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A FORUM FOR FIRE PROTECTION QUESTIONS & PE EXAM PROBLEMS | SUBSCRIBE NOW

Does IFC Chapter 53 & 58 Apply to Natural Gas?

9/30/2020

3 Comments

 
Has anyone seen the International Fire Code Chapters 53 and 58 applied to natural gas installations in addition to the Fuel Gas Code?

IFC Chapter 53 is Compressed Gasses and Chapter 58 is Flammable Gasses.

It's technically a gas at standard temperature and pressure with a boiling point below 68 deg F at 14.7 psi and flammable range of 5% to 17% by volume in air. Natural gas appears to be subject to these requirements, but I've never seen it this way in practice. 

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

PE Problem #59

9/30/2020

6 Comments

 
​An elementary school must perform a fire drill at least:
a. Once per month
b. Once every other month
c. Once per semester (twice each year)
d. Once per year

Solution | Posted 10/01/20

Read More
6 Comments

Causes for Failed Backflow Forward-Flow Test?

9/29/2020

25 Comments

 
Recently had a job with a wet-pipe fire sprinkler system (smaller project) that has a 6-inch double check backflow. The area static and residual pressures are pretty consistent (had a flow test of ~40 psi static and ~38 psi residual at 1,300 gpm).

We ran a forward-flow test through the backflow preventer, needing a minimum flow of about 800 gpm, which includes the hose allowances for the project (no standpipes or interior hose connections).

The most flow we could get was about 450 gpm, even with three 2-1/2" hose outlets completely wide open. The static pressure following the test at the riser was about 40 psi. We used three 100 ft, 2-1/2" hoses with a 1-3/4" smooth nozzle and diffusers at the end of each hose, measuring about 3 psi pitot on each and full flow (which equates to roughly 450 gpm).

Do you have any tips or advice in why we were not able to get enough flow through the backflow, or where to start to troubleshoot?

Thanks in advance!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
25 Comments

PE Problem #58

9/29/2020

3 Comments

 
The pressure gradient that causes a liquid to move through the intake line to the pump impeller is:
a. total static head
b. net positive suction head
c. net discharge head
d. rated head

Solution | Posted 09/30/20

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3 Comments

Options for 60-degree Sprinkler Main Angle?

9/28/2020

10 Comments

 
Is it possible to make a 60-degree angle to a main pipe using grooved pipe and fittings? 

If I'm correct there is only 90-degree, 45-degree, and 11.5 degree angles normally available.

If a 60-degree angle is impossible, is there a way to use welded parts to make this angle happen? What's my best option here?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

PE Prep Series: Week 17 Leaderboard

9/28/2020

 
Last week was week sixteen of our 2020 PE Prep Series - it's 20-weeks worth of mini Fire Protection PE Exams. 

Week 17, #1 had a question that required calculation of an effective heat transfer coefficient. Technically this doesn't show up in any reference material, so points were rewarded to each examinee on this question. It's been revised for future versions.


Each week we'll post the leaderboard here with the results of that week's exams. To see full leadership board and more details, visit the PE Prep Series page here
Picture
The Leaderboard lists the top total scores for the most recent three weekly exams for PE Prep Series participants. 
See the entire scoreboard here.
Picture
Want to join in? It's not too late - the PE Prep Series is the ultimate PE Prep tool. It's a series of 1-hour, 10-question simulated PE Exams offered weekly with solutions immediately following each exam. Learn more here. ​​​​Every week of the series is retroactive so you can still test yourself with past week exams.

PE Problem #57

9/28/2020

4 Comments

 
​Determine the visibility (in meters) for a light reflecting exit sign with smoke that is produced by pyrolysis of plastic. Assume the smoke has a mass concentration of 0.09 grams per cubic meter.
a. 4.4 m
b. 7.6 m
c. 11.7 m
d. 20.2 m

Solution | Posted 09/29/20

Read More
4 Comments

Hydraulic Calculations with Two Water Supplies?

9/25/2020

11 Comments

 
How do I properly perform hydraulic calculations for a sprinkler system with two water sources?

The system we have is supplied by two independent street mains. Each service has a slightly different static and residual pressure. The calculations need to show both supplies. Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
11 Comments

PE Problem #56

9/25/2020

5 Comments

 
A high-rise building is to use a pressurized tank (half air-half water) to supply automatic sprinkler systems. If hydraulic calculations determine that 55 psi is required to supply the sprinkler system, what tank pressure is required?
a. 55 psi
b. 95 psi
c. 125 psi
d. 140 psi

Solution | Posted 09/28/20

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5 Comments

Ammonia Refrigeration Req' Explosion Control?

9/24/2020

3 Comments

 
We have a closed ammonia refrigeration system for a large cooler/freezer. The refrigeration equipment is located in a separate mechanical room. Total amount of ammonia is less than 10,000 lbs.

My question is explosion control per Section 911 of the International Fire Code required for the refrigeration mechanical room?

I am reading different interpretations on whether ammonia is considered a flammable gas, most say it is technically not a flammable gas but can burn and/or explode.

I'm interested in hearing everyone's take. Thanks.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

PE Problem #55

9/24/2020

4 Comments

 
A stair is 59 inches wide, with a handrail on one side with a centerline of 1.5 inches from the edge of the stair. The other side of the stair is a wall. For the purposes of calculating a speci􀃎c 􀃏ow, what is the effective width of the stair?
a. 47 in.
b. 48 in.
c. 53 in.
d. 59 in.

Solution | Posted 09/25/20

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4 Comments

Good Fire Plan Review Tools & Checklists?

9/23/2020

13 Comments

 
I'm an AHJ and I know many plan reviewers and inspectors in my area are new to the trade. 

Does anyone have recommendation(s) for good plan review checklists or tools for plan review that would be helpful to rookie and intermediate-level plan reviewers?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
13 Comments

PE Problem #54

9/23/2020

5 Comments

 
​A continuous membrane with a fire protection rating constructed to limit the spread of fire is which of the following?
a. smoke partition
b. fire compartment
c. fire barrier
d. proscenium wall

Solution | Posted 09/24/20

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5 Comments

Life Expectancy of Wet and Dry Sprinkler System?

9/22/2020

2 Comments

 
What is the average life expectancy of a wet and dry fire sprinkler system?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments

PE Problem #53

9/22/2020

5 Comments

 
Fire sprinkler system design has been based upon all of the following except:
a. Empirical flow and pressure loss calculations
b. Application of experienced judgement and reasoning
c. Mathematical suppression modeling
d. Evolutionary changes based on fire loss

Solution | Posted 09/23/20

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5 Comments

Why Do Fire Storage Tanks Require 8-Hour Refill?

9/21/2020

4 Comments

 
NFPA 22, 2018 Edition regarding filling requirement and duration - 

Section 4.2.1.4. states "The water supply shall be capable of filling the minimum required fire protection volume within the tank in a maximum of 8 hours" and at the same time Section 14.4.3 states "The tank shall be kept filled, and the water level shall never be more than 4 in. (102 mm) below the designated fire service level."

If I understand correctly, as soon as the water goes below 4-inches from the normal filled level in the tank (HHL), the makeup water supply should be starting to replenish and the pipe sizes should be provided in such a way that the tank can be filled within 8-hours.

In a fire, as the water is going down, the tank will always start full.

What is the case where the tank would be emptied out (except maintenance) and need to be refilled within 8-hours?

What if we store water in two tanks to allow maintenance - would we not need to meet this 8-hour requirement?

I'm unsure of how these two requirements work together. Appreciate any feedback.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

PE Prep Series: Week 16 Leaderboard

9/21/2020

 
Last week was week sixteen of our 2020 PE Prep Series - it's 20-weeks worth of mini Fire Protection PE Exams. 

Each week we'll post the leaderboard here with the results of that week's exams. To see full leadership board and more details, visit the PE Prep Series page here
Picture
he Leaderboard lists the top total scores for the most recent three weekly exams for PE Prep Series participants. 
See the entire scoreboard here.

​
Picture
Want to join in? It's not too late - the PE Prep Series is the ultimate PE Prep tool. It's a series of 1-hour, 10-question simulated PE Exams offered weekly with solutions immediately following each exam. Learn more here. ​​​​Every week of the series is retroactive so you can still test yourself with past week exams.

PE Problem #52

9/21/2020

5 Comments

 
If, during a fire, a total occupant load of 185 people are exiting through a building's main entry (a 7-foot double door with an effective width of 6.5 ft) and the density near the main exit door results in about 0.25 persons/sqft, the time (in minutes) it would take for all of these occupants to exit the main doors is most
nearly:
a. 1.3 min
b. 1.4 min
c. 2.0 min
d. 5.7 min

Solution | Posted 09/22/20

Read More
5 Comments

Hydraulic Calculations for Fire Pumps in Parallel?

9/18/2020

6 Comments

 
I have a job where there are two existing diesel fire pumps that serve an existing warehouse (2 million sq. ft +).

The building is surrounded by an existing 12" underground fire supply loop. The two diesel pumps serve the space.

According to the property manager the system operate as follows:
(1) Pressure is maintained at 160-175 psi.
(2) Below 160 psi the jockey pump turns on to maintain 160-175 psi.
(3) Fire Pump #1 turns on when pressure drops below 150 psi to maintain 175 PSI. (Fire Pump - Static: 165 PSI ; Residual: 134 PSI @ 2000 gpm).
(4) Fire Pump #2 turns on when pressure drops below 140 psi to maintain 175 PSI (Fire Pump - Static: 190 PSI; Residual: 174 PSI @ 2000 gpm).

The pumps are provided by a municipal supply and a back-up private lake dedicated for the fire service.

The pumps are in parallel, so you would add the flows. And to my knowledge the higher pressure would overtake the smaller pressure.

My question is, how do you determine how to calculate the system hydraulically?

If I only use fire pump #1 for water supply, it will not be an accurate representation on how the system operates. In this case it also is very difficult to get the system to work hydraulically off of one fire pump.

I appreciate any input!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

PE Problem #51

9/18/2020

6 Comments

 
The static discharge head is equal to the sum of all of the following except:
a. total static head
b. discharge system losses
c. suction system losses
​d. net suction head

Solution | Posted 09/21/20

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6 Comments

Use Existing Fire Pump for Higher Foam Demand?

9/17/2020

7 Comments

 
We have scenario where we are using foam system under NFPA 11 for a floating roof tank with Crude Oil.

Based on our previous calculation for a prior tank the fire water demand is 1,926 gpm so we have existing 2,000 gpm pump to be able to supply the required flow. But an additional Crude Oil tank has been added and we have run our new hydraulic calculations and we come up with 4,496 gpm new flow requirement.

Is there a way we can still use the existing fire pump?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
7 Comments

PE Problem #50

9/17/2020

6 Comments

 
Use Alpert's Correlation to determine the maximum temperature (in degrees Celsius) of a ceiling jet at a point 1.3 meters (horizontally) from a 1.8 MW fire which burns within a 2.2 m tall room. Assume an ambient temperature of 22 deg C.
a. 25 deg C
b. 78 deg C
c. 326 deg C
d. 384 deg C

Solution | Posted 09/18/20

Read More
6 Comments

Add Fire Retardant Coat/Paint to Nix Sprinklers?

9/16/2020

4 Comments

 
We have an outdoor wooden canopy overhanging over a building entrance with the following dimensions: 45'-6" x 13'-0". The canopy has an existing wet pipe sprinkler system utilizing water/glycol mix. The building is in an area where winter temperatures can go below 0 deg F (-18 deg C).

Given the new NFPA requirement of reduced glycol mix ratio and hence the existing sprinkler system is no longer compliant with NFPA and requires to be replaced.

My question is, is it feasible and compliant to have the wooden canopy treated with fire retardant NFPA 703 approved coating/painting and hence the canopy can be considered non-combustible or at least limited-combustible eliminating the requirement to install a sprinkler system under NFPA 13 section 9.2.3?

I appreciate your feedback. Thanks

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

PE Problem #49

9/16/2020

7 Comments

 
The activation time (in seconds) of a standard response (RTI of 85 m^1/2s^1/2), Ordinary Temperature (65 deg C) heat detector within a room that has an initial temperature of 22 deg C and exposed to a ceiling plume at 78 deg C traveling at 2.3 m/s is most nearly what time?
a. 10 s
b. 36 s
c. 54 s
d. 82 s

Solution | Posted 09/17/20

Read More
7 Comments

Sprinklers Req'd for Wood Shop Training Facility?

9/15/2020

5 Comments

 
Working with a 10,500 square foot building that is primarily a wood shop (as the AHJ, fire official). In this building they basically saw cut raw lumber on a large gasoline powered (vented) saw mill inside of the building (this is an issue I question as well). This is a two-part question, at the least!

The occupants claim they are a E occupancy (based on the 2012 IBC/IFC) and that they fall under the 12,000 square feet for automatic fire sprinkler requirements in chapter 9.

I look at this as a woodworking facility over 2,500 square feet per 903.2.4.1, that would require automatic fire sprinklers.

The organization is not a school, but rather consider themselves as a vocational school that serves students working on their G.E.D. along with troubled students needing extra guidance, and they pay these students. They teach life/work skills and help with job placement.

I feel this would either fall under a B-Occupancy for training and skill development not within a school or academic program, or an F-1.

Thoughts on this part?

Next, even if we would call this an E-Occupancy, would sprinklers be required since it is under the 12,000 square feet? I would think yes because of section 903.2.4.1, however the organization says no because they believe they are an E.

​I know where I am leaning on this issue, but would welcome any other input. ​I am all about helping this organization out, but also need to take safety and property preservation into account. This place keeps me up at night with all of the students and hazards present.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
5 Comments
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