MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
    • [THE ALL-NEW SITE]
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Emergency Electrical Feeders Require Sprinklers?

7/30/2021

5 Comments

 
I'm being asked to provide sprinkler protection for emergency electrical feeders for a highrise hotel. NFPA 70 (2014 Edition) Article 700.10.D.1 states:

"Feeder Circuit wiring shall meet one of the following conditions: 1) Be installed in spaces or areas that are fully protected by an approved automatic fire suppression system."

The conduit runs exposed tight to deck, and also through non-sprinklered, non-combustible ceiling cavities.

I'm worried that we'll be required to sprinkler the entire concealed space where there is unprotected conduit installed - or would it be acceptable to provide localized coverage?

Does anyone have experience with this or know of any guidelines for this application?

This is a first for me in my 20-years, historically I've always seen this type of conduit be encased in concrete or handled by one of the other (4) options listed in the NEC.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
5 Comments

Duration for NFPA 409 Hose Allowance?

7/29/2021

2 Comments

 
NFPA 409, 2016 Edition, Sections 6.2.10 and 7.8 discuss the addition of a 500-gpm allowance for exterior hose.

The standard does not specify a duration, only to fall back on NFPA 13 for calculation purposes.

Without any firm guidance, am I looking at a duration of 90-minutes for Extra Hazard occupancy?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments

%-Flammable Liquid for Container, or Liquid only?

7/28/2021

3 Comments

 
NFPA 30 Figure 16.2.5 is used to determine if a material is viscous liquid or not.

I am having an issue with a interpretation of the "Weight (percent flammable or combustible liquid)".

Is this weight for the liquid only or the liquid plus the container?

Example: Total package / container weight = 2.48 grams. The liquid inside is a Class III-A mixture that is 0.78 grams (31.5%).
Picture
If I go with the entire package Figure 16.2.5 is applicable (less than 50%), but if I am just looking at percent of combustible liquids, all the liquid is combustible.

Thanks in advance. 

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Hazard Classification for Extraction Room?

7/27/2021

4 Comments

 
We have a medical marijuana facility with an extraction room that does not story any butane.

The room itself is 750 sqft, and it does not store flammable materials that are used for extraction within the same room. Those will be outside in a locked metal storage shed.

Would the room remain an Ordinary Hazard Group II / Agricultural, or be considered Extra Hazard?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Solid Shelves if Multiple Skids Less than 20-sqft?

7/26/2021

4 Comments

 
I'm working with a warehouse owner who has equipment that is on skids, stored onto racks. Each skid is less than 20 square-feet in plan view. This warehouse is only using single-row racks, not particularly high.

I understand 20 sqft to be the maximum threshold for an "open-rack" storage arrangement versus "solid shelves", by the definition of NFPA 13 for solid shelving.

If we maintain flue spaces all around of 6-inches, could the owner theoretically just store each skid at least 6-inches apart, and still not have solid shelf situation?

My gut says that 100-ft long, single row of racks with only this equipment on skids would act more like solid shelves, but if the flues are maintained, then it appears as if NFPA 13 still allows treatment like an open rack. This specific project may be more of a theoretical as the owner has plenty of floor space to limit the overall height of the racks, but I'd appreciate any feedback for future scenarios that come up like this.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Height for Sprinkler in Garage with Slab Band?

7/23/2021

6 Comments

 
I am designing a sprinkler system for an underground parking garage (Ordinary Hazard, Group I) with NFPA 13 (2013 Edition). The concrete ceiling has slab bands that drop 12-inches (300mm) down from the underside of the ceiling.

I am using extended coverage uprights on a dry system.

Can I use Section 8.8.4.1.2 (1) to show sprinklers 1- to 6-inches below the slab band, which would make them 13- to 18-inches below the underside of the ceiling?

This would make them less than 22-inches below the ceiling.

I'm asking because I don't know if a slab band counts as a "structural member" as far as this is concerned.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

Is Unistrut Permitted for Sprinkler Pipe Trapeze?

7/22/2021

19 Comments

 
Is Unistrut allowed to be used for trapeze braces on sprinkler systems?

There are two issues at hand - one is making sure the section modulus allows for Unistrut to be used. In this case we have a 16-inch span with only a 2-1/2" main on the trapeze, so we're good there.

The other issue is the listing and approval of components. Any tips here?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
19 Comments

What is the Hose Allowance for NFPA 13R?

7/21/2021

5 Comments

 
We have a two story apartment building, and we are installing an NFPA 13R wet pipe sprinkler system.

Is an outside hose demand required to be included within the calculations?

There are no inside hose stations.

If outside hose demand is required, is the demand the same as light hazard? 100 gpm?

We couldn't find a reference to this in NFPA 13R.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
5 Comments

Drain Pipe in Basement to Surface w/ Auxiliary?

7/20/2021

6 Comments

 
What methods do people use to drain a riser that is located in a basement?

We have a four-story building with the sprinkler riser in the basement. The basement consists of a small mechanical room and the rest is earth-filled.

Would it be permitted to run a drain pipe up to the surface, which would drain the majority of the system until the water finds its level, and then provide a secondary 1" drain which would run to a sump pit?

In this particular situation, the remaining water adds up to roughly 20 US gallons. The sump pit is 42 US gallons, and the sump pump is rated for 50 GPM.

Thank you very much!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

Standpipe Required Due to Occupiable Roof?

7/19/2021

4 Comments

 
I have a building being renovated into a (A-2) restaurant for a total of three floors with a basement level. All levels are classified an A-2 occupancy. The building is going to be sprinklered and have a fire alarm system.

Now that the project is about 75% to completion, the owner has resubmitted plans to have the roof top used as a A-2 also with an occupant load of about 30 people. The ground floor to the roof is 29-ft.

The building is not over 30-ft to require a standpipes, but can it be required now due to the rooftop being used as a occupied floor?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Omit Sprinklers In Higher Ceiling Near Alcove?

7/16/2021

4 Comments

 
I have alcoves in a corridor that has a lower ceiling height than the rest of the corridor. The lower ceiling is 36-inches lower than the higher ceiling.

The alcoves are sprinklered, but not the higher ceiling in the corridor directly adjacent to the alcove. The rest of the corridor is sprinklered, spaced off the sprinkler in the alcove.

Can sprinklers be omitted at the higher ceiling?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Hazard Classification for Casino Gaming Floor?

7/15/2021

4 Comments

 
What would a proper hazard classification be for a casino gaming floor area?

The project is under NFPA 13, no known insurance requirements.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Vertical Reducer in Before Vertical Inline Pump?

7/14/2021

10 Comments

 
Can I install a concentric reducer in the vertical position and a 90 on the suction side of a vertical inline pump?

The feed is coming from above the pump, and we don't have space for a 90 and an eccentric reducer.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

IBC, A117.1 Apply to Stair for Surface Parking Lots?

7/13/2021

3 Comments

 
I have an exterior stair that connects two different surface parking lots. There is about 12-ft of elevation difference between the two surface lots.

The stair is not a means of egress for either of the adjacent buildings, and is not part of the accessible route/entrance to either site.

Would any of the stair requirements in IBC or A117.1 apply?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Best Sprinkler Type for Salt Spa Therapy Room?

7/12/2021

10 Comments

 
I am an AHJ and have a salt spa in our jurisdiction with sprinklers in the salt therapy room. Not surprisingly these sprinklers are heavily coated with salt deposits.

What is the best type of head to use in this environment?

If we require wax-coated corrosion resistant heads we are still concerned with salt deposit build up.

Any other suggestions on ways to protect heads in this room?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Feedback on Fire Service Access Elevators?

7/9/2021

7 Comments

 
Requirements and guidance around Fire Service Access Elevators came into the IBC after 9/11.

​Do any fire department or other code officials have experience in seeing these be helpful or lead to increased fire fighting capabilities?

I have not heard of any fire incidents where they've been beneficial and they're going in more often now - just would love to hear if they've been in use.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
7 Comments

Sprinkler Req'd in Open Air Chamber Enclosure?

7/8/2021

3 Comments

 
We have a project with a generator room on the outside of a building. There is a large louvre to an air chamber that is about 8-feet wide before another concrete wall is to be erected. The concrete wall has some bracing back to the main building.

Is there a reason sprinklers should be required in this air chamber that is open to the sky?

I'm looking for code help either way. Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Ceiling Over 24-ft Outside the Scope of 13R, 13D?

7/7/2021

6 Comments

 
13, 13R, 13D: Calculations and High Ceilings

I was reading through NFPA 13 (2016 ed.) and caught Section 8.10.2.2:
Residential Sprinklers shall not be permitted to be used on ceilings with slopes greater than 8 or 12 or ceiling heights greater than 24 feet unless specifically listed for this purpose.

This got me curious about how it affects NFPA 13R and 13D, checking into those I didn't see any restrictions where residential sprinklers stop being allowed at the ceiling height, however the maximum 24-ft ceiling was noted in NFPA 13D (2019) 10.2.1 and NFPA 13R (2019) 7.1.1.3.1 in regards to design sprinklers.

So am I correct in assuming that if you have a residence with a 24'-1" foot ceiling in the family room (say there's a loft second floor), that you now have to calculate and design the space per NFPA 13 rather than 13R or 13D (as that ceiling height is outside of the scope of 13R and 13D)?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

How Often Are FDCs Used in a Fire?

7/6/2021

12 Comments

 
Can someone tell about how often are Fire Department Connections ever used in a real fire?

We all install FDCs but in the real world how much do Fire Departments use them?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
12 Comments

Use Transformer to Reduce Voltage of Fire Pump?

7/5/2021

3 Comments

 
Can a 3-phase, 480 volt electric service inside the fire pump room be reduced down to 208-volt 3-phase with a transformer properly sized for the 6x amps of demand of the the fire pump serving the building?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Power Monitoring Required for Smoke Control?

7/2/2021

3 Comments

 
IBC Section 909.12 and 909.3 requires weekly smoke control tests for smoke control systems.

Can this test suffice for positive confirmation of power to the smoke control system?

Or, is a monitor module required on the power source to the smoke control fan to confirm power to the system?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Thanks to Top Contributors for June 2021!

7/1/2021

 
Special shout out to our top contributors for June 2021 - your knowledge empowers those around the world to help do great work.
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture

Use Hot-Dipped Steel Pipe for Foam Concentrate?

7/1/2021

7 Comments

 
NFPA 11 identifies several materials for foam concentrate pipe & valves, including brass, bronze, stainless steel (304 or 316), or other material in accordance with foam concentrate manufacturer's certification of compatibility with the foam concentrate as approved by the AHJ. [NFPA 11-2016 4.7.1.1]

Can we use hot-dipped carbon steel pipe to meet this requirement after the foam pump to the foam chamber of the cone roof tanks?

The distance is more than a mile long (1.2 miles, 2 km). Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
7 Comments
    SUBMIT A QUESTION
    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​Nov. '23 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A1171
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Blog Thread
    Daily Discussion
    Design-documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection
    Explosion-protection-prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable And Combustible Liquids
    Flammable-combustible-liquids
    FM Global
    Human-behavior
    IBC
    ICC 500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 30B
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    UPC
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    December 2023
    November 2023
    October 2023
    September 2023
    August 2023
    July 2023
    June 2023
    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is a NICET Recognized Training Provider and International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
    • [THE ALL-NEW SITE]
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT