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I'm dealing with a situation now where we are completely renovating an old mixed-occupancy property and the plans were drawn and approved with a 2-inch incoming service for both the residential domestic water and the fire suppression system.
Now that the fire sprinkler contractor is ready to install, and the fire chief reviewed plans for the 2-inch pipe, the fire chief says he won't approve it unless we install a minimum of 4-inch incoming pipe from the main. The architect says the city already approved the pipe size. Fire Marshal says no. Anyone have code/insight to support either way? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Are you required to to laterally brace a pipe rise over 4-ft long to an upright, even though there is a horizontal break with a hanger? Is the vertical rise of pipe, before the break, considered a sprig or is the vertical pipe that feeds directly to the head considered the sprig?  Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
I am designing a fire sprinkler system for a 5-story residential apartment building.
The building is Type V wood truss construction with 16" open web wood trusses. The floor/ceiling assembly is a one-hour fire-resistance-rated construction (UL listed). Sheetrock is attached directly to the bottom of the joists with wood subfloor on top. The ceiling is inaccessible (concealed). The question of sprinkler above the ceiling has come up. I don't see a need for them. There is 6" sound batting above the ceiling. The Fire Marshal does not allow NFPA 13R design. It an NFPA 13 design. Is this space required to be protected? Any input would be helpful, thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Looking for some insight on a project I'm reviewing.
We have an 1,800,000 sqft storage occupancy with business and assembly mixed in. It has a 2-story open foyer main entrance. The graphic annunciator and fire alarm panel are in the same location. My problem is the 2-story space is all glass around the means of egress. How would sprinkler protection and using the the graphic annunciator work in a all-glass space? I'm looking to get sprinkler coverage at the glass window, which are floor-to-ceiling. Also, the outside wall in the corner of the building is all glass too. Looking for insight on how to approach this and any concerns you might have regarding an all-glass space. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We want to extend a heartfelt way-to-go to all those who took the P.E. Exam this past week! Preparing and taking the exam itself is no small feat, regardless of the outcome. We now have our final 2022 PE Prep Series Leaders - these are the folks who trudged through week-in and week-out and consistently topped the charts. Here are the Top Ten Finalists for 2022:  2022 PE PREP SERIES FINALISTS
The PE Prep Series is a 20-week series of exams that simulates the Fire Protection PE Exam. Users are challenged in a weekly online exam that simulates the pace and style of the questions on the Fire Protection PE Exam.
Congratulations to our top winners from this year's series! Each of the top ten finalists will receive a plaque commemorating their hard work this summer. To see our full standings for the 2022 season, visit our PE Prep Series page here: PE Prep Series. I'm working on the renovation of an existing building with waffle slab construction.
As part of our scope, the client would like to sprinkler the space, and the architect was asking if we would be required to provide sprinkler coverage in each of the waffle slab pockets if they left the structure exposed. Originally I thought we could treat the space as ceiling pockets, but since it's not an "architectural feature" I'm thinking the exceptions in NFPA 13 11.2.7.2 would not apply. The pockets created are roughly 3-ft x 3-ft wide, and the structure is 2-ft deep. If we're using upright sprinklers, and they need to be installed 1"-12" below the "ceiling" (in this case, the slab?), taking a look through the obstruction/positioning tables, it seems like the structure would create obstructions and a head would be needed in every compartment? Agree? Disagree? Any insight would be appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a 2 story hotel that is being converted to 13R apartments. The structure has filled block walls, and concrete slab ceilings on both floors. My question is about the seismic bracing. I have cored 5-inch holes for the 3-inch main that is to run the length of the building, through the block walls. The block walls are 12'-0 apart. Can the block walls be counted as lateral sway bracing? Or, do I need to place braces as usual, based on pipe weight?  Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
In the 2016 edition of the NFPA 13, Table 13.2.1 in the part of "Group A Plastic Storage", in the paragraph of "Exposed", there is an option of "Expanded" and an option of "Unexpanded and Expanded".
Link: https://link.nfpa.org/free-access/publications/13/2016 There are two storage arrangements that end up with OH2 with +1 Level of In-Rack (all other criteria are the same):
It seems that the second option will always be better than the first option in reference to the permitted storage height. Why have the maximum 10 feet storage option if you can always go for the maximum 12 feet storage option? (Even for a building that is lower than 20 feet, you can go according to the option of storage of 12 feet in a building that is up to 32 feet) Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe The University of Maryland is considering opening up an online, ABET-Accredited Bachelor of Science in Fire Protection Engineering program. This would be an online-only Bachelors program that would permit transfers-in only (core courses and labs would be completed prior).
I've ran into many people who do not yet have an ABET-Accredited Engineering degree who want to seek out PE licensure, and in order to do so they've asked and seek out other bachelors engineering programs (such as mechanical engineering) in order to meet that requirement. If you might be interested in attending a program like this, the university wants to hear from you specifically. (survey link: go.umd.edu/fpeonline) Do you see a need or an audience for something like this? Is this something that is needed for the industry? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are designing a foam system (not a water spray) protecting an industrial facility.
Two systems are being designed, and they're located side-by-side. The two systems are not currently interconnected, but I believe they should be and balanced. We're getting some pushback on our approach and I'm interested in other opinions here. Do the system volumes need to be combined and compared to the available water supply, or can each system be calculated separately (but still flowing at the same time without balancing)? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
In the fire protection field many times (perhaps most of the time) a consulting engineer's set of plans and specifications that go out for bid are not the shop drawing/install drawing set and don't contain a full sprinkler & pipe layout.
