Is it possible (maybe someone has encountered this already) to trigger a false alarm on a VESDA system or photoelectric smoke detector from refrigerant discharge mixture that contains both refrigerant and oil?

I'm concerned about the combination possibly affecting the fire alarm system.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I'm working on a 4-story multifamily structure.

The structure has one common entrance, but is comprised of four separate buildings on four separate lots, all on the same city block.

There is a fire separation between each building.

I've been trying to find code language indicating that each building is required by code to have a separate fire alarm system, but have not found anything remotely definitive.

Would appreciate code reference/help here.

Most likely going to request a variance to use one system across all four buildings, but for my personal edification would really appreciate an appropriate IBC or NFPA 72 code reference.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Is there a requirement to monitor a fire pump or fire protection sprinkler riser room's temperature with the fire alarm system?

It is clear from NFPA 72 that the device needs to be added to the fire alarm panel if it is present.

NFPA 13, 14, and 20 don't seem to have a need to monitor the room's temperature.

From NFPA 72 (2016 Edition): Section 17.16.5 Room Temperature Supervisory Signal - Initiating Device. A room temperature supervisory device shall indicate a decrease in room temperature to 40 degrees (4.4 C) and its restoration to above 40-degrees (4.4 C).

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We have a specification for a project that required calibrated smoke testing for a project that only has two new smoke detectors. 

Is there a code basis for this test, rather than just a can of smoke?

This project is under UFC 3-600-01 / UFGS spec 283176. The smoke detectors are new from the factory, clean, and I find this to be a relatively useless and expensive test. Would welcome any input/insight here.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I was wondering what systems others have found that will work for smoke detection in a challenging environment (e.g. large high bay environment with a test stand/dynamometer)?

We currently have an OSID dual-beam detector system but it has had many unwanted alarms that despite troubleshooting with the manufacturer, we cannot determine the cause.

I know more detail might be needed but just seeing what systems others have found that will work. A conventional beam detector will not work in this environment. A forklift and crane can be operated in the space with a large overhead door open.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

NFPA 101 has commentary that states that kitchen hood suppression systems are not required to activate public mode alarm for fire alarm systems.

Our Authority Having Jurisdiction stated that since the kitchen hood systems are provided in lieu of required sprinkler systems, then they are required to activate public mode alarm.

What is the generally accepted practice for kitchen hood suppression monitoring?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I have a fire wall on a two-story building providing separation for purposes of having two control areas.

There is a small roll-up door on the 2nd floor (in the main egress corridor of the building) in the firewall that can be opened to bring up items from the 1st floor to the 2nd through a lift from the 1st floor.

Is it code compliant to only have smoke detectors in the immediate area of the roll-up door (on each side) trigger the fire pin that closes the door, or, does every single smoke detector (it's a large building) need to trigger the roll-up (fire) door to close?

I am not finding a concrete code section (IBC or NFPA) that all detectors need to trigger the roll-up door to close.

Again, it's a very large building with many detectors. Thanks in advance for any answers/feedback.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

A project I'm on has a lobby area with a 35-foot tall ceiling next to the elevator door. 

NFPA 72-2010/2013 Section 17.7.3.1.3 and 17.7.3.1.4 allows a smoke detector within 60-inches of the top of each elevator door to protect the opening. This can be used for elevator recall.

In addition to this smoke detector, do I also need one at the ceiling (35-feet) for normal coverage?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Are manual pull stations required to have any specific level of illumination at all times provided by emergency lighting?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

For a smoke control stair pressurization system designed in accordance with IBC 909 and IMC 513, does the code require a duct smoke detector on the supply fan?

Does the installation of a smoke damper at the stairway boundary factor into this requirement? (i.e. IBC 717.3.3.2 requires a detector within 5 feet of a smoke damper). Normally this motorized smoke damper is closed and then automatically opens upon activation of a specific fire alarm signal.

NFPA 92 6.4.6.2 does require a duct detector on the stair pressurization supply fan; however, I'm unaware of a similar requirement in IBC/IMC. NFPA's intent is to detect smoke on the air supply and shut down the unit before smoke compromises the stairway.

For elevator hoistways that require smoke control, IBC 909.21.4.2 states to provide a detector. I would have expected a general statement in IBC 909.12 with the same intention as NFPA 92; however, I do not see a similar requirement in the IBC/IMC for stairways.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Is a two way communication system required when an elevator is installed (only for convenience) but is NOT required or designed to be part of the accessible means of egress - assuming none of the exceptions in 1009.8 apply?

Refer to CBC 1009.8: "A two-way communication system complying with Sections 1009.8.1 and 1009.8.2 shall be provided at the landing serving each elevator or bank of elevators on each accessible floor that is one or more stories above or below the level of exit discharge."

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

NFPA 72, 2016 Edition uses the phrase "2-hour fire-rated construction" in a few places; what does this refer to?

It's confusing to me since a variety of elements within the building could be 2-hour rated. For example, NFPA 72-2016 Section 24.3.13.7 states:

"Two-way in-building wired emergency communication systems shall have a pathway survivability of Level 2 or Level 3. Exception: Level 1 shall be permitted where the building is less than 2-hour fire-rated construction."

