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A 5-story parking garage has a noncombustible ventilation shaft that is accessible through a door at the lowest level. The top of the shaft is covered by an open grate. The requirements of NFPA 13 2019 edition (Section 9.3.3) call for a sprinkler at the top and bottom of the shaft. I would like to omit one or both, but can't find a good code justification.
The sprinkler at the top will be extremely difficult to install/service, and has nothing above it to collect heat. The one at the bottom seems more appropriate in case of trash accumulation, but will need to have an aux. drain since it is served by a dry system. We all know that drum drips in remote locations behind locked doors tend to have a higher likelihood of freeze ups. This scenario doesn't seem much different than a large piece of mechanical equipment that has an access point for service and is not intended for occupancy. It's simple for me to just design it with the heads, just curious if anyone had good arguments for or against omitting them. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Any BIM sprinkler coordinators here? What is your experience in estimating design effort for BIM Coordination?
Do you charge by the head or by hour? The last hospital I coordinated took 4 hours per sprinkler. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There is a commercial structure that has been sprayed with an application of polyurethane foam insulation above drop ceilings within a Type II-B constructed building.
Cut sheets for material with liquid-applied intumescent coating would indicate it may comply with the definition of limited combustible material by NFPA 13. Based on cut sheets for applications the reference is to a Type V construction and the project that it is being utilized in is a Type II-B construction therefore we have required fire sprinkler protection above ceilings. My question is: would the application of this polyurethane foam insulation constitute a combustible concealed space, required to follow NFPA 13, Section 8.15.1.1? Section 2603 of the IBC address installation of foam. 3.3.16* Limited-Combustible (Material). Refers to a building construction material not complying with the definition of noncombustible material that, in the form in which it is used, has a potential heat value not exceeding 3500 Btu/lb (8100 kJ/kg), where tested in accordance with NFPA 259, and includes either of the following: (1) materials having a structural base of noncombustible material, with a surfacing not exceeding a thickness of 1⁄8 in. (3.2 mm) that has a flame spread index not greater than 50; or (2) materials, in the form and thickness used, having neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, and of such composition that surfaces that would be exposed by cutting through the material on any plane would have neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, when tested in accordance with ASTM E84, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, or ANSI/UL 723, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials 8.15.1.1 Concealed Spaces Requiring Sprinkler Protection. Concealed spaces of exposed combustible construction shall be protected by sprinklers except in concealed spaces where sprinklers are not required to be installed by 8.15.1.2.1 through 8.15.1.2.18 and 8.15.6. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am sincerely interested in how COVID-19 has impacted this great community of fire protection professionals that contribute to this website.
How has COVID-19 impacted your ability to do your particular job in the fire protection industry and what struggles have you had to overcome due to it? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are office privacy pods such as Framery O, Q, and Q2 required to have sprinkler protection in the United States?
Their literature says there is no need for installing sprinklers within them in Europe? Here is a link to an example: frameryacoustics.com Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 (2019) Section 9.4.3.2 states that quick-response sprinklers shall not be mixed with any standard-response within a compartment unless some conditions apply.
9.4.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 9.4.3.3, 9.4.3.4, or 9.4.3.5. Those conditions don't apply in my case and I know there's a definition of a compartment in 3.3.38. However, from a practical standpoint if the compartment in question is a corridor, would you include the adjoining offices in the compartment? These offices are likely to have their doors open and are not on any magnetic door closing devices. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do sprinkler service entry sizes have a minimum mandated size for an NFPA 13 system?
If I do not have a hydrant on an incoming line and can prove hydraulically that a 3-inch service entry works, is that acceptable under 13 or only permissible in 13R or 13D projects? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an open wood-truss concealed space above the highest ceiling and below the roof for a project that is getting sprinkler protection under NFPA 13.
The architect is proposing using spray foam closed-cell insulation to fill the entire concealed space. Does this qualify as non-combustible, such that filling the entire void would allow omission of sprinklers within this space? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I would like to double check on the coverage of attached garages in an NFPA 13R system.
NFPA 13R 2010 6.6.6: Sprinklers shall not be required in... other concealed spaces that are not used or intended for living purposes or storage and do not contain fuel fired equipment. NFPA 13R 2010 6.6.5: Sprinklers shall not be required in any ... carports, and stairs that are open and attached. There is a separate reference other than 6.6.6 on the coverage of attached garages. The way I read it, they must be covered under this standard. Please advise. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Got any information on what a cannabis extraction facility would fall under design-wise per NFPA 13?
The facility is less than 5,800 sf and may not need anything per the AHJ but I want to be sure what the correct hazard classification should be in case they do decide to put a sprinkler system in, should anyone have information more than what an "agricultural facility" is listed in 13. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 2016 Edition, Section 7.1.5 Air Venting.
A single air vent with a connection conforming to 8.16.6 shall be provided on each wet pipe system utilizing metallic pipe. Does the term "utilizing" mean that any system using metallic pipe in any part of it should have an air vent? Would a system with steel verticals and CPVC horizontals then require an air vent? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What do people typically use for estimates? Does everyone have a program like Bluebeam and Excel or do people purchase programs online?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Low-piled storage versus design /area method: I notice a quite huge difference about requirements of NFPA 13 for using low-piled storage where where is no limitation for area and the method when the virtual storage height is used to determine according to the clearance the area / density method.
For example we can have a building with a high clearance with Group A plastic storage as low-piled at 5-feet (1.3 m). Using the low-piled method, you need Ordinary Hazard Group 2 0.20 gpm/sqft @ 1,500 sqft (7.5 l/min/m² @ 210 m²) when using ara /density method, but with the virtual height you need more than 0.73 gpm/sqft (30 l/min/m² @ 230 m²). In my example, the area of low piled storage is a very huge area 170,000 sqft (10,000 m²). What is the actual criteria? Thanks for your comments. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a 5-story residential multi-family stick-built structure on a concrete podium in the DC Metro area. The building is fully sprinklered including interstitial spaces. The pre-engineered roof trusses are 30" deep with 6" of R-30 rigid insulation above the top chord of the truss. Based on the image below, can the space be protected with a wet system or would a dry system be necessary?  In regards to a dry-pipe system with a fire pump on the supply; is a jockey pump required on the wet portion between the pump and the dry-pipe valves?
I have to assume the answer is yes, since pressure needs to be maintained in this line if leaks develop over time. Please confirm/advise. Thanks in advance! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does an elevator require sprinkler protection if the building is not required to have sprinklers?
We had an electric traction unit with rated belts in a non-combustible shaft that just changed to a hydraulic elevator in a non-combustible shaft. Would ASME A17.1 or the elevator material itself mandate sprinkler protection? This project is under 2018 IBC and 2018 IFC. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am an architect and appreciate the information being shared here, very clear and helpful. We are working on an atrium and working in accordance the Closely-Spaced Sprinklers (for Atrium Enclosures).
In the details for the closely spaced sprinklers there is a horizontal distance of 4-12" from the glazing to the sprinkler - is there a separate vertical dimension that must be met? We have glass that is 11'-4" in an open/exposed ceiling that is 13'-5" high (at boundary of atrium). Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What do you all think is the most efficient way to hang branchlines running perpendicular just below pre-cast concrete tees? Concrete Sammys, HDIP inserts, maybe other ideas?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do you see standpipes and hose valves protected from physical damage in parking garages where the area is large enough to require standpipes outside of the exit stairs? Bollards? Pipe guards? No protection?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am dealing with an extremely small fire pump room with limited wall space for the controllers. The only available space to route some of the wet main piping will be directly above the fire pump and jockey pump controllers.
Do the requirements from NFPA 70 concerning dedicated electrical space apply to fire pump controllers and the fire pump piping? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project with ESFR sprinklers near a roof deck and a large, round fabric duct (similar to "DuctSox") that is below the ESFR sprinkler. The round duct is as large as 6-foot diameter on one end, and gets down to as small as 3'-3" diameter on the opposite end (the run of duct is ~140 feet long).
The duct is almost perfectly centered horizontally between two ESFR sprinkler rows, and it is also located 6'-8" vertically below the sprinkler deflectors. Is this duct considered an obstruction that would require sprinklers underneath? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Just in case you missed it, here are the results from yesterday's poll. The question was how much design effort do you (as a contractor) typically complete when bidding a project. Results were: 1 Square-Footage Estimates Only (15.9%) 2 Layout & Count Sprinklers (20.3%) 3 Layout Sprinklers & Pipe (24.6%) 4 Layout Sprinklers, Calc & Size Pipe (23.2%) 5 Layout Sprinklers, Pipe, Complete Material Lists (10.1%) Other (5.9%)  Shout out you, who make this forum great. Thanks for asking & sharing your expertise which is what helps make this field great. Here are the top contributors for March 2020:
Submitted: I recently came across a project that was out for bid and in the engineer's specifications required all bidding submitters to provide complete plans and hydraulic calculations to be submitted with their bid. I almost laughed out loud.
This wasn't a basic project (senior care roughly 130,000 sqft), but also not a project with some sort of critical design needs either. I would be curious to have a poll, specifically for contractors and their design teams, that asks about how much effort (square footage / layout sprinklers / layout sprinklers and pipe / calc & size pipe / complete material lists) they typically put into an estimate when they only get "performance-specification" or "design-build" specifications. I don't know if some engineers know (or care) how much effort goes into bidding, but I'd be interested to see what the industry as a whole does. Of course when bidding, all that time is at-risk of being completely wasted without winning the bid. In your opinion, what's the best way to address sprinkler design when there are open breezeways separating units in the same building?
Do you somehow provide a heated chase under a deck? Convert from CPVC to steel and heat-trace a run? Go back underground and potentially "under" the building? Use separate risers for each grouping, bumping up the price significantly? Residential multi-unit apartment complexes are frequently built with open breezeways in-between blocks of units. These usually have paved concrete at the bottom, only wood joists and decking for stairways and walking areas, and a covered roof at the top. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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