Would a mechanical penthouse be considered a “story” in terms of the 30-ft. standpipe threshold?

If the mechanical penthouse is not occupied, does it still apply for the 30-ft limit? Although that would be logical, I can’t the word “occupied” used anywhere except related to high-rise.  I suppose a mechanical penthouse could be considered a mezzanine, I see some commentary that a mezzanine should be no more than 1/3 of the related floor.

The project has three floors where the top classroom floor is 28 feet above fire department access.  But, there’s a mechanical level above that is much higher. It’s accessible, is it a “story” in terms of standpipe?  It would seem logical that this penthouse doesn’t count.  But I’m not 100% sure code backs me up on this.

Of course the thing that bites us, is whether or not the standpipe is manual or automatic – we have fond this to be totally up to the discretion (sometimes whim), of the AHJ.  Sometimes based on good reasoning, sometimes it has causes the unnecessary (IMHO) requirement for a fire pump.

​​​​​​​​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

I'm working on a project with a very extensive horizontal standpipe; it is about 2000 feet long and in a loop, so almost 5,000 linear feet when all said and done.

Where can I find guidance on providing expansion joints?

Due to the system being so long, we're worried about providing some flexibility in the instance of extreme temperature swings (Virginia). Would seismic flexible joints be appropriate?

​​​​​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

During a hotel stay in NYC over the weekend I noticed the combination standpipe included a 3" pressure reducing valve just upstream of the 3" zone control assembly.

An indicating valve was not installed on the inlet side of the Cla-Val (model 90G-21 with no pressure gauges). A filler piece between the PRV outlet and the butterfly valve included a pressure gauge which was at 60 psi. The 2-1/2" fire hose valve was standard pressure and the express drain was only 2".

This arrangement is not something I would expect to see in the DC metro area, but is it typical of NYC?

​​​​​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

We have a combination sprinkler/standpipe riser through floor-level landings in a stairwell of our building. There is a project requirement to provide a pipe sleeve and "required clearance per NFPA 13". 

NFPA 13 gives very clear guidance on clearances in Section 9.3 (NFPA 13 2016 Edition), but that doesn't apply to this project as it is not required to be designed for seismic (Seismic Design Category B).

Where can I determine what clearance needs to be between the pipe and the hole in the concrete stairwell floors/ceilings? I'm not seeing any clearance requirement, but I surely could be missing something. Thanks in advance!

​​​​​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Within stairwells, how are standpipes addressed in regards to cane detection with ABA/ADA rules? Are there any special cane-detection requirements (anything special to allow a visually-impaired person to detect a vertical standpipe)?

​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Where exactly in the International Fire Code or International Building Code (or NFPA standards) does it state that a standpipe riser must be visible or unobstructed? 

Is there anything that prohibits me from sheetrocking the standpipe riser os installing it inside a wall? Of course the hose outlets will be exposed - but what about the riser?

​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

Can we run a 6-inch standpipe for a highrise building (24-story) fully on an external wall? The main would come out of the pump room and take branches for each floor from the riser. This new building has a major space shortage and it's not possible to run the pipe within a shaft inside the building. There is no issue of freezing as the temperature does not drop to the freezing point.

​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

On a combination Class I standpipe/sprinkler riser with automatic standpipes, what is your process to determine exactly where pressure reducing valves should be used?

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

NFPA 20 permits the demand for a suppression system to be between 90% and 140% of a fire pump's rated capacity (NFPA 20-2019 4.10.1 and Annex A.4.10.1). The pressure demand must always be less than the pressure supplied by the pump's performance curve along this range.

Does this concept apply to standpipes? For instance, could a 750 gpm pump provide 1,000 gpm demand for standpipes since it would be running at 133% of its rated flow?

If it can be done, is it good practice?

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

For standpipe hose connections within stairwells, does ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) restrictions apply to the dimensions of hose valves coming off pipe? 

ADA - 2010 Standard

307.2 Protrusion Limits. Objects with leading edges more than 27 inches (685 mm) and not more than 80 inches (2030 mm) above the finish floor or ground shall protrude 4 inches (100 mm) maximum horizontally into the circulation path.

307.3 Post-Mounted Objects. Free-standing objects mounted on posts or pylons shall overhang circulation paths 12 inches (305 mm) maximum when located 27 inches (685 mm) minimum and 80 inches (2030 mm) maximum above the finish floor or ground. 
​
In particular, I'm wondering if the 4" protrusion limit applies to standpipe hose connections off of a vertical standpipe, and if it does, if it only applies if the standpipe hose connection is pointed into the path of egress?

I would imagine there's some life safety experts that could explain this better than I surely am.

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

For years on my code calls I have asked the Authority Having Jurisdiction what the maximum distance the nearest hydrant is allowed to be away from a building's fire department connection. I get answers that range from 50 feet to 400 feet or even more.

I was looking into the code basis behind this question, and the only applicable section that I found is the International Fire Code, Section 507.5.1.1 that addresses hydrant locations for standpipe systems:

"Buildings equipped with a standpipe system installed in accordance with Section 905 shall have a fire hydrant within 100 feet (30 480 mm) of the fire department connections. Exception: the distance shall be permitted to exceed 100 feet (30 480 mm) where approved by the fire code official."

Is there any relevant requirement for hydrants near fire department connections for sprinkler-only systems?

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

NFPA 14 requires standpipes to be full flow tested for the acceptance testing.

Automatic standpipes are fairly straightforward to test, but how have you seen this applied for manual standpipes in mid-rise buildings?

Is this a worthwhile test that will uncover design/installation flaws?

Also, is there any compromised method to meet this requirement?

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe