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We have a project in Geelong, Australia, where the product that is bulk-stored within the building makes for an extremely dusty environment when it is unleaded.
Sprinkler protection is proposed to protect the building - but I wanted to ask the question about "excessive loading of sprinklers". What's the best option to minimize the loading on the sprinkler? NFPA 25 mentions this, of course, but our code in Australia does not mention this term but does state that the sprinklers need to be visually checked annually, and suggests that a more stringent maintenance routine be in place for these environments. The bulk product is phosphate rock and it typically used for the fertilizer manufacturing plant across the road. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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We have a rehab of a two story with a walk out basement where they are going to expand the basement level and make it mercantile with the two upper floors being R-2.
This is Type V-B construction and they are proposing to 1-hour horizontal to separate the mercantile from the R use. They are wanting to use the standpipes as their sprinkler risers. My question is three-fold: 1. Can they sprinkler the entire building with 13R, or 2. Can they omit sprinklers completely in the mercantile if they separate from the R use by 1-hour (the mercantile by itself would not require sprinkler protection, 3. Can they sprinkler the mercantile with 13 and the R use 13R without a rated separation? I am an AHJ and only wanting to require what the Code requires. I am having trouble deciphering the requirements. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is a fire department connection required on a new construction, 2-story, 30-ft tall, four-unit wood-framed building?
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're working on a one-story school. The AHJ (Fire Marshal) is requiring inside 2 1/2-inch hose valves at the exit locations.
These hose valves are fed directly off the wet sprinkler system main - not fed from a dedicated standpipe main. 1. I'm having trouble finding code regarding feeding hose valves off of the wet system main. 2. I'm trying to determine if the pipe, off the main, to these hose valves, needs a control valve installed. Appreciate the tips and insight. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are flexible couplings required at riser for vertical support?
My project has a vertical support for a 30-ft long 6-inch riser. I used a riser clamp with two wall-mounted welded brackets to provide vertical load hanger at about 20-ft AFF. The inspector commented that I have to provide a flexible coupling above and below within 24" of the point of attachment. His reasoning is: 18.2.3.1(6) NFPA 13 2022 edition (6) Within 24 in. above and 24 in below any intermediate points of support for a riser or other vertical pipe. Anyone has suggestion for better way to put a vertical support at the riser? Is one ATR hanger at the top of the riser sufficient? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are pendent sprinklers required below a decorative wood slat feature along the ceiling? Wood slats vary in height from 4" to 12" but is suspended at ceiling height (9'-0"). The area above the slats is concealed space and requires uprights. The total area percentage of slats is 42% below the concealed space.  Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Asking as an employee of an architectural design firm - we have an outdoor performance center (A-5) with a 6,000 sf performance "platform". It is not being designated as a stage (just lighting and sound above).
This outdoor platform does have a lid/ceiling up about 50-ft with walls on three sides and open to the outdoor seating area. Would this outdoor space be exempt from sprinkler protection under building code for A-5 guidelines, or should it be treated like any overhang where products underneath might be flammable? I believe it needs protection, but have not worked on an outdoor A-5 Assembly occupancy before. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When protecting underneath a continuous obstruction (example: a duct over 4-ft in width that extends through multiple different hazards), how do you space the sprinklers beneath the obstruction?
Industry standard, I would say, is to cover according to the hazard that each individual sprinkler is in. What code reference states this? What prevents you from spacing sprinklers underneath the duct at 15-ft throughout the length of the duct rather than switching between Light and Ordinary spacing? From what I read, NFPA 13 states how to install sprinklers under continuous obstructions but not necessarily what spacing is required in reference to hazard. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 Density/Area Method Chapter 28.2.4.2.3 states that if the design area is smaller than the required minimum design area, you're allowed to include only the sprinklers in the available design area.
However, there's an additional provision. This provision details how to calculate the design discharge. First, you subtract the flow from the available area from the required minimum design discharge. Then, you add this difference back into the equation. Essentially, this brings you back to the flow discharge of the required minimum design discharge. Could someone explain this provision? Is this calculation done to account for potentially higher flows in the main header? What flow then determines the maximum flow for sizing a fire water tank? I'm looking forward to your answers. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Regards from Norway -
Modern storage and picking racks often combine small units, both bins and cartons, in flow-through for picking in the lower part, and ordinary pallet storage above. I believe this is common worldwide, but few sprinkler standards, if any, provide guidelines on vital parameters. Case: We're dealing with ordinary open pallet racks. The commodity class is up to 3 (possibly 4). The picking height is up to 7-ft (2.0 m) based on mini wheel flow-throughs. Above that, there are 4-5 standard pallets with total net storage heights of 26-ft (8.0 m) in a building with a 39-ft (12 m) ceiling height. It seems feasible to protect the pallets with ceiling-only sprinklers. However, there's no vertical alignment with any transverse flue spaces in the picking part. It seems logical to install a horizontal fire barrier above this area. How should we protect the lower part of the racks? Should the ceiling sprinkler water demand be based on 26-ft (8 m) storage at a 39-ft (12 m) ceiling height, or 26-ft (8 m) at a 33-ft (10 m) ceiling height, measured from the top of the in-racks for the picking area? I hope someone has a view on this matter. A not-yet-finalized version of EN 12845-1 has some parameters for systematically constructed automatic small unit storage, but my actual case is for manual operation and is not specifically systematic for the small units area in only a couple of the racks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm reviewing a stadium project. The maximum available open vertical distance from WC stalls to the ceiling is 11.8-inches (300mm).
According to NFPA 13, table 10.2.7.2.2 (2019 Edition), the horizontal distance allowed from stall to sprinkler is 14.8-inches to 17.7-inches (375mm to 450mm). The width of the WC cubicle is 33.5-inches (850mm), so sprinklers must be provided in each cubicle. This will result in many sprinklers in a wet area that has non-combustible or limited combustibility materials. Therefore, I've suggested sealing the cubicles up to the ceiling to create small WC rooms less than 55 sqft (5.1 sqm) to eliminate sprinklers. To my knowledge, there are no references that support this option for such an occupancy. Is my suggestion to omit sprinklers in these small compartments consistent with the spirit of NFPA 13? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the proper method for protection of high-piled storage of consumer packaged alcohol with an ABV greater than 20% when stored on racks?
Rack storage will be 30-ft maximum height. I'm assuming plastic and glass containers within cartons. There seems to be a scope gap between NFPA 13 and NFPA 30 here, just wondering what protection methods others might have used. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project fitting a backflow preventer (Watts 757) where none previously existed. Due to the tight space available, we would be cutting an existing pipe, and providing an elbow in order to gain some working space, and installing new pipe after the DCVA to an existing pipe end that currently has a grooved cap in place. Where we cut the pipe, I am anticipating welding a flange to the cut pipe to attach the new elbow with a grooved/flange adapter. The other pipe end created by the cut will require a cap. What is the best way to seal off this resultant stub? Is a welded flange the best way to attach to the existing pipe?  Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Client wants us to install a fire sprinkler system that is not connected to an automatic water supply.
This is a small marina located on a large body of water that could eventually serve as an automatic water supply, but not in the immediate future. This marina is about 4,000 sqft and I would like to provide an OH2 pipe schedule system that would clearly be identified in the contract documents and drawings that the system is not connected to an automatic water supply and therefore is not considered to be in accordance with NFPA requirements until connected to an automatic water supply or other means is provided and found acceptable to the AHJ. The end goal here is to install a system that eventually will be tied into an automatic water supply. Any thoughts? Good...Bad...Indifferent? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I got asked a weird question about NFPA 13 requiring sprinklers to be readily accessible.
A co-worker told me they didn't believe some sprinklers that would installed in a mechanical room we're designing would be easily accessible post-construction and asked if there were any kind of access requirements. I can't think of anything in NFPA 13 that would require every head be easily accessible in the same way that NFPA 72 requires certain fire alarm components to be readily accessible. Is there a requirement that sprinklers be accessible? Where does this stem from? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Ok, everyone, I've gotten myself really mixed up today. This is like one of those times where you're asking yourself "is this really how 'the' is spelled?"
This is for design intent calculations only. When you do your friction loss calcs on an extra hazard group 2, a 0.40 gpm/2,500 sqft, are you using the total flow demand minus hose connection? As an example, if I need to run 375 ft of pipe and I know that my most remote sprinkler requires 40 gpm (remember, this is only for design intent!) I am typically multiplying my distance by 1000 gpm for worst case scenario. The sprinkler contractors will do the detailed steps back to the nodes and mains. Hopefully I can right myself back up. Just one of those weird times. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Long question - in essence - is Fire Flow considered on top of a flowing sprinkler system?
Recently there was a great discussion on the forum here about whether a water storage tank size needs to include Fire Flow in addition to sprinkler demand. There were some great points made (www.meyerfire.com/daily/must-water-storage-tank-include-site-fire-flow). I have just come upon a project where we do have a municipal water supply, but it tapers off very steeply. The flow test in the area was 52 psi static, 25 psi residual at only 650 gpm. This would put the available Fire Flow around 712 gpm at 20 psi for the site. In order for the AHJ to reduce the required Fire Flow under the IFC, the building(s) nearby need to be sprinkler-protected. This would bring down the Fire Flow requirement to 1,000 gpm at 2-hours, for this setup. The sprinkler system isn't designed yet, but we'd estimate around a 550-650 gpm demand with a fire pump. This gets really interesting based on the prior discussion. When the fire department shows up on site during a fire, and then starts to pull water, is this Fire Flow in addition to the flowing sprinkler system, or considered separate? In other words, is the 1,000 gpm (for 2 hours) for Fire Flow on top of a 600 gpm demand for sprinkler (for 60 minutes)? If the water storage tank needs to meet the demand of the sprinkler and Fire Flow separately, then the calculation comes down to ~300 gpm needed to fill the shortage on Fire Flow, multiplied by 2-hours. That's a tank in the ballpark of 35-40,000 gallons. If the water storage tank needs to meet the Fire Flow as the sprinkler system is operating, that's a flow of around 1,600 gpm to fight a fire. That's as much as ~900 gpm x 2 hours to a ballpark of 100-115,000 gallons. Huge difference. I can't find any relevant code that stipulates one way or another, only that the tank must supply the sources it is connected to. Am I looking at this correctly? I see sprinkler and Fire Flow needing to be met by a tank that they're connected to, but is the Fire Flow robbing the sprinkler system, or vice-versa? Thanks so much for reading. This is obviously TLTHFR (too long, thank-you-for-reading). Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Recently a client determined that they no longer want diesel fire pumps to be provided on their projects. They want electric fire pumps with a diesel generator to ensure reliable power. (Please do not ask why state this desire.)
If a diesel generator is provided strictly for the electric pump assembly, what mechanism do you utilize to turn the generator on when fire pump needs to start up? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When using ESFR sprinklers to protect a low-piled storage/miscellaneous storage that is equivalent to an OH2 curve: what minimum operating pressure for the sprinkler do you use?
Do you just go by the nearest chart in the later storage chapters and go with the closest to your situation (so like 35 for a K16.8 and 15 psi for a K22)? Or do you just go with 7 psi like you do a standard sprinkler? The listings do not specify a minimum operating pressure except to say "per NFPA 13". Code references are always appreciated. Thank you for your time. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a standpipe demand of 750gpm. I am providing a fire pump for the system demand.
Should I be selecting a 750 gpm pump or a 1000 gpm pump, based on adding a safety factor (or other reasoning)? My sprinkler demand is less than 750 gpm so I would only need to provide the 750 gpm for the standpipes. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe UL does large scale testing reports conducted under paid private clients, and has commissioned some pretty large tests on certain fire sprinklers with a specific protected target and issue report.
How many AHJs would accept a performance-based design or something submitted in compliance with the old Chapter 21 on Alternative Fire Protection? Do you have recommendations or concerns with these alternative approaches that you wish to have addressed? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the recommended practice to protect Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS)?
NFPA 855 states that if the BESS is not a walk-in unit, then fire suppression is not required. How do you define a "walk-in unit"? If any suppression is not required in side the unit, is there any requirement for systems protecting the outside? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A thread to discuss more on Post-Indicator Valve requirements from our blog hits series. Original 2019 article link: www.meyerfire.com/blog/post-indicator-valve-required-for-my-project  What are the requirements for sprinkler coverage for baffled ceilings? In Florida we use the 2016 edition of NFPA 13. I know that the sprinklers have to be within 12 inches of ceiling for heat collection. The contractor says the pictures shown are correct. I think they need to place a 12 by 12 above the baffle for heat collection? I found 8.6.3.4 Minimum Distances Between Sprinklers.
If sprinklers are installed above and below the ceiling, a baffle needs to be installed around the lower sprinkler to avoid cold soldering. Cold soldering occurs when discharged water from the sprinkler above cools the thermal element of the sprinkler below, preventing or delaying its activation in the event of the fire. The required baffle will prevent that water from contacting the thermal element of the sprinkler, thus circumventing the possible issue. Talked to some folks and we need the product paperwork as it may mention sprinkler coverage.  Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
Does NFPA 13D require trapped air to be removed in a sprinkler system?
In the 2016 NFPA 13, Section 7.1.5, Air Venting - a single air vent for a sprinkler system, with a connection conforming to 8.16.6, shall be provided in each wet pipe system utilizing metallic pipe. I am using CPVC with anti-freeze in most residential systems. Is there a code requirement for a vent for what I'm doing? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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