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I have a 5-story building going up with 4-story residential over 1-story parking.
Can the residential portion be NFPA 13R? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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I have an old existing 3 story building with a basement that is being converted into an apartment building. It used to be a small paint factory.
The architect is calling for a NFPA 13R system, which is understandable since it has all the qualifications for 13R. However, about 90% of the building is exposed 2x12 construction sitting on 10x14 wood beams. The only areas designated to get ceilings are the bathrooms and some kitchen soffits. That leaves most of the building having obstructed combustible construction, which creates a whole series of problems. First, I cannot find any residential sprinklers listed for installation below this type of construction. A smooth, flat or sloped ceiling is required for all of them. The AHJ is using the 2019 version of 13R, and Section 6.2.1.3 allows the use of QR sprinklers in dwelling units, but only if there are no more than four sprinklers in the dwelling unit. All of the dwelling units require more than four sprinklers, so it seems to be that I cannot use 13R at all? Could someone please tell me if I am interpreting and applying these code sections correctly? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe All - talk me off the ledge, I have overanalyzed the requirement of dry sidewalls on porches and now I can't sleep until I get this answered:
Initial design of an apartment complex (3 story) called for an NFPA 13 (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system. The apartment complex will be covered in a cementitious siding and trim (non-combustible). Under NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2, sprinklers may be omitted from porches constructed with non-combustible or limited combustible materials in accordance with NFPA 703's requirements concerning non- and limited-combustible materials. The cementitious lap siding and trim exceeds the non-combustible requirements of NFPA 703. The plot thickens - the apartment design was changed to incorporate an NFPA 13R (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system instead of NFPA 13. Under NFPA 13R Section 6.6.5.1 Where a roof or deck is provide above, sprinklers shall be installed to protect attached exterior balconies, attached exterior decks, and ground floor patios serving dwelling units in buildings of Construction Type V. The building construction Type is V-B but the porches are constructed of non-combustible materials - and this configuration/condition is not addressed in NFPA 13R. NFPA 13R Section 6.6.8 "All situations regarding sprinkler location and position that are not directly discussed in NFPA 13R shall be in accordance with NFPA 13. NFPA 13R does not address exterior porches constructed of non-combustible materials - since this situation is not addressed directly in NFPA 13R it is addressed in NFPA 13 which is detailed above (NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2). So based on the above - are sprinklers required on non-combustible porches in NFPA 13R systems? In addition, if sprinklers are required on non-combustible porches in an NFPA 13R system, why would NFPA 13 allow them to be excluded - as NFPA 13 should be the more "conservative" standard? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13R Section 9.3.1 talks about accounting for domestic flow "unless provisions are made to prevent the domestic waterflow on sprinkler system activation."
We have a low-rise apartment building that is four stories tall, under NFPA 13R. The sprinkler system can be supplied via a 6-inch service from a nearby main, but when domestic (2" or 2 1/2") is added it would require an expensive run to a remote main and an 8-inch service. The MEP engineers are sort of shrugging at questions and would love to be paid to entirely re-design the system unless we tell them what to do/use. I don't know the correct terminology to find the elements of a system that would cut off the domestic tap when the fire system activates. What is that called in the trade? Am I correct in understanding that the sprinkler system has a flow sensor that activates when a sprinkler flows water, and this would then trigger alarms and as part of that, do something like activate a solenoid valve cutting off the domestic tap? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is "tenting" wet system piping (in an unheated attic) an appropriate approach to protect the pipes when the outside air temperature can drop to approximately 0 degrees F for multiple consecutive days?
In this case, the soffit and ridge vents allow exterior air into the attic space and there is no air barrier to prevent cold air infiltration. I have reviewed NFPA 13 and 13R and cannot find a definitive answer. Many thanks for assisting. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This question is regarding obstructions to residential upright and pendent sprinklers.
The 2016 edition of NFPA 13, 8.10.6.1.2 (4) states that obstructions that are located against the wall and that are not over 24 inches in width shall be permitted to be protected in accordance with Figure 8.10.6.1.2(c). This is a pretty sweet rule, as basically your only concern is the sprinkler distance from the wall and not the obstruction dimensions. However, the 2016 edition of NFPA 13R does not contain this wonderful rule, even though the rest of the obstruction rules are essentially the same. Any thoughts on why the decision was made not to include this rule in NFPA 13R? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm working on an apartment that is surrounded by a manufacturing facility. The Fire Marshal is calling it NFPA 13R.
Can I use the new incoming water for domestic for fire as well, like in an NFPA 13D system? The manufacturing facility has its own system, but is attached to the apartment. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am working on a permit for a 1,500 sqft (750 sqft/ floor) new construction live/work building R-2 in California (2022 California Building Code, which is based on IBC). It has a 1-bedroom apartment above with only "work" space below.
The building code allows for Live/Work R-2 to be protected with NFPA 13R. In the building code the only uses not allowed in the "work" area of Live/work are Group H & S. Where all of this gets hazy is that I interpret the code as 13R being allowed to protect this whole building regardless of use except for uses S or H. For instance would a small pizza joint be allowed in this "work" space as long as it did not have special hazards that would require an ANSL or NFPA 13 system? Or is Live/Work with 13R just purely limited to office, barber, professional space, etc.? From multiple angles I am trying to understand the true limits of Live/work when there are no local ordinances that limit the "work" space use except S & H. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 4-story building with Levels 2 through 4 being residential. The first floor is retail and amenities. The 4th floor has vaulted ceilings and is essentially open as a gabled roof deck.
The plan was to use CPVC for all residential floors, and at the top floor to run pipe level and extend sprigs up to catch the peak and higher roof areas. Is this acceptable? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is it worth installing a nitrogen generator for small residential dry pipe systems with less than 50 gallons?
We have about 175 homes with dry pipe systems in our jurisdiction. Would a nitrogen generator be the best solution for corrosion protection? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 4-story apartment building with commercial units on the first floor, residential on all floors above.
The architect is providing a 2-hour separation at the 2nd floor deck (concrete on a metal deck), and is requesting NFPA 13 for the 1st floor and NFPA 13R for the units above. The AHJ came back and requested NFPA 13 for the corridors and elevator lobbies on floors 2-4 to avoid separation of elevator lobbies from corridors, but still keep the draft/smoke control doors at the hoistways. Can NFPA 13 and 13R be mixed on the upper levels? Is this approach valid from a code-standpoint? Is there validation or different approaches that would need to take place to make this happen? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an NFPA 13R (2019), 4-story apartment. It's Group R-2, Class V-A construction, with open interior breezeways hallways in "garden style". Combined, all floor levels are ~60,000 sqft (~15,000 sqft per floor).
The design includes one 320 sqft storage room and about four 55 sqft storage closets in the interior breezeway per floor that tenants can rent if they choose. All storage rooms and closets have gypsum ceilings. From what I can tell, NFPA 13R-2019 doesn't really address storage like this, so I'd assume to revert back to NFPA 13 in order to protect? Is that a correct approach? Due to the combustible construction - would that trigger coverage above and below ceilings in these spaces? And then - am I permitted to tie into an NFPA 13R system, or would this even need a separate riser? We could have two scenarios - one with rooms 2-hour fire resistance rated from the R-2, and another where it's incidental and not separated. Thanks in advance for your input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a rehab of a two story with a walk out basement where they are going to expand the basement level and make it mercantile with the two upper floors being R-2.
This is Type V-B construction and they are proposing to 1-hour horizontal to separate the mercantile from the R use. They are wanting to use the standpipes as their sprinkler risers. My question is three-fold: 1. Can they sprinkler the entire building with 13R, or 2. Can they omit sprinklers completely in the mercantile if they separate from the R use by 1-hour (the mercantile by itself would not require sprinkler protection, 3. Can they sprinkler the mercantile with 13 and the R use 13R without a rated separation? I am an AHJ and only wanting to require what the Code requires. I am having trouble deciphering the requirements. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In the stairway, on the 2nd floor only of 4-story wood-framed condo (NFPA 13R), do we require a sprinkler on the “extended landing” ? In the attached image Blue is the sprinkler in question, red are the required sprinklers.  The main floor requires coverage because it has two entrances / exits from the stairway. The upper floor has full protection of the entire area. The 3rd floor does not require protection as the 4th floor does not have a extended landing. So this only applies to the 2nd Floor.
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does NFPA 13D require trapped air to be removed in a sprinkler system?
In the 2016 NFPA 13, Section 7.1.5, Air Venting - a single air vent for a sprinkler system, with a connection conforming to 8.16.6, shall be provided in each wet pipe system utilizing metallic pipe. I am using CPVC with anti-freeze in most residential systems. Is there a code requirement for a vent for what I'm doing? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do you include a loss in your flow-through tees (the straight run) on CPVC for NFPA 13R or NFPA 13 Systems?
We're finding a loss through one software provider's default setting, whereas another by default does not include a loss on the flow-through CPVC tees. We'd like to find the correct approach. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am in the process of bidding an existing building. Here is the rundown: the ground level has parking. Above that is a 3-hour horizontal separation between the parking and the first floor. Then there are three stories of apartments above the separation. I’m looking at this as two separate buildings and am proposing NFPA 13 for the parking and NFPA 13R for the apartments above.  It will also have two dry standpipes on the exterior stairwells. My question comes to sprinkler protection on the outside exit corridors and the egress travel distance. NFPA 13R Section 6.6.5 clearly states that the exit corridors are not required to be protected. Life Safety code allows a means of egress travel distance of 250' for a sprinklered building. If the building is sprinklered per NFPA 13R with the above ommision, can the 250' egress travel distance be used? Thought/Comments appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What concerns should I have about hanging from old wood? Like very old wood, almost petrified?  I'm doing an NFPA 13R job for an old historic building that has been moved. I don't know how old, but it uses full dimension wood. The 2x's look like they measure 2-inches thick.
