From my AHJ perspective and in regards to flexible drops and tenant improvements, where you typically don't receive hydraulic calcs, how are you then accounting for their equivalent lengths and friction loss?
I know some AHJ's require new calcs whenever these are being used period. I'm interested to see how others handle this. Thank you! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Thank you all for continuing to make this Forum such a fantastic place to learn, share, and connect. Over the past year, we’ve seen some great discussions, advice, and insights that have helped shape our industry in a positive way. It’s your participation and willingness to help others that sets this community apart! We’d like to recognize the Top Forum Contributors in 2024 (in alphabetical order): As a special thank you from our team, each of these contributors will receive a commemorative plaque. They will also have a flag next to their name for future leaderboards. Thank you once again for being part of this amazing community. Keep sharing, keep learning, and here’s to another great year together! I am working on a sprinkler system where the corridor has a wooden ceiling, as shown below. Upright sprinklers protect the space above the ceiling.
I want to know whether the pendent sprinklers below the ceiling are also required? Is this an open grid ceiling under NFPA 13? The ceiling has the following characteristics: Bamboo ceiling panels with mesh void and solid wood frame with galvanized black metal rods as hangers for proper support, panels are to have a consistent panel size of 15 cm void between each panel and the wall and 30 cm void between the panels for the greenery to be hung. Can anyone help me in this case? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am hoping for some help here. I have a cold storage facility that has racks in it. Customer is adamant they do not want in-rack sprinklers. Building is 30-ft tall to the peak, storage is at 25-ft, racks are push back/drive in 29' deep with no longitudinal flue space. They are storing a Class I commodity.
Is there a ceiling-only design that's possible, for a dry system, for this? Or a direction for me to look into? It's not a conditioned space, just a big ice box. I would greatly appreciate any help or feed back, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Anyone know what temperature the sprinkler should be for a school's boiler room?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a small dry system of 196 total gallons installed in a small feed/grain storage warehouse at a Tractor Supply store. The dry valve is very close to the unheated storage area. They are using racks with commodity stored up to 15 ft high. This system is well under the 500 gallons for required water delivery time.
Is the Extra Hazard Inspectors test still required with two lines, two outlets on each line, or is a typical Inspectors test for Ordinary Hazard acceptable? I assume the Extra hazard arrangement is still required, but wanted some clarification. NFPA 13 Figure A.7.2.3.7 shows the manifold from four sprinklers and two branch lines. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe My area's adopted building code references NFPA 13, the 2016 Edition.
Should I even consider looking into the later versions of NFPA 13 (2019-present)? If there are major differences, how do we reconcile following only 2016 since the building code references it even though it may be outdated now? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is it required by IBC or NFPA 13 to have a detached fire pump room or shelter to be protected by the sprinkler system as long as the fire pump serves the sprinkler protected building?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Thank you for keeping discussions strong during the holidays. Special Shout out to our Top Contributors to the Forum for December 2024!
Are townhouse complexes (3 or more side by side and separated by fire barrier) considered R-2 or R-3?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Operationally, why would a fire department with a 1,500 gpm pump on a fire engine connect to a building FDC that has a 1,750 gpm pump?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Under NFPA 13, 2016, Miscellaneous and Low-Piled Storage in Table 13.2.1. A system designed for Ordinary Hazard Group 2 allows for 5-ft or less storage of Group A plastics, and in a separate section of the table allows for Class I- IV with a height of 12' or less.
Is it permissible to store the Group A on the floor up to 5-ft in height, with the Class I-IV above it on the racks provided the racks meet the requirements of this section? Section 5.6.1.2 on Mixed Commodities seems to address more the amount of what is being stored and not so much the arrangement. I can see both side of the argument, but I can't seem to find anything the answers my question definitively. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project with deep concrete beams which are 24 inches deep, 4 inches wide, and located 6'-6" center to center.
Building is at least 20 years old. The original contractor, I think, treated the first beam like a wall and put a row of sprinklers on each side of it. The deflectors are 12 inches down. I'm assuming they then “skipped “ the next beam. At the third beam he put another double row. And then repeated the pattern. There are 4-inch deep lights in the center of each bay. They are sticking a layer of sheet rock on all sides and the ceiling. The sprinklers are 15 feet apart. It looks like the they are just protecting the bay on each side of the skipped beam with no sprinkler lines. The middle beam obstructs the coverage. This is a light hazard area with 9-ft ceiling height to top plat panel. Should the sprinklers be calculated flowing 6'-6" x 15'-0", or, flowing 13'-0" x 15'-0"? I believe a case could be made for both. It’s an all purpose room in a school basement. I could offer them OH 1 at 6'-6" x 15'-0" without changing spacing on the branches. I could only achieve Light Hazard if 13'-0" x 15'-0" is utilized. The architect shows minor changes for small closets, a few walls, and we're changing the sprinklers to quick response. Thank You very much. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project for a Aircraft Hangar Group II. We will be designing the foam system based on Inline balance pressure proportioning design under NFPA 16 Annex material.
The protected area has been divided into 3 zones. We are using an 8" Alarm check valve with a closed-head sprinkler for each zone. So the fire line is fully pressurized with water. What proportioner should I be using? Is it an inline balance pressure proportioner or a wide range / variable range proportioner better to get the 3% concentration when foam discharge at the nozzle? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 9.3.5.11.6 states 'For longitudinal braces only, the brace shall be permitted to be connected to a tab welded to the pipe in conformance to 6.5.2' 6.5.2.2.3 specifies that 'Tabs for longitudinal earthquake bracing shall be permitted to be welded to in-place piping where the welding process is performed in accordance with NFPA 51B.'
Section 6.5.2.4.7 states ' Tabs for longitudinal earthquake bracing shall have minimum throat weld thickness not less than 1.25 times the pipe wall thickness and welded on both sides of the longest dimension.' My questions are: Is anybody using this method for longitudinal bracing? How do you calculate a brace using this configuration? Is there a tab on the market specifically for this application? Additionally, is Section 6.5.2.2.3 suggesting that tabs are only permitted to be welded in field? We do giant open warehouses where bracing typically can go exactly where the plan shows it. We fab 90% of our pipe in-house, and if we could specify the tab's location on the fab listings, we could potentially get rid of 212 pipe clamps for all longitudinal bracing. Besides the obvious install issue of 'it might not work in the exact location it's welded' - am I missing something...? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For a sprinkler pipe that is low enough above the finished floor that it could be walked into by a person of standard height, can it be wrapped in foam or soft material by code to prevent knocking one's head on it?
Alternatively, is it allowed to wrap this pipe in yellow tape or adhesive to increase its visibility to prevent running into it? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project where the Specifying Engineer has noted to have a small hose connection for periodic (maybe every 6 months) building maintenance use to wash down a water intake filter.
They have specified that it be fed from the jockey pump upstream of the jockey discharge check valve and connection to the fire pump connection, so it would seem that it would not really affect the fire protection system or fire pump discharge. However, I don't think it is a good idea, and I think a separate pump for building maintenance should be provided. Looking to see if there is any code reference I can use for backup as common sense doesn't always work or maybe I am wrong. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I work for a local fire department that does plan reviews for fire protection systems. We are reviewing a project that requires 40,000 gallons of stored water. They are proposing using multiple fire water tanks and eight 5,000-gallon tanks.
While NFPA does not restrict the use of multiple tanks, I would like to see fewer tanks than eight. I am more inclined to allow two separate tanks at the most. However, I wanted to see what others thought and if there was a standard understanding or practice to number or size of tanks to the total needed water demand. Thanks for any help. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is anyone aware of a horizontal sidewall sprinkler model that is listed for installation up to 18" below the ceiling?
I've searched high and low and can't seem to find one. This would be for a light-hazard application installed in a gypsum soffit with flat, non-combustible ceilings. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When sizing an elevated fire water storage tank for the minimum supply duration of a sprinkler system, should non-remote areas (areas closer to the tank) of the system be considered as well?
Since sprinklers closer to the tank would be under higher pressure, they would discharge more water than those in the remote area. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do you reconcile NFPA 30, 2021 Edition, Chapter 9 General Storage Requirements which reference NFPA 13, 2019 Edition, and vice versa?
NFPA 30 Section 9.6.1 says that the MAQ is doubled when the building is sprinklered per NFPA 13. NFPA 13 has the Extra Hazard Group 2 occupancy, which covers "substantial amounts of combustible or flammable liquids." The word substantial obviously makes it an engineering judgment for when EH2 should be applied. Hypothetical example: An existing warehouse is sprinklered per NFPA 13 to protect rack storage of Class I-IV commodities and cartoned group A plastics. The owner wants to store a Class III-B liquid in the existing warehouse on the storage racks. They would store more than the baseline MAQ but less than double the MAQ they get for having an NFPA 13 system. In my opinion, this storage arrangement would be out of the scope of NFPA 13, so the double MAQ for sprinklering per NFPA 13 would not apply. I'd require a protection scheme from Chapter 16 of NFPA 30. Do you disagree? What if they only wanted to store under the baseline MAQ amount? Would you require a protection scheme from Chapter 16 of NFPA 30? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe With a wet ESFR system overhead, would a double interlock in rack system be permitted below?
I would assume linear heat detection would be installed in the racks, not at the roof? These are oil storage racks and foam tray storage racks that require in-rack sprinklers. The customer has a problem with forklift/sprinkler head interaction. If allowed, I would assume the rack and overhead systems would need to be balanced. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is an annual sprinkler inspection required for a storage room with a height of less than 12' and a room size totaling 100 square feet with a single sprinkler head installed?
I have been looking in NFPA 13 and 25 but I'm not sure I'm looking in the right direction for this ruling. Please help, thanks! Moderator's Note: So sorry crew, missed the post yesterday so following up with two today. Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I hear so many times that if the fire alarm panel dies, the entire building's fire alarm system must be brought up to current code.
Can anyone educate the world on when building fire alarm systems must be completely upgraded to the current code? The International Existing Building Code (IEBC) Section 6 lists all possible combinations. Level 1, level 2, and Level 3. None of them require a full upgrade to the current code when the main panel hits its end of life. If a system was to need to replace all items in its location with a different system, reusing locations and wire, it would not meet a Level 3 requirement alone and would simply be using new equipment or fixtures that serve the same purpose. Can someone give me an actual code path that requires a full upgrade in this scenario? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When doing Calculations for a building that has a fire pump that is fed by an above-ground water tank, what do I use for available supply?
The fire Pump is 75 psi at 1,500 gpm. City water refills the water tank. City water is 104 psi static, 81 residual at 1,453 gpm flow. Do I factor in the tank by figuring the pressure created by elevation, or do I bypass the tank and use the city pressure in combination with the fire pump? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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