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Is Blazemaster Permitted Underground?

8/31/2021

8 Comments

 
Working on a new resort hotel and it is necessary to have buried pipe before and after a sprinkler control valve.

Is it allowable by code to substitute C900 PVC pipe with Tyco Blazemaster pipe?

According to the installation guide of Tyco Blazemaster it could be installed underground.

If not, which material can be installed instead of C900 because 4-inch is the smallest size for this pipe?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

Residential vs. Quick Response for a Hotel?

8/30/2021

15 Comments

 
I'm working on an NFPA 13 three-story hotel.

Code permits residential sprinklers or quick-response sprinklers in the dwelling units and adjoining corridors.

Is there any advantage to using one type of sprinkler over the other?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
15 Comments

How to Layout Sprinklers Near Car Stackers?

8/27/2021

6 Comments

 
We have five, two-car-high stacking units in a basement area. We have a smoke exhaust system but also need an active protection system.

NFPA 13 categorizes such arrangements as Extra Hazard (Group 2).

Does anyone have experience of what would be an acceptable layout around these areas as the NFPA 13 guidance is not extensive?
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​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

Sprinklers Above Ceiling with Overhead Door?

8/26/2021

8 Comments

 
I'm designing a school that has overhead doors that are 8'-0" x 7'-0" that run up above a 10'-0" or 10'-6" ceiling. The structure is non-combustible (steel beam & steel bar joist) and the walls go deck.

The opening for the door in the drop tile ceiling is an 8'-6" x 1'-0" opening.

This opening does not meet the 70% open ceiling requirement and I'm not sure it meets cloud ceiling requirements.

The plan reviewer is asking me to place upright sprinkler heads above the ceiling. My interpretation is that I don't need sprinklers above the ceiling.

Are sprinklers required above the ceiling?

Thank you in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

Location of "0" Elevation Matter in Hydr. Calc?

8/25/2021

9 Comments

 
I am reviewing a parking garage that is 5-stories in height fully equipped with an NFPA 13 sprinkler system.

The calculations provided for floors 4 and 5 indicate an elevation of 0 at the 3rd floor riser, with the elevations going in the negative values back to the hydrant.

Floor 3 calculations indicate an elevation of 0 at the Floor 2 riser. Floor 2 and 1 calculations show an elevation of 0 at the hydrant where the flow test was conducted.

Does the location of the "0" elevation affect the calculations demand, if the total change in elevation is still accounted for?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
9 Comments

How to Verify If Garage Uses IRC 309.5 Exception?

8/24/2021

3 Comments

 
There always seems to be controversy about residential sprinklers in the garage.

I recently came across a section in the 2018 IRC under Section 309.5 and it states that private garages shall be protected by fire sprinklers (must be residential or quick response, designed to 0.05 gpm/sqft density) where the exterior wall has been designed based on Table 302.1(2) Note A.

This table addresses minimum fire resistance ratings for exterior walls. Note (a) allows fire separation distance for non-rated exterior walls and projections to be reduced to 0-feet, unlimited openings and penetrations, with a setback, where residential subdivisions are all sprinklered.

While looking at that table, I am not sure how to verify on the sprinkler plans if the garage meets that design method.
​
I have started asking the contractor to add a note on the plans regarding the design method and if they use this table and note to design the wall then sprinklers are required in the garage.

How would you interpret this section for compliance?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Suppression Alternatives for Lithium Fire Hazard?

8/23/2021

9 Comments

 
I am working on a project that is manufacturing lithium-metal batteries (not lithium-ion). There are multiple areas throughout the manufacturing process where there is a risk of exposed lithium metal.

With lithium being water reactive, any water based system is not an option.

Are there any known alternative fire suppression systems listed and approved for use on a lithium fire?

I know that per a couple of different NFPA codes that clean agent and dry-chemical systems are not recommended for use on lithium fires. From what I can find there are just manual fire extinguishers (such and ANSUL's lith-x) for use on lithium fires.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
9 Comments

How to Properly Sprinkler a Vertical Shaft?

8/20/2021

10 Comments

 
​I'm laying out the fire sprinklers for a building where the architect has used the IBC exception in Section 403.2.1.2 that requires sprinklers to be installed at the top and alternating floor levels of a vertical shaft. This reduces the required shaft enclosure to be 1-hour for highrises up to 420 feet.

NFPA 13 doesn't seem to address this specific arrangement. I've looked and I'm not finding any installation requirements. I have concerns with just putting sprinklers in the shaft.

What's the best type of sprinkler for this?

Should they have water shields?

Should I have concerns for obstructions?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Required Fire Hydrant Distance From Building?

8/19/2021

12 Comments

 
We have an project serving the textile manufacturing industry. We are looking to install a fire hydrant (500 gpm minimum) in proximity to the building.

What is the minimum and maximum distance these hydrant(s) should be located from the building?

The project is not under IBC / IFC criteria, only subject to the NFPA series of standards. 

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12 Comments

Mobile X-Ray Equipment a Sprinkler Obstruction?

8/18/2021

9 Comments

 
Have you ran into issues where you get cited from the AHJ because movable X-Ray equipment can potentially end up right in the location below one of the sprinklers in the room (just 3 to 4 inches below)?

I have two rooms with a sprinkler at each end of the table, and the AHJ surveyor is citing it as a potential obstruction.

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9 Comments

Resources for Calculating Grid System Manually?

8/17/2021

34 Comments

 
I've been looking for a manual way of calculating a gridded pipe system.

