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Valve Cabinet Clearance Is there any code which requires a minimum clearance for a valve cabinet. I typically say 36” or 1m (in Canada) as that is the typical clearance required in front of equipment. But I have been asked if there is any supporting reference for this specifically and I can’t find one for hose cabinets.
Just hose valves in a cabinet or where they are not to obstruct egress. Looking to see what others use and if they have any code reference. Along a similar thought - does anyone know if equipment access clearances can overlap, or do they need to be independent of each other? Can clearances overlap? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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NFPA 14 states that "hydraulically designed standpipe systems shall be designed to provide the waterflow rate required by Section 7.10 at a minimum residual pressure of 100 psi at the hydraulically most remote 2½" hose connection and 65 psi at the outlet of the hydraulically most remote 1½" hose connection" (Section 7.8.1, 2019 edition).
So does this mean if you have a single 2½" hose valve on your project, you need 100 psi residual at that valve? This seems pretty cut and dry, but I've been thinking about this, and off the top of my head, I can list at least 5 projects that had 2½" hose valves and less than 100 psi of static pressure on the ground floor, let alone 100 psi residual on the 4th floor. Not only projects that I have personally witnessed get signed off, but also buildings I have found myself walking through that have had gauges on the hose valves, and those gauges more often than not (in my area at least) read a pressure less than 100 psi static. Are these just all designed wrong? Or am I missing something? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am designing a wet pipe fire sprinkler system in a one story Group B occupancy (16-ft high). The building is about 90,000 sqft in area. The building will be fully sprinklered with two zone control valve assemblies.
The fire department is asking to add fire hose valve cabinets as the interior remote areas of the building are more than 130 feet from an exterior door, only citing that its required by IBC 2021. Is this correct? I can't find this requirement. Any help is appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What specific criteria or code references determine whether a standpipe system is classified as 'separated' rather than 'combined'?
I've seen AHJs state that even though the sprinkler system and the standpipe have separate vertical riser assemblies (control valve, check valve, and supervision), they are fed from the same underground supply (one underground service main) and will still be considered combined. We are working on a project where the AHJ has deemed the building 'partially sprinklered,' requiring the standpipe to be upgraded from 4" to 6" (which would necessitate a pump) but only if it is a combined system. We are looking for clarification or language that supports the distinction between a combined and a separated standpipe system to explore options that may avoid the need for a pump. Additionally, does anyone have thoughts on how we might be able to keep the standpipe at 4" or explore alternative approaches to avoid the pump requirement? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In NFPA 14, Sections 7.12.2.2(2) (2019) or 10.7.2.2(2) (2024) state that a "minimum of two FDCs shall be provided for each zone for the following: (1)* High-rise buildings (2) Buildings or multiple attached buildings exceeding 900 ft (274.3 m) perimeter distance." Neither edition defines "perimeter". Is it measured where the building meets grade? Should it account for all exterior walls? Two building which share similar "A" length and "B" width dimensions can produce vastly different "perimeters" depending how they're measured. (See image below.)  Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Operationally, why would a fire department with a 1,500 gpm pump on a fire engine connect to a building FDC that has a 1,750 gpm pump?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is involved in a 5 year inspection/test for a manual wet standpipe?
I see in NFPA 25, 2017 edition that manual wet standpipes are not required to be flow tested or hydrotested when part of the sprinkler system. So my question again is are there any specific requirements for 5 year testing for manual wet standpipes? Thank you all! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How would you recommend determining when PRV hose valves should be used in a highrise?
I am designing a 12-story hotel. The highest outlet is at 125'-5". Our flow test is mid-50's static and residual at 1,500 gpm. I did the standpipe calculation using a combined source of the city and fire pump. I sized the pump to what the demand was at 750gpm @ 174.26 psi. In turn I put in a 750gpm @ 125psi fire pump and had a 6.45lb buffer. Do I then do another calculation to find out the maximum static pressure available on the supply side at each level and minus out the elevation loss? Can anyone give me a guide on how to find out which level needs a PRV FHV and which doesn't? Thank you in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're designing a small footprint high rise with 2 stairs/standpipes, and 3" drains in the stairs for floor control valve drains and testing/verifying hose valves.
Primary water is supplied from a vertical turbine pump and tank. Local codes don’t allow direct outdoor drains so it’s either into the tank or into large hub drains. Owner is very ‘green’ and looking for ways to reduce water usage. We’ve already got the fire pump test flows back into the tank. We’re considering flowing the stair’s drains into a hub with a bypass into the tank -- hub for system draining, tank for PRV and flow switch testing. Is it advisable or preferable to run these stair drains back into the tank? Concerns include flowing black, stinky water into the tank and possibly adding pipe scale into the tank Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Where is the code section that states the numbers (calcs) on the supply side shall be greater than the numbers at the base of riser (system side)?
Does the code address this with a code section? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a multistory building with horizontal exits which require additional hose valves on each side of the door.
International Fire Code Section 905.4.1 addresses the protection of the standpipes, stating it must be equivalent to the rating required for the vertical enclosures of the building (e.g. egress stair) and the exception relieves the requirement for shaft protection of the laterals (e.g. interconnection). However, there is no relief for protection of the vertical standpipes supplying the additional hose valves. In the past, I have typically seen the additional vertical standpipe risers in the corridor wall separating the corridor from the units (1 hour) and fire stopped at the floor penetrations. However, according to this code section a 2-hour shaft is required. Is there some relief of the 2-hour shaft requirement for additional standpipes outside of the stair enclosure? If so, can you please guide me to the code reference? If the shaft enclosure is required, would it also apply to the 2-1/2" feed serving the valve on the opposite side of the horizontal exit door? I appreciate the insight. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Our high-rise facility consists of apartments, condominiums, retail on the bottom floor, restaurant tenants on the top floor, and (3) levels of underground parking. We are 9 stories tall out of the ground.
They have great water pressure at the site with 140 static and 118 residual, flowing about 1,900 GPM, but with our floor-to-floor distances, I cannot get 100 PSI at the top of my standpipes. The building footprint is spread out, so I will need (8) standpipes to cover the hose lay inside the building (fully sprinklered). I'm assuming one 1,000 gpm pump will cover all the standpipe demand. To complicate matters, this is in a seismic area D classification, and with it being a high rise, I am required to have a secondary on-site water supply. The intent was to install an underground tank to supply the fire pump or pumps, if necessary. My thought was to supply water directly from the city main to the tank, and if there is ever a break in the city supply line, the pump would be served from water in the tank, which would have enough capacity to serve the facility for 30 minutes. Is 30 minutes the duration I need? What do you think about how I plan to serve the building? Would that meet the requirement for a secondary water supply? Do I consider the standpipe demand when sizing the underground tank, or just the most demanding area of my sprinklers? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I've always wondered, how do the responding fire personnel holding the nozzle of a hose attached to a standpipe deal with the slugs of compressed air?
What happens with a hose/nozzle when a large, class I dry manual standpipe system is getting slammed with 150 psi (or more) of water pushing all that air? Do they purge air before hooking up the hose? How about a wet manual standpipe where the FDC is several sticks of 6" pipe from the check valve? What's it like on the end of the hose when that slug of air arrives with 150-175 psi of water in front and behind it? Are there any firefighters out there experienced in standpipe operations who care to share? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When are pressure reducing hose valves required on a dry automatic standpipe system?
I have a project where I have been asked to evaluate an existing sprinkler system for an 8-story apartment building. The original installation falls under NFPA 13/14/20 2013 edition. The building is served by four dry automatic standpipes and a separate wet sprinkler feed. The standpipes are not combination sprinkler/standpipes. The fire pump churn pressure is 212 psi and there is a pressure reducing valve provided for the wet system supply. There is no pressure reducing valve for the dry automatic standpipes. The hose valves on the standpipes are the pressure restricting type. Not pressure reducing. When reviewing the data sheets for the hose valves, it states "Adjustable restriction of pressures up to 175 lbs....at residual flow" but the valves themselves are rated to 300 psi. At normal, non-fire conditions, the standpipes have 23 psi static pressure of air, but if the dry valve were to trip for any reason, (non-fire or not) the standpipe exceeds 175psi static pressure on the 1st-7th floors. NFPA 14 2013 states that "7.2.3.2* Where the static pressure at a 21⁄2 in. (65 mm) hose connection exceeds 175 psi (12.1 bar), an approved pressure regulating device shall be provided to limit static and residual pressures at the outlet of the hose connection to 175 psi (12.1 bar)." Would the static pressure be considered the normal air pressure or the static pressure if the dry valve trips? My assumption here would be that the pressure restricting valve needs to be swapped for a pressure reducing type. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does any one know in 1960's and 1970's, what the flow and pressure requirements of 1-1/2 inch standpipe system hose of NFPA 14?
