We are working on a new addition to an existing high school. Part of the addition is a new auditorium with a full stage. The stage will be the highest hazard and our calculation area, Ordinary 2. The stage will also have (2) 1-1/2" hose stations with fog nozzles, one on each end, north and south, to protect the stage. They will be supplied from the same fire sprinkler system protecting the stage.

Do we need to include the hose station(s) discharge in the hydraulic calculations?

If so, what would be the flow criteria from those hose connections, and is that separate from the outside hose allowance or part of it?

Thanks all for your input.

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We have a 5-story building with wet manual standpipes in three stairwells. A single FDC connects to the end of a manifold in the riser room that has a 4-inch dry system, a 4-inch wet sprinkler, and a 6-inch riser that supplies the three standpipes. Each standpipe has a separate isolation valve at its stair tower. One of the standpipes is a combination standpipe/riser with sprinkler floor control valves for levels 2-5.

Regarding the 6-inch standpipe riser off of the manifold:

Is a control valve required, or allowed?

Is a check valve required?

Is a flow switch required, or recommended?

This project is under NFPA 14-2013 Edition. Thanks.

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I have a covered mall under 30' tall that requires hose valve connections in accordance with the International Building Code, Section 905.3.3.

Do these hose valve connections count as a standpipe that requires a monitored isolation valve as per NFPA 14 6.3.2?

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I’m a Fire Inspector/Design Reviewer and I have a problem that I’ve been trying to tackle.  NFPA 14 systems are designed for high volume low pressure firefighting tactics, but the majority of fire departments in America use high pressure low volume equipment.  Here are the key points: 

NFPA 14 Type 1 standpipe systems provide 250 gpm at 100 psi with 200 ft to most remote location in a sprinkled building.  In the firefighting world this equates to a fire attack with 250 ft of 2.5” hose and a 1-1/8” smooth bore nozzle.  The 250 ft comes from, 50 ft to stretch to the hose connection on the floor below the fire floor and 200 ft to most remote location on the fire floor.  Fire ground friction loss calculations for 250 gpm through 2.5” hose is 15 psi loss per 100 ft.  A smooth bore nozzle requires 50 psi to operate properly.  We are stretching from the floor below so we have roughly 6 psi head loss.  So the required pressure at the hose valve is 93.5 psi.  You can see that the NFPA 14 design requirements are in line with the use of this higher volume lower pressure equipment.  

The problem is that 2.5” hose is very heavy and requires a lot of man power.  2.5” attach lines are used by large city departments like Seattle, New York, and Chicago.  Many smaller city and town departments don’t have the staffing to stretch such big lines.  We may only have a couple firefighters stretching an attack line where as the big cities would have 6 or more.  So we use smaller more maneuverable hose and more pressure demanding fog nozzles.

A more typical firefighting set up in the majority of fire departments would be 1.75” or 2” hose and a 75 psi or 100 psi fog nozzle flowing between 150-200 gpm.  I’ll use Bozeman as an example.  We use 1.75” hose, a 75 psi fog nozzle, and a target flow of 175 gpm.  In our experience the pressure loss per 100-ft of 1.75” hose with 175 gpm is 50 psi.  So if we need to stretch 250 ft of hose, we would need 206 psi at the hose valve on the landing below the fire floor.  Add in that the tallest building we have is 11 stories, and a 25 psi pressure loss adjustment for pumping the FDC, and we are up to 285 psi required at the FDC.  

There seems to be a disconnect between the design world and the firefighting world.  This poses all sorts of problems such as compromising sprinkler systems and old standpipe systems since they may have components that are not rated for such high pressures.  Even worse are systems with pressure reducing hose valves that wouldn’t even allow us to pump the FDC to get anywhere near the pressures we need with our equipment (see One Meridian Plaza fire in Philadelphia).  

I think that Fire Departments need to communicate their design needs to designers, and Fire Departments also need to look at the equipment they use, and see how they can make changes to operate more closely to what NFPA 14 systems are designed for.   

If you have any knowledge on this topic I would love to hear it, thanks in advance.

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Are isolation valves allowed to be installed after dry valve for a standpipe system?

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NFPA 1 Section 13.2.2.2, a Class I standpipe is not required in buildings less than three stories or less than 50-ft high above grade. 

If we have a huge industrial complex or storage occupancy of 60,000 square meters (645,000 sqft), should we not require a standpipe system if it is only one floor above grade with a total height of 40-feet? Looks strange to me.

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How do you see standpipes and hose valves protected from physical damage in parking garages where the area is large enough to require standpipes outside of the exit stairs? Bollards? Pipe guards? No protection?

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Would a mechanical penthouse be considered a “story” in terms of the 30-ft. standpipe threshold?

If the mechanical penthouse is not occupied, does it still apply for the 30-ft limit? Although that would be logical, I can’t the word “occupied” used anywhere except related to high-rise.  I suppose a mechanical penthouse could be considered a mezzanine, I see some commentary that a mezzanine should be no more than 1/3 of the related floor.

The project has three floors where the top classroom floor is 28 feet above fire department access.  But, there’s a mechanical level above that is much higher. It’s accessible, is it a “story” in terms of standpipe?  It would seem logical that this penthouse doesn’t count.  But I’m not 100% sure code backs me up on this.

Of course the thing that bites us, is whether or not the standpipe is manual or automatic – we have fond this to be totally up to the discretion (sometimes whim), of the AHJ.  Sometimes based on good reasoning, sometimes it has causes the unnecessary (IMHO) requirement for a fire pump.

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I'm working on a project with a very extensive horizontal standpipe; it is about 2000 feet long and in a loop, so almost 5,000 linear feet when all said and done.

Where can I find guidance on providing expansion joints?

Due to the system being so long, we're worried about providing some flexibility in the instance of extreme temperature swings (Virginia). Would seismic flexible joints be appropriate?

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During a hotel stay in NYC over the weekend I noticed the combination standpipe included a 3" pressure reducing valve just upstream of the 3" zone control assembly.

An indicating valve was not installed on the inlet side of the Cla-Val (model 90G-21 with no pressure gauges). A filler piece between the PRV outlet and the butterfly valve included a pressure gauge which was at 60 psi. The 2-1/2" fire hose valve was standard pressure and the express drain was only 2".

This arrangement is not something I would expect to see in the DC metro area, but is it typical of NYC?

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We have a combination sprinkler/standpipe riser through floor-level landings in a stairwell of our building. There is a project requirement to provide a pipe sleeve and "required clearance per NFPA 13". 

NFPA 13 gives very clear guidance on clearances in Section 9.3 (NFPA 13 2016 Edition), but that doesn't apply to this project as it is not required to be designed for seismic (Seismic Design Category B).

Where can I determine what clearance needs to be between the pipe and the hole in the concrete stairwell floors/ceilings? I'm not seeing any clearance requirement, but I surely could be missing something. Thanks in advance!

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Within stairwells, how are standpipes addressed in regards to cane detection with ABA/ADA rules? Are there any special cane-detection requirements (anything special to allow a visually-impaired person to detect a vertical standpipe)?

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Where exactly in the International Fire Code or International Building Code (or NFPA standards) does it state that a standpipe riser must be visible or unobstructed? 

Is there anything that prohibits me from sheetrocking the standpipe riser os installing it inside a wall? Of course the hose outlets will be exposed - but what about the riser?

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Can we run a 6-inch standpipe for a highrise building (24-story) fully on an external wall? The main would come out of the pump room and take branches for each floor from the riser. This new building has a major space shortage and it's not possible to run the pipe within a shaft inside the building. There is no issue of freezing as the temperature does not drop to the freezing point.

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On a combination Class I standpipe/sprinkler riser with automatic standpipes, what is your process to determine exactly where pressure reducing valves should be used?

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NFPA 20 permits the demand for a suppression system to be between 90% and 140% of a fire pump's rated capacity (NFPA 20-2019 4.10.1 and Annex A.4.10.1). The pressure demand must always be less than the pressure supplied by the pump's performance curve along this range.

Does this concept apply to standpipes? For instance, could a 750 gpm pump provide 1,000 gpm demand for standpipes since it would be running at 133% of its rated flow?

If it can be done, is it good practice?

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For standpipe hose connections within stairwells, does ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) restrictions apply to the dimensions of hose valves coming off pipe? 

ADA - 2010 Standard

307.2 Protrusion Limits. Objects with leading edges more than 27 inches (685 mm) and not more than 80 inches (2030 mm) above the finish floor or ground shall protrude 4 inches (100 mm) maximum horizontally into the circulation path.

307.3 Post-Mounted Objects. Free-standing objects mounted on posts or pylons shall overhang circulation paths 12 inches (305 mm) maximum when located 27 inches (685 mm) minimum and 80 inches (2030 mm) maximum above the finish floor or ground. 
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In particular, I'm wondering if the 4" protrusion limit applies to standpipe hose connections off of a vertical standpipe, and if it does, if it only applies if the standpipe hose connection is pointed into the path of egress?

I would imagine there's some life safety experts that could explain this better than I surely am.

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For years on my code calls I have asked the Authority Having Jurisdiction what the maximum distance the nearest hydrant is allowed to be away from a building's fire department connection. I get answers that range from 50 feet to 400 feet or even more.

I was looking into the code basis behind this question, and the only applicable section that I found is the International Fire Code, Section 507.5.1.1 that addresses hydrant locations for standpipe systems:

"Buildings equipped with a standpipe system installed in accordance with Section 905 shall have a fire hydrant within 100 feet (30 480 mm) of the fire department connections. Exception: the distance shall be permitted to exceed 100 feet (30 480 mm) where approved by the fire code official."

Is there any relevant requirement for hydrants near fire department connections for sprinkler-only systems?

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NFPA 14 requires standpipes to be full flow tested for the acceptance testing.

Automatic standpipes are fairly straightforward to test, but how have you seen this applied for manual standpipes in mid-rise buildings?

Is this a worthwhile test that will uncover design/installation flaws?

Also, is there any compromised method to meet this requirement?

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