Subject: Two story convenience opening separation from corridors.

NFPA 101 (2021 edition) Section 8.6.9.1 permits convenience openings for two adjacent stories. But, these convenience openings shall be separated from corridors (requirement #3) and further states that separation should be by a smoke partition (requirement #5).

How do you define a corridor versus an open floor area or lobby per NFPA 101, since no definitions are given within the code?

Jurisdiction is required to follow NFPA 1 and NFPA 101.

For example, a building has a large assembly space on the second floor. All doors from the assembly space lead to a ~40'-0" wide circulation space (+200'-0" long in the other direction). To reach the building exit stair, occupants from the assembly room must traverse the 40'-0" wide circulation space. Within this circulation space is a ~20'-0" x 40'-0" vertical opening that connects the 1st and 2nd floor.

Should this circulation space be considered a corridor, and should the vertical opening be prohibited from being classified as a convenience opening without a smoke partition separating from the corridor?

Or is the 2nd floor space to be considered an open floor area, with exits immediately accessible in different directions (NFPA 101 7.5.1.1.1) and not consider it a corridor?

​The width of the circulation space seems too wide to be defined as a corridor but NFPA only provides minimum width requirements for corridors, and no maximum width for a space to be considered a corridor as far as I can determine.

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I work for a local fire department that does plan reviews for fire protection systems. We are reviewing a project that requires 40,000 gallons of stored water. They are proposing using multiple fire water tanks and eight 5,000-gallon tanks.

While NFPA does not restrict the use of multiple tanks, I would like to see fewer tanks than eight. I am more inclined to allow two separate tanks at the most.

However, I wanted to see what others thought and if there was a standard understanding or practice to number or size of tanks to the total needed water demand. Thanks for any help.

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A 40,000 sqft, F-2 Occupancy, single-story metalworking facility of IBC Type II-B construction is not required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection due to the lack of sufficient combustible loading in the IBC.

However, the same 40,000 sqft single-story facility of IBC Type II-B construction of a Mercantile (M) occupancy must be provided with automatic sprinkler protection due to sufficient combustible loading to warrant sprinkler protection.

Unfortunately, IFC Appendix B does not distinguish between these different occupancies with regard to Fire Flow except that a 75% reduction is offered to the M occupancy for sprinkler protection.

Since no sprinkler protection is required for the F-2 occupancy, can't it be treated the same as occupancies requiring sprinkler protection and provided with sprinkler protection - allowing for the 75% reduction?

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Suppose on-site water storage for firefighting is required, and an existing tank is on-site sized for the existing building.

Can I add a second tank on site (not connected to the first tank) and just size it for the additional water required for the second building?

Ex. A larger building requires a 10,000-gallon tank, while a smaller building requires a 5,000-gallon tank. Can I just install one new 5,000-gallon tank (10,000-5,000 = 5,000 gallons)?

Or would the tanks need to be connected so there is no shortage of water?

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Long question - in essence - is Fire Flow considered on top of a flowing sprinkler system?

Recently there was a great discussion on the forum here about whether a water storage tank size needs to include Fire Flow in addition to sprinkler demand. There were some great points made (www.meyerfire.com/daily/must-water-storage-tank-include-site-fire-flow).

I have just come upon a project where we do have a municipal water supply, but it tapers off very steeply. The flow test in the area was 52 psi static, 25 psi residual at only 650 gpm. This would put the available Fire Flow around 712 gpm at 20 psi for the site.

In order for the AHJ to reduce the required Fire Flow under the IFC, the building(s) nearby need to be sprinkler-protected. This would bring down the Fire Flow requirement to 1,000 gpm at 2-hours, for this setup. The sprinkler system isn't designed yet, but we'd estimate around a 550-650 gpm demand with a fire pump. This gets really interesting based on the prior discussion.


When the fire department shows up on site during a fire, and then starts to pull water, is this Fire Flow in addition to the flowing sprinkler system, or considered separate?

In other words, is the 1,000 gpm (for 2 hours) for Fire Flow on top of a 600 gpm demand for sprinkler (for 60 minutes)?


If the water storage tank needs to meet the demand of the sprinkler and Fire Flow separately, then the calculation comes down to ~300 gpm needed to fill the shortage on Fire Flow, multiplied by 2-hours. That's a tank in the ballpark of 35-40,000 gallons.

If the water storage tank needs to meet the Fire Flow as the sprinkler system is operating, that's a flow of around 1,600 gpm to fight a fire. That's as much as ~900 gpm x 2 hours to a ballpark of 100-115,000 gallons. Huge difference.


I can't find any relevant code that stipulates one way or another, only that the tank must supply the sources it is connected to. 

Am I looking at this correctly? I see sprinkler and Fire Flow needing to be met by a tank that they're connected to, but is the Fire Flow robbing the sprinkler system, or vice-versa?

Thanks so much for reading. This is obviously TLTHFR (too long, thank-you-for-reading).

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When a building is 84-feet from an existing public fire hydrant located across a 2-lane 45mph roadway, can we assume it is standard practice to use it in an event of a fire?

Or would the owner be required to add a personal-use fire hydrant or water storage device on their side of the road?

In the latter case, how far would the fire hydrant have to be placed from the building?​

Thanks in advance.

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We have a proposed fire hydrant in our county that will have pressures ranging from 210 psi to 250 psi according to the engineer designing the underground line.

My Chief and I are looking into this in regards to NFPA standards/applicable code, and are concerned that the high pressure could injure firefighters or damage equipment.

Is there a maximum permitted pressure that a hydrant can be, per code?

Thanks in advance.

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Is there an applicable code reference for minimum distance between a fire hydrant and a transformer?

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Hoping to gain some insight from industry here:

Working on preliminary layouts for a large industrial facility that is comprised of tilt-up precast single-story building (~40' tall) and flanked on one side by an equipment yard (think generators, switchgears, mechanical equipment) configured in two levels (think mezzanine).

Question is on fire access to the main building: The mechanical yard runs the entire length of the main building and we are considering fire access as the depth of the equipment yard is ~100ft with a limited service corridor separating the two (~12ft) for maintenance and building egress. There will be periodic gaps (~6ft wide) between equipment located at grade, however the access will require passing through the yard on foot (underneath the second level of equipment on the mezzanine) to gain access to the main building.

Per IFC 503.1.1 our fire access roads must provide continuous access to the exterior within 150ft of the building.

Would passing "through" the mechanical yard at grade meet this requirement?

Would placing "driveways" through the yard to allow a truck to pull closer to the building (but being parked underneath the second level) be kosher?

A similar question exists regarding having hydrants located directly under the second level near the extents of the yard, is this OK?

Have been unsuccessful at locating any code references regarding fire access through a "tunnel" if you would. An AHJ perspective would be much appreciated, along with any other thoughts/feedback.

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We are designing a new/upgraded fire alarm system for a remodeled highrise (our local codes are 2012 IBC and 2018 NFPA 1) and there is a detached walk-in cooler for the restaurant, located relatively close to the main building (~3' away from the nearest exterior wall).

We received an RFI asking whether fire alarm devices are required in the coolers - good question(!). I'm not able to find anything specific for fire alarm devices in detached storage buildings.

Do you see fire alarm required for the detached cooler?

If anyone has any insight (or NFPA references that I've overlooked), it would be very much appreciated!

Thanks for a great community!

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What are you all seeing or specifying for firestop identification labels?

Masterspec calls for metal or plastic labels.

I found an FCIA (Firestop Contractors International Association) article that speaks to stamped metal tags or ceramic fiber tags (Google is failing on what that actually would look like).

It seems the firestop manufacturers all have stickers.

I have always specified the metal or plastic labels using the Masterspec language. If I get anything at all installed, it is the manufacturer stickers. I have concerns about the longevity of the stickers.

I’m curious what others are calling for, what your AHJs or clients ask for, and what is actually getting installed. Thanks in advance.

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We have an project serving the textile manufacturing industry. We are looking to install a fire hydrant (500 gpm minimum) in proximity to the building.

What is the minimum and maximum distance these hydrant(s) should be located from the building?

The project is not under IBC / IFC criteria, only subject to the NFPA series of standards. 

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I am new to the fire engineering fraternity and I'm currently working with a small office building. It's a single-story, 5,800 sqft office use with a small battery room and small server room.

IBC (2021) Section 906 and IFC start with "where required". I cannot find where extinguishers are required for business occupancy.

What is the code path to determine if fire extinguishers are required?

Does the IBC/IFC not address where extinguishers are required?

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Is there a standard spacing for private fire hydrants?

No applicable code for this project, but looking for guidance in what would be common under NFPA 24, NFPA 1 / 101, and/or the IBC. Thanks in advance.

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NFPA 1 Section 13.2.2.2, a Class I standpipe is not required in buildings less than three stories or less than 50-ft high above grade. 

If we have a huge industrial complex or storage occupancy of 60,000 square meters (645,000 sqft), should we not require a standpipe system if it is only one floor above grade with a total height of 40-feet? Looks strange to me.

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