This would be for a Class II system. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have seen this method of arranging fire suppression components (see attached schematic) several times where I live. The attached is a partial re-creation of the fire water entry schematic for a high-rise building with a fire pump. The system has low and high pressure zones. The underground parking dry systems are served by the municipal water directly, and the standpipes and aboveground sprinklers are fed by the pump.  Questions: 1. Can you have a FDC serving the low pressure zones as shown on the suction side of the pump per NFPA-14 6.4.3.1? 2. If not, how should the schematic be arranged instead? 3. What could happen if the Low Pressure FDC were pressurized as shown? This project was built under the 2013 editions of NFPA-13, 14, and 20. I am asking because I am beginning design of a sprinkler system for a 22 story high-rise. Thanks for your help. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For multi family buildings, I am being told that for a 4-story building, normally the fire pumps are only 15HP because the standpipes are pressurized by the fire trucks.
My understanding of NFPA 20 is that it would still be required to have a correctly sized fire pump without considering the size of the pump on the local fire trucks. Is this an industry norm that is allowed by certain AHJ’s or is there code related to multi family that I am missing? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In a 15-story highrise building, can the standpipe system be zoned with an Automatic Dry in the 1st -5th floors of the unheated Parking Garage, and an Automatic Wet in the 6th- 15th floors of the heated office portion?
Are we allowed to mix types? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any requirement for a standpipe to be installed due to travel distance between stairwells in a 3-story R-2 building?
I am reviewing plans of a U-shaped apartment building with two stairwells on the ends. The distance between them is about 470 feet. We are under the 2018 IFC. If not required by code, would you as the AHJ consider requiring them for improved fire operations? Thanks for any feedback. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the required pressure for a manual Class III standpipe, 65 or 100 psi?
We're working on a 44'-4" high, 5-story, Type V-B construction building that has a 1-story garage and amenities. The upper floor is R-2. The local code says I can have Class III standpipe. As I go through NFPA 13 and NFPA 14, it circles back around to 2-1/2" outlets, except with 2-1/2" x 1-1/2" reducers and caps. It's going to be fully-sprinklered with a combination standpipe in one stairwell, and just one standpipe riser in the other. Does this sound correct given the project? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're working on a one-story school. The AHJ (Fire Marshal) is requiring inside 2 1/2-inch hose valves at the exit locations.
These hose valves are fed directly off the wet sprinkler system main - not fed from a dedicated standpipe main. 1. I'm having trouble finding code regarding feeding hose valves off of the wet system main. 2. I'm trying to determine if the pipe, off the main, to these hose valves, needs a control valve installed. Appreciate the tips and insight. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello everyone. Looking to get some feedback on a building under construction.
I have a 3-story condo building with 4 stairwells, protected by an NFPA 13 sprinkler system. The condo building is exterior access via corridor which connects the stairwells and is about 20 units total. There is a single fire sprinkler riser that enters one of the stairwells at the corner of the building and goes vertical to serve all levels. Overall, fairly typical. Currently, the building is nearing the end of construction and they’re installing drywall. However, a new Fire Inspector is asking for “more standpipes”, despite the fact that the building does not have standpipes, nor are standpipes required (3 stories, none below grade, and below height threshold to the top floor, etc.) The reason he is requiring them is because he is saying per NFPA 14, you cannot exceed ~200 feet in between standpipes. However, because the building does not require standpipes in the first place, this code section does not seem to make sense. Of course, I know the AHJ is allowed to require things above and beyond the code but my big issue is that the building is about 80% complete now, and he asked for this on a typical inspection. The design criteria, FP shop drawings, civil plan, etc. were all approved by other inspectors/ AHJ / Reviewers, and has been for a couple of years. I noticed he seems to be intermixing the word “Standpipe” and “Fire Riser” frequently which makes conversations more difficult. Just looking for some other opinions on this issue and I appreciate any input at all. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Regarding: IFC 905.4 Location of Class I standpipe hose connections.
Class I standpipe hose connections shall be provided in all of the following locations: 1.in every required interior exit stairway, a hose connection shall be provided for each story above and below grade plane,. Hose connections shall be located at the main floor landing unless otherwise approved by the fire code official. Does this mean a standpipe connection is not needed at the ground floor? I've brought this up to numerous design/build sprinkler subs and they all say a connection is required at the ground floor. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a standpipe demand of 750gpm. I am providing a fire pump for the system demand.
Should I be selecting a 750 gpm pump or a 1000 gpm pump, based on adding a safety factor (or other reasoning)? My sprinkler demand is less than 750 gpm so I would only need to provide the 750 gpm for the standpipes. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 3-family building with parking garage and three floors over parking for a total of four floors.
According to the IBC, a standpipe is required; my question is - is the standpipe required in all stairs? We have two stars which are less than 30-feet between the stairs. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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