What do you call these sets of plans? Design-Build Spec? Performance Spec? Delegated Design? Just curious what terminology you use to describe this. Also wonder if it's possibly regional too. [Moderator's Note: we've set this up as a poll. Comment below if there are options we should add. By voting you can see the results. Thanks!] ​
​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
I am reviewing a set of fire suppression drawings from another engineer that is working as a sub to the sprinkler contractor. We created an outline of the fire suppression requirements (a performance spec) and then the contractor hired another engineer to finish the design. The building is a 6-story wood frame residential project. There are two exit stairs each with a Class I Standpipe and 2.5-inch fire hose connection (FHC). The building is an 'L' shape and the total travel distance from one FHC to the other is approximately 300-ft (91m). There is a 2-hour fire-resistance-rated wall part way along the corridor (124-ft from one FHC, 174-ft from the other). The contractor's engineer is calling for an additional third standpipe next to the 2-hour rated wall - is this required or not? I'm not sure how to interpret Sections 7.3.2.3 and 7.3.2.3.1 of NFPA-14. The project is in BC, Canada; and we're using NFPA-14 (2013 Edition). I have attached a markup of a typical floor plan.  Thanks in advance!
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe With electric vehicles taking the world by storm, how do you anticipate killing fires on these vehicles?
What elements are crucial on the firefighting side? Battery explosions can happen anytime and anywhere, but what measures should be considered? A wide question I know, but this is something I'm battling with as an AHJ. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm working on a new ammunition manufacturing facility. NFPA 13 (2019 edition) doesn't seem to provide much guidance for this type of building.
Cartoned small arms and shotgun ammo is classified as a Class IV commodity, but it doesn't address the manufacturing. Also, Ammunition Components (bulk primers and powder) is in the list of items that's specifically not addressed by Section 20.4. NFPA 495 seems like the appropriate standard for other items regarding explosives, but it doesn't provide fire sprinkler guidance. Does anyone know where to find the appropriate fire sprinkler design criteria for this type of facility? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe [Moderator's note: since the first lithium battery question a few weeks ago, we've been flooded with more questions on the topic. We'll do our best to not overburden everyone here but still keep with the topics people are asking. As always, we're thankful for you all!]
Could anybody point out some publications that deal specifically with the ventilation of lithium-ion batteries during off-gassing and how the ventilation should be controlled? I am familiar with FM Global Loss Prevention Datasheet, and NFPA 855, and I went through some publications such as FIA, however from those I only get that there should be sufficient ventilation. I am more interested in the off-gas detection part of the design. The ventilation should be turned on and ESS turned off at the first sign of explosive gasses, but what gasses should those be? H2, CO, C2H4, CH4, or all mentioned in a combination? Not sure how to proceed in this. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're being asked to design a fire sprinkler system to protect a golf cart storage area.
We're debating whether the protection should be Ordinary Group I or Ordinary Group II hazard. NFPA 13 (2019) calls both auto parking & showrooms a Group I hazard, and the 2022 edition continues to call showrooms a Group I, but calls auto parking garages a Group II. What do you all think? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am an architect working on a project where we're construction an air-supported structure (dome) for a school district to use as their physical education gymnasium.
The fire marshal here wants the dome fire suppressed. I told him we cannot hang water piping from the dome. What are the options to provide fire suppression inside of a air supported structure that is 180 x 135 feet? Are there alternatives, like water cannons along the perimeter? If so, what kind of costs might that suggest? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are converting an existing dry system to a wet-pipe system. The entire non-conditioned area where the system was located in is being converted to fully-conditioned.
When running the new hydraulic calculations, would you keep the 100 C-Factor or would you increase it to 120 for wet pipe? For reference the dry system has been in place for approximately 30 years. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe While doing a sprinkler inspection it was found that the main check valve for the system failed. The system was installed before backflows were mandated on sprinkler systems.
I know that a backflow preventer needs to be installed in its place, but have been unable to find any code that says it does. Anyone able to help? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can existing sprinkler heads that are no longer provide a code required purpose remain in place if the situation changes back in the future?
Situation #1: A mall tenant space that is non-combustible construction with sprinklers at the deck, then a ceiling is added with pendents for new tenant. Can the uprights remain in place for the likelihood of a future tenant that removes the drop ceiling and pendents? Situation #2: A nursing home dwelling unit closet with doors that had a pendent sprinkler. Now doors are removed and a built in shelving unit was installed with just a 3-inch gap between the top of the unit and the head. Can the head remain in place even though its not technically needed, for a time in the future when the shelfing unit may be removed and the space turned back to a closet? Currently a customer is being cited by the state saying this situation needs to be corrected. Would the heads all have to be removed? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are bidding a job that has an alternate to install a wood panel ceiling in lieu of the ACT shown on the drawings.
The drawings reference the need to install custom-color ceiling plates but no mention is made of the need to install upright heads above the ceiling. Is upright protection required above a wood ceiling or can wood ceilings have a flame spread rating that will preclude the need for upright protection above the ceiling? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Want to send a shout-out to all contributors for September, including our top ten for the month:
Looking for some guidance on sprinkler layout on eaves and hips. When laying out an attic, if you design with sprinklers directly under the hips, and want to stay below the 8' spacing against the slope, how does the layout work? One direction of the roof would be 4' x 7'-6" max, but the other direction of the roof would be reversed, creating a non-linear coverage area. All of it seems strange to begin with and wondering if I'm overthinking this. We typically don't design with sprinklers directly under the hips, but I'm wondering if we are over designing with too many sprinklers, etc.  Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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