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Standpipe Required if Stairs are 470-ft Apart?

1/8/2024

13 Comments

 
Is there any requirement for a standpipe to be installed due to travel distance between stairwells in a 3-story R-2 building?

I am reviewing plans of a U-shaped apartment building with two stairwells on the ends. The distance between them is about 470 feet. We are under the 2018 IFC.

If not required by code, would you as the AHJ consider requiring them for improved fire operations?

Thanks for any feedback.

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13 Comments
Danial Bartle
1/8/2024 08:22:21 am

We are under NFPA 14 (2016) and the requirements are based on sprinklered or not:

Class 1

7.3.2.2.1.1
The travel distance in 7.3.2.2.1 shall be 200 ft (61 m) for sprinklered buildings.

7.3.2.2.1.2
The travel distance in 7.3.2.2.1 shall be 130 ft (39.7 m) for nonsprinklered buildings.

Class 3 is shorter distance and the distance requirements are the same in NFPA 14 (2019) and each is from the furthest point.

Reply
Chad
1/8/2024 08:34:28 am

Depends on how you (the FD) operates (I cannot imagine working where they are not required frankly). Stretching 3 stories with a 2-1/2 (or 3" with packed 1-3/4") is a PITA and time suck if you don't have 5 guys on an Engine. It sucks with 3 guys, just takes a lot longer. You should not consider 1-3/4 alone, its too long of a lay on the 3rd floor 200+ feet in, IMO.

A building that large will have several folks unable to get out on there own. Best thing you can do for trapped occupants is put water on the fire so I would want the standpipes.

Reply
Todd Wyatt
1/8/2024 08:50:55 am

Q : Is there any requirement for a standpipe to be installed due to travel distance between stairwells in a 3-story R-2 building?
A : No, standpipes are not required based on Exit Access Travel Distance (EATD) between stairways.

The scoping Code (e.g. IBC-2018, IFC-2018) determines WHERE Fire Protection and Life Safety Systems (e.g. standpipes) are required to be installed. The Referenced Standards (e.g. NFPA 14-2016 Standard for the Installation of Standpipe and Hose Systems) identifies HOW the standpipe systems are to be designed, installed, maintained, and inspected. IBC-2018 identifies (3) types of Standpipe Systems (Class I, II, & III) and identifies WHERE they are to be installed (see REFERENCES) based on building height (905.3.1) and/or if the stairway is an Interior Exit Stairways (905.4).

Q : If not required by code, would you as the AHJ consider requiring them for improved fire operations?
A : AHJs are required to interpret and enforce the adopted Codes (e.g. IBC-2018) and referenced Standards (NFPA 14-2016 Standard for the Installation of Standpipe and Hose Systems). While Codes & Standards identify the minimum requirements, the Design Professional can always provide a design that exceeds these minimum requirements. AHJs cannot require the Design to exceed these minimum requirements, however.

REFERENCES
IBC-2018
Chapter 9 Fire Protection and Life Safety Systems
Section 905 Standpipe Systems
Standpipe System Classes
[F] 905.1 General
Standpipe systems shall be provided in new buildings and structures in accordance with Sections 905.2 through 905.11. In buildings used for high-piled combustible storage, fire protection shall be in accordance with the International Fire Code.
[F] 905.2 Installation Standard
Standpipe systems shall be installed in accordance with this section and NFPA 14. Fire department connections for standpipe systems shall be in accordance with Section 912.
[F] 905.3 Required Installations
Standpipe systems shall be installed where required by Sections 905.3.1 through 905.3.8. Standpipe systems are allowed to be combined with automatic sprinkler systems.
Exception: Standpipe systems are not required in Group R-3 occupancies.

[F] 905.3.1 Height
Class III standpipe systems shall be installed throughout buildings where any of the following conditions exist:
1. Four or more stories are above or below grade plane.
2. The floor level of the highest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access.
3. The floor level of the lowest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) below the highest level of fire department vehicle access.
Exceptions:
1. Class I standpipes are allowed in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2.
2. Class I standpipes are allowed in Group B and E occupancies.
3. Class I manual standpipes are allowed in open parking garages where the highest floor is located not more than 150 feet (45 720 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access.
4. Class I manual dry standpipes are allowed in open parking garages that are subject to freezing temperatures, provided that the hose connections are located as required for Class II standpipes in accordance with Section 905.5.
5. Class I standpipes are allowed in basements equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system.
6. Class I standpipes are allowed in buildings where occupant-use hose lines will not be utilized by trained personnel or the fire department.
7. In determining the lowest level of fire department vehicle access, it shall not be required to consider either of the following:
8. Recessed loading docks for four vehicles or less.
9. Conditions where topography makes access from the fire department vehicle to the building impractical or impossible.

[F] 905.4 Location of Class I Standpipe Hose Connections
Class I standpipe hose connections shall be provided in all of the following locations:
1. In every required interior exit stairway, a hose connection shall be provided for each story above and below grade plane. Hose connections shall be located at the main floor landing unless otherwise approved by the fire code official.
Exception: A single hose connection shall be permitted to be installed in the open corridor or open breezeway between open stairs that are not greater than 75 feet (22 860 mm) apart.

[F] 905.5 Location of Class II Standpipe Hose Connections
Class II standpipe hose connections located so that all portions of the building are within 30 feet (9144 mm) of a nozzle attached to 100 feet (30 480 mm) of hose. Class II standpipe hose connections shall be located where they will have ready access.

[F] 905.6 Location of Class III Standpipe Hose Connections
Class III standpipe systems shall have hose connections located as required for Class I standpipes in Section 905.4 and shall have Class II hose connections as required in Section 905.5.

Reply
Robert Morgan
1/8/2024 10:26:18 am

"AHJs cannot require the Design to exceed these minimum requirements, however."

I agree that AHJ's cannot require the design to exceed the requirements of NFPA 14. I am under the understanding AHJ's can require standpipes when not required by the Codes based on access issues (topography or distances).

Reply
Anthony
1/8/2024 09:31:09 am

Maximum travel distance for a fully sprinklered building per NFPA 14 of any hose is 200 ft. so you'll need additional hose statins located with consultation to the AHJ. (propose a location and send them a drawing showing what you want to do don't just ask an open ended "where do you want theses")

NFPA 14-2016
7.3.2.2.1.1 The travel distance in 7.3.2.2.1 shall be 200 ft (61 m) for sprinklered buildings.

Reply
Brian Hannah
1/8/2024 09:43:19 am

Even if required, the hose valves will not likely ever be used. Operationally, it's not wise to attack a fire with a hose line connected inside the IDLH atmosphere. If a crew is on a nozzle and has to retreat, they will follow their hoseline back to a safe environment. If they can only follow it back to a spot in the center of the building, and there's no horizontal exit, their safety could be greatly compromised.

That said, this fact is often overlooked by AHJ's, who may have limited operation experience.

Reply
TYLER
1/11/2024 08:25:26 am

Great response. Makes total sense.

Reply
Casey Milhorn
1/8/2024 10:04:50 am

So are standpipes being required due to the top floor being over 30' in elevation from lowest level of fire department access?
Are you asking if an additional standpipe is required in between, or if standpipes in general should be required?
After I reread the question I started to question the question...
But I guess my question is why would standpipes be required at all in a 3 story building unless the 30' limitation was exceeded. So if there are standpipes being installed in the 2 stairwells, is it an installation being required outside of code by the AHJ? If so, I would let them make the call on an additional standpipe. From many AHJ's I've talked to, they typically don't want an additional standpipe located somewhere in the middle of the building. Most say they won't risk leaving the protected stairwell to go hunt down a hose valve cabinet somewhere. But this has an extreme amount of distance between the 2 stairwells. Anyway, lots of assumptions here and probably need some additional details on the situation.

