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I'm designing a 13R system. The building currently has a 3/4" domestic water service. The building is in a location that would make installing a new (larger) service a logistical nightmare.
Is it allowed to connect the 3/4" existing supply to a water storage tank (sized per system/domestic demand) in the basement, then build a residential riser from that? If this is allowed, do I only take my calculations back to the storage tank? Do you foresee other problems with this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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I am preparing an assessment for adding a fire protection sprinkler system to an approximately 9,000 sqft existing single-story building that is a state half-way house for juveniles after being released from detention. Fewer than 16 occupants excluding staff.
The architect has deemed it Group R-3 occupancy (although I wonder if Group R-4 Condition 1 is more appropriate.) IFC 903.3.1.2 permits NFPA 13R throughout Group R, and this meets the three stated conditions for this section. Section 903.1.3 allows NFPA 13D in some applications; the list is separated by semicolons and includes R-3 and R-4 condition 1. However, more square feet of this facility is dedicated to non-residential purposes (meeting rooms, classrooms, kitchen, etc.). This seems counter to the scope of NFPA 13D. Even the IFC commentary mentions the use of 13D, but for one- and two-family dwellings. And I'd prefer an FDC and more than a 10-minute water duration. I'm a sprinkler guy, and not a building code expert. My gut says NFPA 13R is most appropriate (and I will ask the building code official), but what nuance am I missing here? Budget-wise NFPA 13D is way more favorable, but it just doesn't seem right. I'd like to know if both NFPA 13D & NFPA 13R are acceptable options for this type of building. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Question regarding a mechanical closet and/or plenum. We have what I'll call a mechanical closet because it houses an electric AC/heating unit for an apartment using NFPA 13. The sprinkler designer/contractor is calling it a plenum/small space and is omitting sprinklers. The plans do not show any sprinkler coverage. Is this closet a plenum or small enough space to omit sprinkler protection? Is there code justification for this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  I have a dry pipe system in which all test connections have an auxiliary drain except one. That one test connection is the farthest and highest connection, which is then piped down to ground level.
At ground level, the test valve is in a heated room and drains out through the wall. That pipe was filled with water (we don't know why) right to the top of the attic, froze, and burst an elbow. Should this test connection have had an auxiliary drain where the maintenance person checking for condensate and all other test connections likely would have found the filled test connection? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Forward Flow Test Confusion... I have an NFPA 13R system built in 2013 that doesn't have any hose connection(s) for forward flow testing. The sprinkler contractor is saying they're unable to conduct the test.
I am attempting to understand the codes around this topic and ran into several questions. First, NFPA 25: 2020 NFPA 25 13.7.2.3 states, "Where connections do not permit verification of the forward flow test at the minimum flow rate of system demand, tests shall be conducted at the maximum flow rate possible." Can someone please explain what this means exactly? My second question concerns using the main drain to conduct the forward flow test if it's sized appropriately. A previous Meyer Fire blog post, "Solutions for the Overlooked Forward Flow Test," Option 4, mentioned the 2016 NFPA 13 A8.16.2.4.2, but I cannot find that section in the 2019 version. Has this method changed somehow? Can the sprinkler contractor use the main drain as a means to conduct the forward flow test? If so, what else does the AHJ need to know? Calcs to prove drain size can flow system demand? Pitot reading? Thank you for reading and I'd love to find some clarity. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project with two existing 900 sqft apartments above a non-sprinklered marine repair garage. Only the apartments are required to be sprinklered.
Can I sprinkler the two apartments per NFPA 13D, or do I have to do per NFPA 13R? I know the definition of dwellings says no more than two dwelling units in 13D. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Why is there a drastic change for limiting an NFPA 13R sprinkler system from a four-story, maximum 60 feet height above grade plane in IBC 2018 to the maximum of the top floor being only 30 feet above fire department access in IBC 2021?
Here, we have many townhomes (R-3 group) that could easily comply with the 2018 edition of the IBC, but they will exceed the top floor 30-foot limit of the 2021 edition of IBC. Also, the 2024 IBC tries to fix the drastic change by providing an exception for Group R-2 buildings by raising the top floor height limit from 30 ft to 45 ft. That's great and all, but townhouses are still considered R-3 buildings and do not qualify for the exception. How would you proceed for a townhome with a top floor over 30 feet above fire department access? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a client who owns multiple assisted living facilities. It's residential construction with attic insulation on the roof trusses' bottom chord, and louvered gable ends with ridge vents.
They have existing wet pipe sprinkler systems in the attic and have experienced busted sprinkler lines in the past. They want to heat the attics to prevent this with electric heaters. I have done the heat loss calculations and have determined the heating load would be more than their current electrical service can support. The only options I see available are heat trace, anti-freeze, or conversion to a dry system. Anti-freeze with UL-listed anti-freeze was my first thought, but it looks like a backflow preventer would have to be added. Does anyone have experience with this and/or have recommendations on how to address this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any way to install sidewall sprinklers in a room with sloped ceilings?
Say you had a rectangular room with a ceiling attached directly to the underside of a traditional gable roof with a high ridge peak in the middle. Concealed pendent ceiling sprinklers are often not possible because the space above the ceiling is completely filled with insulation. Can you do sidewalls on the vertical walls near the ceiling high point to protect the room? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a church reuse project with three apartments on the top floor and open storage on the lower/basement level.
Can I use NFPA 13R throughout? Or, do I need to base it on an NFPA 13 system with a typical 4" riser? I believe the building is Type V-B construction. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Imagine you have a 6-unit, true townhouse-construction building covered by the 2018 IRC under construction. It has an NFPA 13D sprinkler and a one-hour separation between units, but there is one common closet for the sprinkler riser and domestic water main. This closet is accessed only through a door on the exterior and is under the control of the landlord, not the tenant.
What is the code path to require any fire separation between that closet and the dwelling units? There is no dog house off the side. The IRC only seems to call out separation between units, and even if you go into the IBC, it is not apparent. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a 5-story building going up with 4-story residential over 1-story parking.
Can the residential portion be NFPA 13R? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an old existing 3 story building with a basement that is being converted into an apartment building. It used to be a small paint factory.
The architect is calling for a NFPA 13R system, which is understandable since it has all the qualifications for 13R. However, about 90% of the building is exposed 2x12 construction sitting on 10x14 wood beams. The only areas designated to get ceilings are the bathrooms and some kitchen soffits. That leaves most of the building having obstructed combustible construction, which creates a whole series of problems. First, I cannot find any residential sprinklers listed for installation below this type of construction. A smooth, flat or sloped ceiling is required for all of them. The AHJ is using the 2019 version of 13R, and Section 6.2.1.3 allows the use of QR sprinklers in dwelling units, but only if there are no more than four sprinklers in the dwelling unit. All of the dwelling units require more than four sprinklers, so it seems to be that I cannot use 13R at all? Could someone please tell me if I am interpreting and applying these code sections correctly? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe All - talk me off the ledge, I have overanalyzed the requirement of dry sidewalls on porches and now I can't sleep until I get this answered:
Initial design of an apartment complex (3 story) called for an NFPA 13 (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system. The apartment complex will be covered in a cementitious siding and trim (non-combustible). Under NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2, sprinklers may be omitted from porches constructed with non-combustible or limited combustible materials in accordance with NFPA 703's requirements concerning non- and limited-combustible materials. The cementitious lap siding and trim exceeds the non-combustible requirements of NFPA 703. The plot thickens - the apartment design was changed to incorporate an NFPA 13R (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system instead of NFPA 13. Under NFPA 13R Section 6.6.5.1 Where a roof or deck is provide above, sprinklers shall be installed to protect attached exterior balconies, attached exterior decks, and ground floor patios serving dwelling units in buildings of Construction Type V. The building construction Type is V-B but the porches are constructed of non-combustible materials - and this configuration/condition is not addressed in NFPA 13R. NFPA 13R Section 6.6.8 "All situations regarding sprinkler location and position that are not directly discussed in NFPA 13R shall be in accordance with NFPA 13. NFPA 13R does not address exterior porches constructed of non-combustible materials - since this situation is not addressed directly in NFPA 13R it is addressed in NFPA 13 which is detailed above (NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2). So based on the above - are sprinklers required on non-combustible porches in NFPA 13R systems? In addition, if sprinklers are required on non-combustible porches in an NFPA 13R system, why would NFPA 13 allow them to be excluded - as NFPA 13 should be the more "conservative" standard? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13R Section 9.3.1 talks about accounting for domestic flow "unless provisions are made to prevent the domestic waterflow on sprinkler system activation."
We have a low-rise apartment building that is four stories tall, under NFPA 13R. The sprinkler system can be supplied via a 6-inch service from a nearby main, but when domestic (2" or 2 1/2") is added it would require an expensive run to a remote main and an 8-inch service. The MEP engineers are sort of shrugging at questions and would love to be paid to entirely re-design the system unless we tell them what to do/use. I don't know the correct terminology to find the elements of a system that would cut off the domestic tap when the fire system activates. What is that called in the trade? Am I correct in understanding that the sprinkler system has a flow sensor that activates when a sprinkler flows water, and this would then trigger alarms and as part of that, do something like activate a solenoid valve cutting off the domestic tap? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is "tenting" wet system piping (in an unheated attic) an appropriate approach to protect the pipes when the outside air temperature can drop to approximately 0 degrees F for multiple consecutive days?
In this case, the soffit and ridge vents allow exterior air into the attic space and there is no air barrier to prevent cold air infiltration. I have reviewed NFPA 13 and 13R and cannot find a definitive answer. Many thanks for assisting. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This question is regarding obstructions to residential upright and pendent sprinklers.
The 2016 edition of NFPA 13, 8.10.6.1.2 (4) states that obstructions that are located against the wall and that are not over 24 inches in width shall be permitted to be protected in accordance with Figure 8.10.6.1.2(c). This is a pretty sweet rule, as basically your only concern is the sprinkler distance from the wall and not the obstruction dimensions. However, the 2016 edition of NFPA 13R does not contain this wonderful rule, even though the rest of the obstruction rules are essentially the same. Any thoughts on why the decision was made not to include this rule in NFPA 13R? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm working on an apartment that is surrounded by a manufacturing facility. The Fire Marshal is calling it NFPA 13R.
Can I use the new incoming water for domestic for fire as well, like in an NFPA 13D system? The manufacturing facility has its own system, but is attached to the apartment. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am working on a permit for a 1,500 sqft (750 sqft/ floor) new construction live/work building R-2 in California (2022 California Building Code, which is based on IBC). It has a 1-bedroom apartment above with only "work" space below.
The building code allows for Live/Work R-2 to be protected with NFPA 13R. In the building code the only uses not allowed in the "work" area of Live/work are Group H & S. Where all of this gets hazy is that I interpret the code as 13R being allowed to protect this whole building regardless of use except for uses S or H. For instance would a small pizza joint be allowed in this "work" space as long as it did not have special hazards that would require an ANSL or NFPA 13 system? Or is Live/Work with 13R just purely limited to office, barber, professional space, etc.? From multiple angles I am trying to understand the true limits of Live/work when there are no local ordinances that limit the "work" space use except S & H. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 4-story building with Levels 2 through 4 being residential. The first floor is retail and amenities. The 4th floor has vaulted ceilings and is essentially open as a gabled roof deck.
The plan was to use CPVC for all residential floors, and at the top floor to run pipe level and extend sprigs up to catch the peak and higher roof areas. Is this acceptable? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is it worth installing a nitrogen generator for small residential dry pipe systems with less than 50 gallons?
We have about 175 homes with dry pipe systems in our jurisdiction. Would a nitrogen generator be the best solution for corrosion protection? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 4-story apartment building with commercial units on the first floor, residential on all floors above.
The architect is providing a 2-hour separation at the 2nd floor deck (concrete on a metal deck), and is requesting NFPA 13 for the 1st floor and NFPA 13R for the units above. The AHJ came back and requested NFPA 13 for the corridors and elevator lobbies on floors 2-4 to avoid separation of elevator lobbies from corridors, but still keep the draft/smoke control doors at the hoistways. Can NFPA 13 and 13R be mixed on the upper levels? Is this approach valid from a code-standpoint? Is there validation or different approaches that would need to take place to make this happen? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an NFPA 13R (2019), 4-story apartment. It's Group R-2, Class V-A construction, with open interior breezeways hallways in "garden style". Combined, all floor levels are ~60,000 sqft (~15,000 sqft per floor).
The design includes one 320 sqft storage room and about four 55 sqft storage closets in the interior breezeway per floor that tenants can rent if they choose. All storage rooms and closets have gypsum ceilings. From what I can tell, NFPA 13R-2019 doesn't really address storage like this, so I'd assume to revert back to NFPA 13 in order to protect? Is that a correct approach? Due to the combustible construction - would that trigger coverage above and below ceilings in these spaces? And then - am I permitted to tie into an NFPA 13R system, or would this even need a separate riser? We could have two scenarios - one with rooms 2-hour fire resistance rated from the R-2, and another where it's incidental and not separated. Thanks in advance for your input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a rehab of a two story with a walk out basement where they are going to expand the basement level and make it mercantile with the two upper floors being R-2.
This is Type V-B construction and they are proposing to 1-hour horizontal to separate the mercantile from the R use. They are wanting to use the standpipes as their sprinkler risers. My question is three-fold: 1. Can they sprinkler the entire building with 13R, or 2. Can they omit sprinklers completely in the mercantile if they separate from the R use by 1-hour (the mercantile by itself would not require sprinkler protection, 3. Can they sprinkler the mercantile with 13 and the R use 13R without a rated separation? I am an AHJ and only wanting to require what the Code requires. I am having trouble deciphering the requirements. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In the stairway, on the 2nd floor only of 4-story wood-framed condo (NFPA 13R), do we require a sprinkler on the “extended landing” ? In the attached image Blue is the sprinkler in question, red are the required sprinklers.  The main floor requires coverage because it has two entrances / exits from the stairway. The upper floor has full protection of the entire area. The 3rd floor does not require protection as the 4th floor does not have a extended landing. So this only applies to the 2nd Floor.
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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