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We are trying to confirm sprinkler design criteria for a liquor company that has alcohol in boxes and on pallets.
The liquor is 100-proof alcohol. Trucks come in and unload in one area, where these are stacked one-high. Then, they are moved to another area and loaded on a different truck. They are not there for a long period of time. NFPA 13-2013 calls this out as a Class IV for alcohol 100-proof or less. This project being under 12-foot high with high-temperature sprinklers, is the design criteria of 0.30 over 2,000 sqft acceptable? The AHJ uses the 2019 edition of NFPA 13 and we can't find anything in there or in NFPA 30 that is similar, unless I'm missing something. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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I'm working on a 4-story multifamily structure.
The structure has one common entrance, but is comprised of four separate buildings on four separate lots, all on the same city block. There is a fire separation between each building. I've been trying to find code language indicating that each building is required by code to have a separate fire alarm system, but have not found anything remotely definitive. Would appreciate code reference/help here. Most likely going to request a variance to use one system across all four buildings, but for my personal edification would really appreciate an appropriate IBC or NFPA 72 code reference. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm currently designing for an addition to an existing pre-action system. This existing pre-action system (with three existing pre-action valves) and is connected to a 130 cubic-foot nitrogen cylinder.
How can I calculate if this much nitrogen would be enough if I added in another preaction valve? Do I need to calculate the volume of all the pipes downstream of the preaction valve? What other information should I gather? How much percentage of the piping downstream of the valve needs to be filled with nitrogen? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an oil storage warehouse project requiring a ceiling density of 0.60 gpm/sqft over 3,000 sqft.
This is basically 30 sprinklers using 1,900 gpm (sprinklers), and 500 gpm (for hoses). The municipal system is set up with three pumps that run sequentially based on residual system pressure. Each pump is larger than the last. We require Pump 3 to be in operation in order to get the required flow and pressure. We have conducted a flow test flowing two hydrants, and have not been able to kick Pump 3 into action. Assuming a K16.8 sprinkler has a 3/4" orifice, 30 heads would only equal a 4" diameter opening. If we can't activate the appropriate pump by opening multiple hydrants, how will we be able to achieve the required flow during a fire? Has anyone encountered a supply system like this before? I know that a tank and pump is a solution, but I'm looking for other options. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is it possible to calculate the travel time for water, in a dry system, from the source to the furthest part of the dry system when I only have information concerning the system volume?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm performing a shop drawing review of underground concrete storage tanks, to be used for firefighting.
We have six tanks arranged into two rows of three. 12-inch pipes connect the three tanks per row toegether, and one 12-inch pipe connects the two rows at one end. It makes a U-shape flow path down one row, and back up the other. Should two more linking pipes be added to form a complete grid, and allow more paths for water to flow? Should these linking pipes be provided with vortex plates? Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have to move pre-action valves for two different pre-action systems from their original location in the fire riser room to another area of a warehouse. The location where they are inteded to be placed is protected by ESFR sprinklers for high-pile storage hazards.
Is there any requirement to place the valves and panel in this location? Do they have to be placed in a room to avoid mechanical damage, or some type of enclosure? Can they just be in the warehouse without any code violation (we are under both FM and NFPA suppression standards)? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a requirement to monitor a fire pump or fire protection sprinkler riser room's temperature with the fire alarm system?
It is clear from NFPA 72 that the device needs to be added to the fire alarm panel if it is present. NFPA 13, 14, and 20 don't seem to have a need to monitor the room's temperature. From NFPA 72 (2016 Edition): Section 17.16.5 Room Temperature Supervisory Signal - Initiating Device. A room temperature supervisory device shall indicate a decrease in room temperature to 40 degrees (4.4 C) and its restoration to above 40-degrees (4.4 C). Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We need to provide sprinkler protection below the seating area of a hockey rink.
The frame for each seat is 2'-10" wide, and 2'-0" high, and slopes down towards the ice rink. The floor area covered varies depending upon the location and ranges from 5-ft to 15-ft. Our designer has shown sidewall sprinklers with the deflector parallel with the slope, at the high point of the underside of the bowl. The problem is the deflector needs to be more than 2'-0" below the frame in order to not be obstructed by the seating risers below. Obviously there are no sidewall sprinklers approved for this arrangement. If we use uprights instead of sidewalls, these will also need to be more than 2'-0" below the framing and I don't see this meeting the requirements of obstructed construction (thus allowing us to be 22-inches down to the deflector). Is there something in the code that will allow us to cover this area with upright sprinkerls, 22-inches below the framing, with deflectors parallel to the slope? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I don't deal with storage in fire protection systems - but I have a question regarding different storage arrangements.
When does a system have to have in-rack sprinklers? Are there always alternative solutions that an owner can use to avoid in-rack sprinklers? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can you run sprinkler pipe underground after the riser has entered the building?
The building we're working on is an apartment building that is being sprinklered to NFPA 13R (2016 Edition). The apartment is 4-story and has open air breezeways. There are dry sidewalls protecting the breezeways. The owner wants to run pipe under the slab in the open air breezeways instead of providing a heated path for sprinkler pipe across the breezeway. I have strongly recommended against this, but have gotten pushback from the owner and contractor regarding this pipe arrangement. Is this underground arrangement allowed? I believe there are some cases where this is acceptable but not many. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm having some confusion concerning credentials for inspection testing & maintenance (IT&M) of fire suppression systems.
Can (or is it allowed to have) a PE in Fire Protection Engineering perform inspection, testing and maintenance for a suppression system? Or, must the PE also meet NICET certificates (for NICET states) or whatever the local jurisdiction requires for certification requirements in IT&M of fire protection systems? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When doing a flow test for a 5-year on an automatic wet standpipe system in a building which has had significant additions over the years, which design pressure applies?
The original 8-story building and pump are from the early 1980's and was required to have a minimum residual 65-psi at the roof, flowing 750 gpm. Fast forward to the most recent building attachment to the existing fire pump, and the code now requires a minimum of 100-psi at 750 gpm at the roof. Would these additions be considered separate zones and therefore be tested individually at their specific design requirement, or would they all be tested at the original design requirements? The building is a healthcare facility and is inspected to NFPA 25-2011 per the Joint Commission requirements. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We had an insured account suffer a sprinkler leakage loss when the sprinkler system was charged with water and a sprinkler leaked.
Wouldn't the above-ground hydrostatic test have discovered this? I know the hydrostatic test is intended to discover leaks in pipes but shouldn't it also identify leaking sprinklers? The general contractor and sprinkler contractor are having to replace multiple thousands of sprinklers in these buildings. I appreciate your input! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm an AHJ and we have a local ordinance, that, when taken literally and applied literally, would require sprinklers in the canopies over gas pumps.
I am wondering if anyone has experience, or opinions, on this type of application and if it even makes sense from a real-life point of view? I am interested in hearing thoughts and opinions and if there are code references, of course that helps too. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am designing a fire suppression system for a residential building in a seismic area (BC, Canada). There is 1-1/2" CPVC pipe running down the corridor with 1" branches going into each suite. I'm using NFPA-13 (2013).
Does the 1-1/2" pipe in the corridor count as a cross-main, and thus require seismic restraint, or can it be omitted given its small size? If it does require restraint, would a Tolco 3000 clamp, 909 brace fitting, and 1" shed 10 steel pipe be acceptable? What sort of solutions are typically used for small CPVC pipe? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're coming right down to the end of the year. Thanks to all contributors on the Forum, especially these rockstars - you may not be real-world famous, but in our world you're top notch. : )
I have a high-piled storage project that falls under both the International Fire Code and FM Global. We are using FM Storage Sprinklers.
Are smoke and heat vents required? Under the International Fire Code Chapter 32, I am directed to Section 910 for smoke and heat vents. Section 910 states that if ESFR sprinklers are used then smoke and heat vents are not required. I have read several definitions for ESFR, and they appear to be essentially the same as FM Storage Sprinklers. My problem is that per the interpretation, if I follow FM Global Data Sheet 8-0 and use Storage Sprinklers, then per IFC Section 910.3 I must have the architect add smoke and heat vents for every 50,000 sqft of the buliding. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is a wet-pipe sprinkler system allowed to be used to circulate water for heating and cooling purposes?
I am designing a wet-pipe sprinkler system under NFPA 13-2019 Edition. The building owner would like to use the sprinkler system as part of the building's heating system. I can find this described as "allowed" in NFPA 13-2016, but not in the 2019 Edition. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Section 903.3.5.2 (IBC 2012)/Section 403.3.3 (IBC 2015) requires and automatic secondary water supply. I am an FPE and I work in a jurisdiction (Hawaii) that has never required this secondary water supply due to local code amendments to IBC. Recent code revisions now require this secondary supply, and I now have my first project subject to this requirement. I'm planning to meet this requirement as as follows;
Am I on the right track here? Is this primary/secondary supply arrangement viable? Does anyone foresee any code or other issues that may be a problem with this arrangement? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a fire barrier, with a fire-resistance rating of 1-hour, that has conduit passing through.
The conduit is not continuous from device to device, only used as a sleeve for the penetration. How long (continuous) does the conduit need to be past the edge of the fire barrier to maintain a 1-hour rating? My concern (however minor) is that the inside of the conduit is not firestopped, only the outside penetration. Smoke could pass through the inside of the conduit and effectively circumvent the fire barrier. Thanks in advance, big fan of the forum. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a specification for a project that required calibrated smoke testing for a project that only has two new smoke detectors.
Is there a code basis for this test, rather than just a can of smoke? This project is under UFC 3-600-01 / UFGS spec 283176. The smoke detectors are new from the factory, clean, and I find this to be a relatively useless and expensive test. Would welcome any input/insight here. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project where we're using a vertical turbine fire pump.
NFPA 20 makes reference to a 'water level' at 150% of pump rated capacity. What exactly does this 'water level' mean? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project with exposed sprinklers and pipe in a washdown area that is for full sterilization with 100+ degree water.
What are the best practices used to prevent accidental sprinkler from the hot washdown water, if any? We also have a space with waterproof (sealed) walls and ceilings using pendents and sidewalls - any tips on good practices for a room like this? On the fire alarm side, we've found plastic cover/guards that will provide a reasonable level of protection from the washdown. I appreciate any design suggestions, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a pump house that is 250-ft away from primary building. I was told that we have to maintain a 42-degree temperature inside the pump house.
Although we are in Jacksonville Florida it still gets down to the mid twenty's here and there. The doors are in really bad shape and need replaced to hold in the heat. What are the requirements for replacement doors on a pump house? Do they need to be vented? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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