MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

How Much Wood Above Ceiling Req's Sprinklers?

11/30/2020

3 Comments

 
We are in a fire sprinkler retrofit and we have steel joists and decking throughout the building, with mostly masonry block walls. It's a single-story structure.

Where there are doors, however, there is wood framing above the grid ceiling.

How much wood constitutes an issue requiring fire sprinklers above the ceiling?

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Window Sprinklers in lieu of Barrier for Escalator?

11/26/2020

2 Comments

 
I have a question about protection of sprinklers in windows specifically for a connection of a basement parking garage and a first level mall commercial space.

NFPA 101 accepts that there is a connection between both occupancies, but there must be compartmentalization of 3-hours without automatic sprinklers and 2-hours with automatic sprinklers. In this case, we have an escalator from the basement up to level 1, as shown below:
Fire Sprinklers at Escalator

Can we consider this to be compartmentalized with glass and sprinklers on both sides of the glass?

Do the access doors have to be 1-1/2 hour, our could they not have any fire resistance if I have sprinklers on both sides?

This project is under NFPA 101 (specifically Table 6.1.14.4.1 for separation between occupancies), NFPA 5000, and NFPA 13 (9.3.5/19.4.3 for sprinkler protection of windows).

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments

Deluge System with Regular Pendents Allowed?

11/25/2020

3 Comments

 
We have a large production facility where there is an isolated small room that is remote from the sprinkler riser room. This small room houses tools and other equipment which the owner sees as valuable property and does not want it to get wet unnecessarily, especially during trip testing when they test the deluge system. 

The sprinkler system is an open-head deluge system, except for these few regular pendent sprinklers.

Are these pendent sprinklers acceptable to be installed on a deluge system?

I was under the impression that only open-head sprinklers could be used on a deluge system.

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Best Way to Setup Multiple FP Air Compressors?

11/24/2020

8 Comments

 
I inherited 3 sites each with multiple sprinkler systems (2 or 3 depending) on "plant air". The problem is the compressors assigned to deliver said plant air are only robust enough to air up a single component system within 30 minutes.

During the fall, we experience drastic temperature drops at dusk that result in pressure drops across all systems simultaneously, that effectually over-task the lone compressor at each site. The compressors run until the overtemperature cut-off pops, and they've been leaking oil from the head gasket due to overheating.

I'm perfectly willing to buy a $5k compressor, but they're typically 3 phase. I'm also willing to buy 2 or 3 small compressors/riser and cap the plant air line, but in either case the greater expense is running AC power to the risers, or upgrading the current plant air circuit voltage.

A permutation of the above 2 options would be to run 2 -$700 compressors in parallel at the current plant air site to split the CFM output requirement. I would have to run a 2nd dedicated circuit to the existing compressor locations, but it's in relatively close proximity to the panel.

To do so I am assuming I would need to wire the on/off pressure switches to an air maintenance device. I need them to come on and cut off at the same time, or else one will run to failure, the pressure bleed down, then the redundant compressor will run to failure. I'm worried that modifying the new compressors will void their warranties (which I acknowledge I may have to live with).

Does anyone have a diagram and parts list for how to use 2 compressors in tandem? Any recommendations for most pragmatic fix?

​Thanks in advance.

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

How to Address Linear Accelerator Vault Egress?

11/23/2020

0 Comments

 
Who has dealt with the question of egress from the vault of a linear accelerator (used to treat patients)?

The vault can only be opened from the inside by a button which can be disabled from the outside! The only manual opener is a crank on the outside!

I realize the patient could be incapacitated but what about maintenance and cleaning crews? Any recommendations, especially from those with experience, would be appreciated.

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
0 Comments

Sprinklers Required for Ambulance Overhang?

11/20/2020

8 Comments

 
I'm working on a project with an overhang that has patient rooms above. The ceiling of the overhang serves as a "canopy" for ambulances, which will back in under the overhang to protect patients from the elements when unloading the ambulances.

The design and completed construction do not include any fire suppression including sprinklers.

Are sprinklers required for this canopy?

​​​​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
8 Comments

Sprinklers in Obstructed Construction Also Required Above Sound Panels?

11/19/2020

4 Comments

 
We are sprinkler protecting a building with all I-Beams (W-type) and they are considered Obstructed Construction. The maximum beam depth is 20-inches. All my deflectors are 20" down from the deck. 

The owner now wants to put sound panels in each of the beam pockets which will take up about 85% of the space and will hang level to the finished floor but at least 9-inches up to 19-inches down from the deck because the steel slopes.

Would additional sprinklers be needed above these sound panels?

​​​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

When is Eccentric Reducer's Flat-Side on Bottom?

11/18/2020

13 Comments

 
When/why would an eccentric reducer ever be installed on a fire pump's suction side with the flat side on bottom?

​​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
13 Comments

Refill Considered When Sizing Fire Water Tank?

11/17/2020

9 Comments

 
Is it permissible to consider the refill supply for a water storage tank when sizing the tank?

The supply would come in above 20 psi. Thanks in advance.

​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
9 Comments

Draw Remote Area on Inside or Outside of Walls?

11/16/2020

4 Comments

 
Where exactly is a remote area for a fire sprinkler hydraulic calculation drawn with respect to interior and exterior walls?

Is the remote area boundary along the inside, centerline, or outside edge of a wall?

Also, are small wall cavities or unsprinklered shafts right in the middle of a remote area included in that remote area square-footage?

I recognize that as much as I can fine-tooth a layout this really doesn't matter much in the overall scheme - and I typically would add a sprinkler or two to a calculation if the exact location of the remote area boundary would make or break an area threshold - but I've been curious about this as I'd like to be consistent with code and what should be done.

​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Is Sprinkler Waterflow Alarm Silenceable?

11/13/2020

4 Comments

 
We have a project where the AHJ is telling us they want the waterflow alarm to be silenceable. Our understanding under NFPA 13-2019 7.7 and 28.2.3.1 is that there must be an audible alarm within 90 seconds (per NFPA 72) and must continue until the flow stops, not when the fire alarm system silences the flow.

Are we correct in that waterflow is a non-silenceable event, by code?

​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Number of Sprinklers to Include in Calculation?

11/12/2020

4 Comments

 
A couple recently submitted questions relate to the same topic: 

(1) Extra hazard, grid pipe layout of approximately 1,800 sprinklers. What is the criteria that drives the specific number of sprinklers that will be operating together?

(2) What's the best way to determine the design area and number of sprinklers within a calculation for a parking garage?

​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Sprinkler Spacing Only Cover Each Cloud Ceiling?

11/11/2020

3 Comments

 
I have a project with cloud ceilings that are 80 sqft clouds with a 2-foot separation around each cloud. I have no intention of omitting the sprinklers above the clouds. I plan to locate sprinklers in each cloud, considering them obstructions greater than four feet.

Do I need to space the sprinklers in the clouds to just cover beneath the cloud?

Just want to confirm that spacing doesn't need to be across the cloud ceiling when sprinklers are in different clouds. Thanks in advance.

​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Egress OK Through Doors in Double Firewall?

11/10/2020

3 Comments

 
I have a double fire wall (two masonry walls next to each other with small air gap in-between). I need to have a door in each wall.

The doors would have to swing opposite directions, I think, which means a double Firewall could not be used in an egress condition where doors both have to open in the direction of travel to the exit.

It sounds like I need a tied or cantilevered Firewall instead of a double Firewall. Is this correct, or are there any other approaches to a door within a double Firewall?

​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Type of Deluge Protection for Transformers?

11/9/2020

6 Comments

 
We have a project where transformers are located on the periphery within a building's ground floor. There are 14 transformers within a single room. The life safety consultant has recommended for us to provide deluge system protection.

Is it required to provide a deluge valve for each transformer, or combine three or four transformers per valve?

Also, how should sprinkler flow demand - is it calculated by each nozzle, or should we consider the entire transformer area for protection? Under NFPA 15 we have assumed 0.25 gpm/sqft (or 10.1 lmin/sqm).

​Thanks in advance.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

Dry Chemical or Equivalent for -20F Environment?

11/6/2020

3 Comments

 
Does anyone know of a dry-chemical or equivalent fire suppression system that can be used in cold environments (as low as -20 degrees Fahrenheit)?

The space to be protected is a testing chamber approximately 8 feet by 11 feet (made of combustible materials). Automatic fire extinguishers are not an option as they don't have any UL rating. Thanks in advance.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Sprinklers Needed Below Multiple Small Clouds?

11/5/2020

13 Comments

 
I have a project where there are multiple cloud ceilings with minimal gaps in-between. The clouds are 3'-6" wide, and the gaps between them are approximately 3-inches. Below is an image of the reflected ceiling plan.
Picture
Are sprinklers required below these cloud ceilings? Thanks in advance.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
13 Comments

Specific Requirements for Fire Pump Location?

11/4/2020

6 Comments

 
I have a project where the fire pump room is located on a third floor level.

Are there any specific requirements regarding the location of a fire pump? Is this location acceptable?

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments

How to Layout Sprinklers Beneath Steep Slope?

11/3/2020

10 Comments

 
What design options do I have with a fire sprinkler design to address protection underneath a 45-degree pitched roof?

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Check Valve Distance from Fire/Jockey Pump?

11/2/2020

2 Comments

 
By code, does the check valve on the discharge side of a fire pump, or jockey pump, need to maintain any specific distance from the pump itself?

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments

Thanks to Top October 2020 Contributors!

11/2/2020

0 Comments

 
We're always thankful for the expertise and input shared with this collaborative community. The wide range of voices (from designers to AHJs, inspectors and engineers) is great. Here's a thank you to all our contributors, especially our Top Ten for October:
1. SK
2. Franck
3. Dan Wilder
​4. Jonathan Sullivan
5. Casey Milhorn
6. Sean
​7. Colin Lusher
8. Mike
9. Jonathan Joseph
10. Daniel Garcia
0 Comments
    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​Feb 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 30B
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is an International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT