MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Ventilation for Lithium-Ion Battery Off-Gassing?

10/12/2022

10 Comments

 
[Moderator's note: since the first lithium battery question a few weeks ago, we've been flooded with more questions on the topic. We'll do our best to not overburden everyone here but still keep with the topics people are asking. As always, we're thankful for you all!]

Could anybody point out some publications that deal specifically with the ventilation of lithium-ion batteries during off-gassing and how the ventilation should be controlled?

I am familiar with FM Global Loss Prevention Datasheet, and NFPA 855, and I went through some publications such as FIA, however from those I only get that there should be sufficient ventilation.

I am more interested in the off-gas detection part of the design.

The ventilation should be turned on and ESS turned off at the first sign of explosive gasses, but what gasses should those be?

H2, CO, C2H4, CH4, or all mentioned in a combination?

Not sure how to proceed in this.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Power Monitoring Required for Smoke Control?

7/2/2021

3 Comments

 
IBC Section 909.12 and 909.3 requires weekly smoke control tests for smoke control systems.

Can this test suffice for positive confirmation of power to the smoke control system?

Or, is a monitor module required on the power source to the smoke control fan to confirm power to the system?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Duct Smoke in Supply for Stair Pressurization?

6/4/2021

2 Comments

 
For a smoke control stair pressurization system designed in accordance with IBC 909 and IMC 513, does the code require a duct smoke detector on the supply fan?

Does the installation of a smoke damper at the stairway boundary factor into this requirement? (i.e. IBC 717.3.3.2 requires a detector within 5 feet of a smoke damper). Normally this motorized smoke damper is closed and then automatically opens upon activation of a specific fire alarm signal.

NFPA 92 6.4.6.2 does require a duct detector on the stair pressurization supply fan; however, I'm unaware of a similar requirement in IBC/IMC. NFPA's intent is to detect smoke on the air supply and shut down the unit before smoke compromises the stairway.

For elevator hoistways that require smoke control, IBC 909.21.4.2 states to provide a detector. I would have expected a general statement in IBC 909.12 with the same intention as NFPA 92; however, I do not see a similar requirement in the IBC/IMC for stairways.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments

How 150 ft/min Applies for Exhausted Enclosures?

3/15/2021

3 Comments

 
The International Fire Code (IFC) Section 6004 for highly toxic and toxic gases states the following for exhausted enclosures:

6004.1.3(1) The average ventilation velocity at the face of the enclosure shall not be less than 200 feet per minute with not less than 150 feet per minute.

However, in the same section for gas cabinets (Section 6004.1.2(1)), the words "at any point of the access port or window" are added after "150 feet per minute."

Doe anyone know if this was an oversight by the authors of this section? Did they miss a few words in the requirement for exhausted enclosures?

I don't understand why the 150 feet per minute would be for gas cabinets but not exhausted enclosures (albeit without referencing where the 150 feet per minute measurement is to be taken). This issue is coming up at my work as we have several exhausted enclosures and gas cabinets and some of the exhausted enclosures have ports/windows which are sealed shut. Thanks in advance!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Smoke & Heat Vents in New Addition Only?

8/21/2020

4 Comments

 
An existing F1 occupancy with no high-piled storage is getting an addition, resulting in the total square footage for the entire F-1 area (all open) being over 50,000 ft sq, thus requiring smoke and heat vents per the 2012 IBC and IFC.

The question was asked if smoke and heat vents can just be added to the new addition and install a draft curtain to separate the existing from new, so smoke and heat vents will not be required in the existing space.

My question is, would a draft curtain be sufficient for creating a divided area in this regard?

There is no true definition of a divided area in either the building or fire codes. I wouldn’t think it would necessarily need to have a fire barrier or partition. I would assume a properly sized trap curtain would be sufficient?

Does anybody have any experience with this unique type of issue, or have any comments or suggestions?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Are Natural Smoke Vents Obstructed for Stage?

7/13/2020

1 Comment

 
We have an auditorium with a stage area. The stage area is fully sprinklered and provided with four natural smoke vents at the roof.

Below the smoke vents at a depth of almost 10-feet (3 meters) there is structural steel frame (provided for structural stability) arranged with narrow gap of only about 1-inch (30 mm) and obstructing all the smoke vents. We understand this steel frames will deflect the smoke plume and affect the performance of smoke vents.

Is there a standard/code reference regarding how to include this obstruction in the calculations and to prove to AHJ that the smoke vents would still be sufficient?

Thanks in advance.

​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
1 Comment

Shelter-In-Place Req'ments for Area of Refuge?

5/29/2020

3 Comments

 
This building is an H-1 occupancy. There is an area of refuge on the 4th floor. The shelter-in-place Class 3 area of refuge is protected from interior and exterior hazards. There are vertical openings through all 4 floors. The UFC is governing.

Based on this, do the stairwells need to be intertied directly to the shelter-in-place area of refuge for an exit enclosure that is a direct accessible means of egress (we are providing accessibility provisions)? Does the shelter-in-place area need to be a smoke enclosure as well as the interconnected stairwell system?

Based on this will both the stairwell and the shelter-in-place need to be pressurized to meet design intent?

Both exterior and interior air is hazardous and a scrubber would be needed to inject air for stairwell pressurization.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments

Two Fire Dampers for a "Double" Fire Wall?

10/4/2019

10 Comments

 
Being told I need two fire dampers to serve a single fire wall. The fire wall is made of a "double wall", essentially two masonry walls next to each other with a very small (less than 2-inch) air gap in-between. The engineer on the project is stating that this "double wall" requires a fire damper in each.

I've never come across this as a requirement before. Do I need two fire dampers?

​​​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
10 Comments

Must Fire Alarm for Mech. Shutdown be Fail-Safe?

5/10/2019

2 Comments

 
We have a project where a control module is connected to the mechanical controls that is programmed to the variable frequency drive for a fan on a large unit. When a duct detector senses smoke, the control module (which is normally-open circuit) will close the circuit, sending a signal to the mechanical controls which shuts down the unit.

On this project we had a bad set of control modules that didn't work. We discovered this in testing with the local jurisdiction, and swapped out the modules and the system now works correctly. 

Both the jurisdiction and I wondered whether this normally-open arrangement is acceptable. If a control module were to fail, the duct detector would not be able to close the circuit on the module and the fan would remain running. In this scenario, there would be no supervision or way to know that the control module failed other than someone standing at the fan or finding the issue during testing.

My inclination is that in the future these modules could be normally-closed and open upon duct detection. That way if the module fails and opens on its own, the unit will shutdown in a "failure" mode.

Is it code required that this arrangement be fail-safe?

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments

How to Zone Sprinklers by Smoke Control?

11/5/2018

3 Comments

 
Have a project that requires the sprinkler system to be zoned by the areas with active smoke control. Each floor of the highrise is approximately 12,000 sqft is to be divided into two zones. I intend to have multiple floor control risers (valve, check valve, flow switch, pressure gauge, inspector's test & drain) for each smoke control zone. Is there any less costly way of accomplishing this?

It has been suggested that multiple flow switches can be placed on the same system with different retard settings so that the fire alarm system can identify where the water is flowing, but I don't have experience with this option.

Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe.
3 Comments
    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​Feb 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 30B
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is an International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT