You all rock! Thanks for helping make this space helpful for others by sharing your unique perspectives. Here's the top commenters from March:

A laundry room for a hotel contains large commercial dryers. These dryers appear to have internal fire suppression systems that require a 3/4-inch water hookup with a flexible hose.

Based just on the 3/4-inch threaded hookup and flexible hose, I would presume this connection should be by domestic water, but I wanted to ask if anyone provides connections like these from the fire sprinkler system?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

I'm working on an 1880's masonry four story historic building that currently has no fire sprinkler system. We're looking to retrofit a fire sprinkler system and we're looking into any and all ideas for concealing the pipe but keeping the historic charm. 

This building itself has concrete beams with 'tin' ceilings in-between. We're considering building down false beams, furring out entire walls, and potentially soffits to help conceal pipe. 

For those who have complete sprinkler retrofit designs for historic buildings, what tips or methods have you used to make your projects successful?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

Other than the Contractor's Material and Test Certificate for Aboveground Piping (NFPA 13) and System Record of Completion (NFPA 72), where can I find a good procedures for acceptance testing for fire sprinkler and fire alarm systems?

​Is there a step by step approach that I can add to for my particular project?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

There's likely to be a wide perspective on the value of engineer-provided sprinkler layouts on plans that delegate the full-design to the fire sprinkler contractor. Do you feel they provide benefit? Take the poll and comment below. 

[Don't see the poll below? Click here.]

A middle school is being expanded by two classrooms and about six small offices and supports spaces. The addition is separated by a fire barrier from the main school, and the existing school has a temporal-3 horn/strobe fire alarm system throughout (and is fully-sprinklered).

Current code requires an emergency voice/alarm communication system for the expansion, which the design team intends to provide.

The question is how to address the interaction between the new voice system and the existing? Is this purely and AHJ call?

Ideally, the school should consider upgrading their entire fire alarm system to voice for a cohesive message and best benefit. However, funding is very tight and we're not confident they'll have the support they need to do a full upgrade at this time.

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

Have you had AHJ’s request FPE seals on hood fire suppression systems often? It’s in the letter of UFC 3-600-01 (this is a US military project) but has not come up before for us. 

Do you have an opinion on what needs to happen if the system (or the majority of it) is factory installed in the hood? Can it be treated as part of the UL listed assembly?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

A flexible sprinkler armover is serving a sprinkler in a suspended ceiling, and connects through a gypsum wall to the branchline.

Is there anything that prohibits the flexible drop from running through the wall?

Is a clearance required through that wall?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

From Joe: I haven't had as many questions posted recently by members, so if you have a question you'd like to see posted on the Daily forum, email them to me at [email protected]. Thanks & I look forward to hearing from you!

We occasionally have inadvertent fire alarm activations that we can't get to stop until a fire alarm company arrives to correct the issue at the facility where I work. Are we permitted to turn off the alarm and conduct a fire watch during this time instead?

​Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

A security wall (under standard ICD/ICS 705) details the technical specifications for a SCIF wall (sensitive compartmented information facility). As part of the specifications, there must be a dielectric break when penetrating the wall (this helps break up any electronic transmission along the pipe). This can be done using a dielectric union, flange or coupling, but it must be listed for UFC 4-010-05 (section 3-5.8.2) for military applications. 

Is there a product that acts as a dielectric break that meets this specification?

If this can't be accomplished with a dielectric break, the standard calls for grounding but does not detail how to ground the pipe. Can this just be done with grounding a single point? Has anyone used this method before?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

Our first Daily question of the day that includes a photo. Here goes - 

I was surveying/inspecting a facility and came across a riser component that I am not familiar with, at least in the way this one appears.  

The riser room is located in a basement, and the white drain goes to a sump, then is connected to drain pipe.  I have never seen this arrangement before.  

The question is what is the stainless steel hose going to that says “spring loaded”? 

...one of these days I gotta find time to hang out with a sprinkler contractor or FPE….

From Joe Meyer:

Are you an expert in NFPA 22 and water storage tanks for fire protection systems? Are you interested in beta testing a new tool under development?

I'm working on a new water storage tank tool and I'm seeking input and feedback from those who are familiar with and regularly work on water storage tanks.

If you're knowledgeable, interested, and willing to provide feedback on this new tool, please email me at [email protected]. Thanks in advance!

I have a healthcare building owner (five story building) who is doing a small remodel to about a third of a single floor. The existing sprinkler system is being modified (relocated and demo/new sprinklers) to accommodate the wall and ceiling changes.

The existing building is Seismic Design Category D, requiring seismic bracing, but the existing system has none. My recommendation to the owner (which aligns with their insurer's recommendation) is for retrofit of the whole floor if not the whole building. 

The owner is looking to provide seismic bracing on only the system being modified. 

Does this provide any benefit at all?

My concern is that without adequate bracing what is provided could possibly provide zero benefit or even make the system worse if part is fixed and another is not.

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

A fire sprinkler system for a single building requires a tank for water storage as there is only a well at this project's remote site. We're considering using a diesel pump with a pump house adjacent to an aboveground water storage tank.

What type of fire pump would you recommend for this scenario?

The building is only Ordinary Hazard Group 1, so I'm expecting an approximate pump size of 500 gpm, 75 psi, 50 HP. There will not be much suction pressure since the water storage tank will not be pressurized.

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

This retail project has a series of fabric awnings that are fairly large. Have you come across fabric awnings that qualify as non-combustible or limited combustible to the extent that sprinkler protection is not required beneath? Looking for guidance to provide to an architect client.

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

Do laundries within residential buildings require a standard-spray sprinkler, or can they also use residential-style sprinklers? What about corridors?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

Can I determine a room capacity for a classroom or lab by just walking in and measuring the room's square footage and using a load factor?

Some of our classrooms have so many desks it looks like a cattle car going to slaughter. I'd like to be able to go room to room and say, "This is the maximum allowable seats...". Appreciate any simple tips for a simple guy. Thanks. 

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

Despite a shorter month we had a record number of comments on the site this past month. Thank you to all those who share your take on the questions posted here. Your collaboration not only helps those who asked the question but the rest of us learn about different approaches to fire protection challenges. Here's the top ten for February 2019:

There's a fully-sprinklered jail renovation that is using 18-foot long (13-foot wide) four-man pre-engineered steel jail cells.

Typically we would use sidewall institutional-style sprinklers which can throw up to 16-feet in length. The goal is typically to conceal the piping behind the cell so that it is inaccessible to those within the cell.

Has anyone encountered these longer cells, and if so is there a solution other than putting a sidewall at the front and back of the cell?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

I ask this only to satisfy my own curious nature. 

I've observed sprinkler system pipes that appear to be joined with what appears to be a two piece clamp which is itself joined by nuts and bolts.

What is this fitting style and how does this method function? 

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

The table in NFPA 13 for different hazard classifications and hose allowances has a range for the water supply duration (table 11.2.3.1.2 in NFPA 13-2016). For instance, Ordinary Hazard has a required water supply duration of "60-90" minutes.

When is the lower part of the range used, and when is the higher used?

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe

My clients are wanting to store a small amount of Class IIIB liquid (cooking oil) in a Group S storage mezzanine that is part of a larger Group F-1 commercial cooking facility. I've done the larger FP scheme for when this product becomes a full-scaled production with its own designated processing plant, and that has a rack protection scheme for Intermediate Bulk Container storage.

This smaller-scale renovation is a mock-up of the larger scale production in an existing plant- intended to get product to the customers for test marketing. The quantity stored will be a single pallet of (60) 5 gal plastic jug in box containers. The overhead system is Ordinary Hazard Group 2, although if I source calculated I could probably get a .6 x 3000 +500. 

Because the quantity is so low, nothing in NFPA 30 seems to really pertain to the storage. The jurisdiction is on the 2012 IFC, and I think that §5704.3.4.4 applies. It basically says that flammable and combustible equipment for maintenance and the operation of equipment in excess of 10 gal shall be stored in liquid storage cabinets (the equipment of course being the searing/frying equipment in the other area of operation). 

My question arises from never having to have specified protection criteria for storage quantities so small. I want to get the client to unload the pallets into 3- cabinets, following all of the separation criteria. 

Does use of the cabinets mean that the fire-rating requirements for "control areas" do not need to be followed?

Or does the standard want the storage cabinets inside a burn-rated area?

If it is the latter, I am planning to ask the fire marshal for an exemption for the 1-hr burn rating required by NFPA 30 Table 9.7.2. 

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Submit a Question | Subscribe