer designed a combination riser with all of the floor control assemblies coming from one riser, and not alternating as is in code.
I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing - any way around alternating the floor control assemblies, like upper-level pumps being considered separate systems or something of the like? Looking for better understanding here and being sure I'm not missing something bigger picture. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In the corridors of an apartment building (wrap) there are fire doors that are double-egress pairs that are left-hand-reverse by left-hand reverse which follows the natural traffic pattern within the corridor.  However, there are also several right-hand-reverse by right-hand-reverse in the same corridor.
Is there a requirement one way or another on which direction these are supposed to be? I informed the project manager that the egress needs to follow the natural traffic pattern. I was curious about the different flow patterns of the doors so I researched the code but was unable to locate anything in the code regarding whether it was code or not, except for the AHJ. The county where I live also agreed with me but if someone out there knows if this is code please respond. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 101, Section 39.2.2.2.2* Door Locking to Prevent Unwanted Entry. Where approved, doors, other than those complying with 39.2.11.2, shall be permitted to be locked to prevent unwanted entry provided that all of the following conditions are met:
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am designing a two-story dormitory Type II-B (under 2018 IBC) with CMU walls throughout.
The floor deck consists of 5-inch composite metal deck. The corridor walls and walls between suites must be 1/2-hour (due to sprinkler exception - NFPA 13 fully sprinklered). There is also a horizontal separation between the two floors of 1/2-hour minimum. There are two stair towers which are required to be 1-hour fire rated. With the walls of the stair tower requiring a higher rating than is required between the two floors, is the floor then required to also be 1 hour? In other words, can the floor penetrating a shaft enclosure (the walls of the stair shaft will sit on the metal deck) be of a lesser rating than the actual stair enclosure walls? From what I've read regarding continuity, I'd say the floor rating would have to be 1 hour; but, I'm not clear. Please help. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe If a material has a Class A flame spread rating, can I assume that it does not diminish the rating of a fire-rated assembly?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are working on a whole suite of fire protection systems designed for a new power plant. We'll be submitting the systems for owner and consultant's approval.
Are power utilities governed by the same jurisdiction (building code) as other properties? If not, how are they regulated in regards to determining the building code (ie: who dictates the applicable codes)? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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