Grid systems used to be calculated by hand before software came about, but now, everyone I can find just says they're "too complicated" and to let the software do them. They require multiple iterations, but using Excel, those iterations can be done automatically.

Doe anyone have resources or a good reference to calculate a gridded systems manually? I'm thinking manuals or textbooks.

​Thanks!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
34 Comments

Poll: What Makes for a Successful Designer?

8/16/2021

9 Comments

 
Below is a poll we're generating to gather feedback on what makes for a successful designer. Obviously this is subjective and there is no one right answer, but we wanted to ask the industry so that we can better understand and train those who are new to the industry. 

​If you don't see the poll below, click "view in browser" in this email or click the title above.

You can view the results after submitting your vote. Select all the options you think apply.
9 Comments

Listed Stream-Straighteners for a Flow Meter?

8/13/2021

10 Comments

 
We are having problems getting a flowmeter to accurately read the flow rate that matches what we are measuring downstream out through a test header. A reading using calibrated pitot gauges outside at 1,500 gpm, for instance, is showing 1,900 gpm on the flowmeter inside.

Military specifications for the project require that the flowmeter read accurately, and that the system be piped such that flow must go through the flow meter out through the pump test header.

The flowmeter manufacturer has recommended using a stream straightener upstream of the flowmeter to better streamline the flow through the meter and get more accurate readings.

Does anyone know of a stream straightener that could be used in a fire pump test loop arrangement?

I would think it would have to be listed, but that's just a gut feeling. I don't currently know of any listed stream straighteners. We generally need to meet the black and white code and specifications mandates spot-on without any code alternatives, if possible, being that it's a military project. Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Sprinklers Req'd for Linking Pedestrian Bridge?

8/12/2021

10 Comments

 
We have two structures that each are sprinkler-protected and require sprinklers. The first is a parking garage, and the second is a combination parking garage and office building. 

There is a pedestrian bridge between the two built as an open structure. 

Are sprinklers required on the pedestrian bridge?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Where to Locate Portable Fire Extinguishers?

8/11/2021

10 Comments

 
I am new to the fire engineering fraternity and I'm currently working with a small office building. It's a single-story, 5,800 sqft office use with a small battery room and small server room.

IBC (2021) Section 906 and IFC start with "where required". I cannot find where extinguishers are required for business occupancy.

What is the code path to determine if fire extinguishers are required?

Does the IBC/IFC not address where extinguishers are required?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Use Standard Sidewall (Not Dry) in Cold Room?

8/10/2021

14 Comments

 
Can I use a horizontal sidewall fire sprinkler (not a dry horizontal sidewall) in cold rooms where there is risk of freezing?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
14 Comments

Specifying Galvanized for Dry? Nitrogen? Sch40?

8/9/2021

8 Comments

 
I'd like to ask a question especially to other specifiers out there. Interested in galvanized pipe, particularly on dry systems.

We all know the valid arguments, reasons, and ever-growing evidence against the use galvanized pipe on dry systems. I always find it curious FM Global is still hanging on to it (although it says galvanizing must be applied after roll-grooving).

While the case for nitrogen systems is becoming stronger, and even more cost-effective, I have not seen it going there yet except on military applications, and generally-speaking, owners are not warming up to it yet (maybe I should be a better salesperson). Owner learning-curve is a factor.

At the time of this writing (mid-2021) are other specifiers requiring nitrogen systems across-the board?

Are you requiring schedule 40 pipe on dry systems? Galvanized?

(See also: https://www.meyerfire.com/blog/why-are-dry-pipe-sprinkler-systems-so-difficult )

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

Use Backflow Preventer as System Control Valve?

8/6/2021

9 Comments

 
Are we permitted to use the control valve on the backflow preventer as the system control valve?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
9 Comments

Fire Department Connection Rated Over 300 psi?

8/5/2021

6 Comments

 
Does anyone know of a fire department connection manufacturer that produces a fire department connection rated for higher than 300 psi?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

Sprinkler Bathrooms, Closets in 13R on Top Floor?

8/4/2021

19 Comments

 
In NFPA 13R, sprinklers may be omitted from bathrooms and closets provided they meet the area and size requirements, and are constructed with limited or non-combustible materials (gypsum/drywall).

Should sprinklers be installed in bathrooms and closets on the top floor regardless of area/size and construction to prevent a fire on the top floor from getting into the ceiling space and spreading?

I have seen other designers do this but I can't find any formal requirements for this approach.

Has anyone else ever done this? Would it matter if the ceiling and roof assembly were fire rated?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
19 Comments

Tank Size, Options for Sprinkler System Supply?

8/3/2021

11 Comments

 
We have a fire sprinkler system with a 550 gpm total sprinkler demand (including hose allowances). The supply duration is 60 minutes. There is no city water supply and we are only utilizing a storage tank.

Is the tank required to have a minimum capacity of 33,000 gallons?

Or, could we rely on fire department response, potentially reduce the tank size, and have a manual fire department connection for tank refill?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
11 Comments

Thanks to The Top July Contributors!

8/3/2021

 
We're all about improving fire protection worldwide with quality resources and shared knowledge. Thanks to those who topped our leaderboards for July:
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Can Trapeze Support Two Sprinkler Pipes?

8/2/2021

5 Comments

 
Is there anything in NFPA 13 that forbids multiple pipes (two, in this case) being supported by a single trapeze?

Assumption here would be that the trapeze has been accurately calculated to support the combined weight of the two pipes (per NFPA 13 Chapter 9, 2016 Edition).

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5 Comments
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Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

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The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
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