Reply
Jesse
1/8/2024 10:56:17 am

Its a Monday so I'm not sure I understand the question.

The requirement for a standpipe has to do with height of occupiable floor. The requirement for additional hose valves horizontally has to do with travel distance.

Reply
Pete H
1/8/2024 11:42:36 am

Based on the comments it seems like:

We cannot verify whether standpipe is required without knowing the building height or other features of the building.

If standpipe is required, NFPA 14 would require hose valves at both exits as well as an intermediate hose valve between them as the travel distance will likely be over 200 feet. Or 130 feet for nonsprinklered building, but it's over either way.

Reply
Brian Merkley
1/9/2024 12:40:44 pm

Thanks for the feedback thus far. The floor of the 3rd story is 20 feet above grade. From what I gather based on the comments, IFC / IBC would not require standpipes as it's not above 30' or 4 stories. But IF they were required, they would have to comply with NFPA 14 and have to be spaced at 200' travel distance maximum.

What I realized I should also consider here is the distance between exits and that this would be the limiting factor. Per 2018 IFC:

[BE] 1007.1.1 Two exits or exit access doorways.
Where two exits, exit access doorways, exit access stairways or ramps, or any combination thereof, are required from any portion of the exit access, they shall be placed a distance apart equal to not less than one-half of the length of the maximum overall diagonal dimension of the building or area to be served measured in a straight line between them. Interlocking or scissor stairways shall be counted as one exit stairway.

Exceptions:

1.Where interior exit stairways or ramps are interconnected by a 1-hour fire-resistance-rated corridor conforming to the requirements of Section 1020, the required exit separation shall be measured along the shortest direct line of travel within the corridor.

2.Where a building is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2, the separation distance shall be not less than one-third of the length of the maximum overall diagonal dimension of the area served.

So with the egress spacing now considered and exception 2, how would you measure the overall diagonal of a U shaped building with stairwells on the ends? Would I take measurements as it were in a straight line?

Just wanted to add that this is very helpful for me to work through as a new plans examiner, and I appreciate the feedback.

Reply
Dwight Havens
1/9/2024 03:02:02 pm

This issue has bugged me for over 40 years. At one time exit access travel distances aligned well with the allowable separation between standpipes. As the building codes slowly increased the allowance for access travel distance, little consideration was given for the amount of hose necessary to reach the fire from wherever the source the hose will be connected to (standpipe or engine). To accommodate the resultant increase between standpipes, many departments upped the amount of hose available for the "stretch", be it from the engine or a standpipe. In this example, if the the stretch is from the engine on a three story building with no standpipes, it is the distance from where the engine parks, to the point of exit discharge from the building, then up the stairs to the fire floor, then down the hall to the door of the apartment, then into the apartment until you are close enough to to find and hit the fire. The alternative to that is to plan an exterior attack, where you can gain access to an adjacent apartment, or one near the apartment on fire and either enter the building through a window, or advance down the hallway to that adjacent apartment to pull an attack lien through its window. This takes time, and this second option still would, for the safety of the team, require the hose team advancing down the hall to have a hose line supplied from an engine, so why bother pulling a hose up, and require a second engine. Standard hose lays used to be 150 or 200 feet of 1-1/2. In order to successfully reach the seat of the fire in modern buildings, we pack 200 feet of 1-3/4 supplied by 50 feet of 2-1/2 preconnected, but sitting on an additional 200 feet of dead lay in case it is needed. We also pack a "long lay" for those situations where we do not know how long the stretch will be. It consists of 200 feet of 1-3/4 connected to 600 feet of 2-1/2, which can be broken and connected to the engine once we figure out where the fire is, Hauling this much hose is incredibly labor intensive, and, again, takes a lot of time.

Reply
Dwight Havens
1/9/2024 03:09:49 pm

Correction: I believe that the long lay has 5 lengths of 1-3/4 (250 feet) and 6 lengths of 2-1/2 (300 feet).

Reply



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