I'm wondering what hanging to this old dry wood is going to be like? Do they need to predrill? Are screws better? Any ideas appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe With the use of CPVC, what are the limits to how much can be exposed?
I had thought that we needed to have all of the pipe concealed, and I can't see in code how this is addressed. We have a project with a temperature-controlled and insulated attic (the mechanical engineer has confirmed it will be kept above 40 degrees F year-round) in a warm climate. This is in an NFPA 13R apartment building. Is CPVC allowed to be run exposed through the combustible attic space? The attic is not sprinkler protected (NFPA 13R system, 3-story, apartments, smaller-sized project). Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can non-residential sprinklers be used in a NFPA 13R design?
NFPA 13R lists that residential sprinklers are permitted for use but does not list they are required to be used. My understanding is that sprinklers used in NFPA 13 for light hazard would exceed or meet sprinkler requirements within NFPA 13R On this premise, would installing a sprinkler for light hazard occupancy be exceeding NFPA 13R minimums, and thus be acceptable? We have a dry sprinkler system we are installing in a small existing dormitory built with combustible construction. We are using a NFPA 13R design approach which avoids sprinklering the attic space, with local AHJ approval. We need to have concealed sprinklers under request of the owner based on the occupancy, but there are not residential concealed dry pendent sprinklers, and the contractor is pushing to install recessed dry residential sprinklers. Thanks in advance. The installation contractor and I have had an argument about how sprinklers should be spaced and calculated in a 13R system.
I have argued that per NFPA 13R Section 7.1.1.3.1, we should calculate 3 sprinklers in the greatest hydraulic demand area. This area is furthest from the riser and the calculation permits 16x16-ft spacing for the area that has the most sprinklers. Section 7.1.1.3.1: For each of the following situations, the number of sprinklers in the design area shall be all of the sprinklers within a compartment, up to a maximum of four sprinklers, that require the greatest hydraulic demand: The contractor wants to remove a sprinkler in a single room and move a sprinkler 10 feet off of the exterior wall, but in NFPA 13R makes no mention of a single sprinkler proof calculation that could justify such a move. There is no mention of a single sprinkler calculation in NFPA 13R permitting a spacing of 20x20, and so all sprinklers on the project can be only 16x16 if the greatest hydraulic demand is permitting it. In NFPA 13D, it makes no mention of a single sprinkler calculation either, but does refer to single sprinkler operations in A.10.1. I did not feel comfortable designing a sprinkler system that was not up to code standards and need an outside opinion on this matter. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In the 2015 International Building Code, Section 101.2:
The provisions of this code shall apply to the construction, alteration... of every building or structure in any appurtenances connected or attached to such buildings or structures. Exception: Detached one- and two-family dwellings and multiple single-family dwellings (townhouses) not more than three stories above grade plane in height with a separate means of egress, and their accessory structures not more than three stories above grade plane in height, shall comply with the International Residential Code. The debate: Why in the world are we going to allow them to label this design as residential? The townhouse exception is seemingly being used pretty loosely around the building department. In our college community, these structures meet the requirements of a townhouse, but with obvious intent to be student housing. After looking at code....I cant say I blame these designers. I see no way to combat their argument. They meet all the code requirements to avoid the extra costs of a 13R system and only have to add an additional layer of gyp to comply!? If I am missing something, please let me know! Maybe I just need to accept them as townhouse? It sure doesn't "feel" right. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are a sprinkler contractor running into a new situation for an apartment building. The apartment is designed under NFPA 13R. We have an inspector requesting that we firestop a draft stop from the corridor into an apartment. Can you point us in the right direction whether this is required?  Thanks in advance for your help.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm dealing with a situation now where we are completely renovating an old mixed-occupancy property and the plans were drawn and approved with a 2-inch incoming service for both the residential domestic water and the fire suppression system.
Now that the fire sprinkler contractor is ready to install, and the fire chief reviewed plans for the 2-inch pipe, the fire chief says he won't approve it unless we install a minimum of 4-inch incoming pipe from the main. The architect says the city already approved the pipe size. Fire Marshal says no. Anyone have code/insight to support either way? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am designing a fire sprinkler system for a 5-story residential apartment building.
The building is Type V wood truss construction with 16" open web wood trusses. The floor/ceiling assembly is a one-hour fire-resistance-rated construction (UL listed). Sheetrock is attached directly to the bottom of the joists with wood subfloor on top. The ceiling is inaccessible (concealed). The question of sprinkler above the ceiling has come up. I don't see a need for them. There is 6" sound batting above the ceiling. The Fire Marshal does not allow NFPA 13R design. It an NFPA 13 design. Is this space required to be protected? Any input would be helpful, thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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