Buildings are not designated with a fire-rating, elements are. How do you interpret this?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

While working in a MEP/FP firm, we are expanding to do projects in other states and learning to understand the different state requirements for Fire Protection / Fire Alarm.

What is the best way to go about obtaining each state's requirements for what is required in an upfront submittal?

For example some states accept design drawings that only require denoting the hazard level whereas other require full design, calculations, and a written narrative. I understand and agree providing more detail is typically better; however, budgets can be significantly affected (negatively/positively) if only a hazard classification is required compared to a full design.

Besides prior knowledge from working in a different state or jurisdiction, what is the best approach in determining what is required?

Typically I start with searching what is required from the building code, but that does not always tell you what you need to submit for drawings, permit documentation, etc. It would be great to have a website that gives an example of what is an acceptable layout/design for each state.

Hoping to hear any suggestions / methods that others use to determine what is required.

Moderator Note: If there is significant interest in this topic, we'd be happy to open up a survey for areas that do require "full design" as an upfront submittal.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

What is a building owner's responsibility to provide sprinkler system plans and calculations to new tenants and/or inspectors?

Is there any responsibility to provide these?

Code sections would be appreciated, thanks.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Has anyone come across a dual riser (dual-feed) sprinkler system in an office tower, with only a single inspector's test?

What is the proper method of testing each flow switch?

In most cases, only the flow switch nearest the inspector's test will operate in a timely manner. Some inspectors will isolate and test, others believe the system should be tested under normal conditions with both control valves open.

Is the deficiency the lack of a second test connection, or that the flow switch doesn't operate within 90 seconds (or even 5 minutes)? Alternatively, is there no deficiency at all?

​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We are designing a clean agent system for electrical rooms located within a high-rise building. We are proposing having dedicated clean agent releasing control panels for the electrical rooms, and a separate building Fire Alarm Control Panel.

Is it mandatory to connect fire/smoke dampers (and other shutdown devices) in the electrical room with the clean agent releasing panel, or can these be connected to the building fire alarm system?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We are working on a mass notification system design. We have always called for any speaker/strobes in close proximity to the microphone to be shutoff during live announcements to prevent feedback.

Is there an actual recommended distance away that all speakers located within this distance should be shutoff? 

​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Does anyone have experience installing a heat detector in a cold environment (~ -40 degrees C or F)?

I'm thinking a rate-of-rise detector would probably be the right type based on what I've read but having problems finding a cut-sheet that supports that operating environment. Normally this type of space would get a dry sprinkler but some things have led to trying to think "outside the box" for this project. Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Under NFPA 72 fire alarm manual pull stations are required on both sides of grouped openings over 40-feet in width and within 5-feet of each side of the grouped openings.

What about grouped loading bays or loading docks? Are manual pull stations required on each side of grouped overhead doors?

​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Any good software resources out there for predicting fire alarm signal audibility across walls and doors based on their attenuation values and ambient sound pressure?

​Editors Note: Another fire alarm question today, love it. Keep 'em coming! You can post any fire protection-related question using the "Submit Your Question" link below at any time.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

As a consultant, what level of detail do you go into for the line voltage (120v) fire alarm plans and wiring?

The line voltage is affected by loads / fuse sizes and affects the disconnect switch size. I'm wondering about the level of detail that an engineer should be showing versus leaving the sizing to the fire alarm and electrical contractors based on their specific system layout requirements.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We have an auditorium project with a walkway that is constructed beside the seating area at the first and second levels. The second level has been provided with beam-type smoke detectors. 

There is a suspended ceiling below the walkway which is approximately 6-feet (2 m) from the wall. Do we need smoke detectors below this suspended ceiling?

The design currently has smoke detectors only inside ceiling void spaces below the walkway - is this in compliance with NFPA 72?

The fire alarm contractor is arguing that if a fire originates at the floor level below this walkway, it will be easily detected by the beam detector at the second level due to the smoke buoyancy. 
​
​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Have a four-story project that is under 2015 IBC and NFPA 101. NFPA 101, for fully-sprinklered buildings with accessible floor levels (floors 2-4 included) - designates the entire floor level as accessible and an area of refuge. Reference NFPA 101 7.2.12 and NFPA 72 24.10.

Along with that designation includes a requirement for a two-way communication system generally next to the elevator bank for the building. There's not much detail out of NFPA 101, and I'm finding very few people are familiar with these systems.

Who typically specifies and provides details/locations on these systems?

It is not tied into the fire alarm system - yet is related to life safety - so we're getting some feedback that these systems should be shown on fire alarm plans. However, the fire alarm subcontractors have nothing to do with these systems. Low voltage / specialty consultants are stating that the systems are code mandated and aren't looking to coordinate these locations with fire marshals and plan review.

It's not a cost item and no one is pointing fingers - but I am trying to understand going forward where these systems are typically shown on plans and who should be specifying them? 

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Are initiation devices (smoke detectors, manual pull stations, duct detectors) required to have individual labels on them showing the device address?

The project in question is military and is also subject to UFC requirements.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe