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Is a flow switch required on the discharge side of the fire pump on the pipe before it exits the pump room?
We have an approved job that does not have a flow switch, and the fire marshal is requiring one. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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What NFPA Standard(s) apply for two diesel generator tanks?
Two diesel generators (not emergency or standby), outside (but have enclosures) with each diesel tank stored underneath, the tank is rectangular in shape and has ~5,000 gallons of diesel fuel. Looking at the following code path; IMC Chapter 13 for fuel oil piping and storage and IFC Chapter 6--> 605.4 Fuel Oil Storage Systems --> storage above ground in quantities exceeding 660 gallons --> NFPA 31; OR IMC Chapter 9 engine and gas turbine-powered equipment and appliances. Is this approach correct? In reviewing both NFPA 37 and NFPA 31, both seem to be applicable; however, when it comes to "outside aboveground tanks" of this capacity, they both reference NFPA 30 (Section 6.3.3 for NFPA 37 and 7.9.3 for NFPA 31). So here's the main question - is NFPA 30 applicable here? I base this on a few things: 1. NFPA 30 Scope section 1.1.2 item 9 - it says it is NOT applicable to "liquids in fuel tanks of... stationary engines" ; and 2. All the boundary and tank to tank separation requirements throughout chapter 22 are based on the diameter of the tank. This leads me to believe this standard was not written for the type of tanks I have, but instead typical giant circular storage tanks.? Any insight is greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have 10+ years of experience in the design, specification, installation, commissioning and operation of oxygen reduction systems. ORS are designed to prevent fires from occurring.
The experimental work undertaken by Xin and Khan, FM Global etc is all concerned with fire suppression, using substantial fires (up to 33 kW) combusting in ambient conditions, and then trying to suppress the resultant fire. There is a substantial variation in limiting oxygen concentration (LOC) with variation in the received level of radiation at the precombusted surface, which means that the LOC is not a fixed value. Is there a recognition of the impact of the received level of radiation upon the LOC in the fire engineering community? Is there any data or study to back it up? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is involved in a 5 year inspection/test for a manual wet standpipe?
I see in NFPA 25, 2017 edition that manual wet standpipes are not required to be flow tested or hydrotested when part of the sprinkler system. So my question again is are there any specific requirements for 5 year testing for manual wet standpipes? Thank you all! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe If a bathroom is greater than 55 sq ft, but is compartmentalized into spaces less than 55 sq ft each, does the exemption from coverage apply to the compartments (assuming all other requirements apply)?
We have a bathroom where the toilet is separated from rest of the bathroom. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are thankful to our Top Contributors this November for sharing your expertise!
Is a hydrostatic test required for adding two new sprinklers to an existing system?
For this, assume it can be isolated, and the local jurisdiction refers to NFPA 13 - 2016 Edition. This is the most referenced code outside of the obstruction rule, and is the most common I've seen interpreted differently amongst professionals. Reference Chapter 25, Section 25.2. What is your "threshold" for triggering a hydrostatic test? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an R-2 convent with existing 120v smokes in the sleeping areas and they are installing a new FACP including low frequency notification in the sleeping areas.
I’ve read the commentary for IBC 907.5.2.3.3. Would you say based on this section that they would need to either replace the existing 120’s and install system smoke detectors, or change the existing 120’s to a combo audio/visual model? I'm trying to determine if the intent behind this is that the existing 120v smoke alarms now would also be required to activate visible signaling as well. Appreciate your input! Moderator: Link Directly to IBC 2021 907.5.2.3.3 Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an atrium on our project, and due to some changes in the interior design, fabrics (half circles drops) were added as shown in the attached pictures. This has an impact on my sprinkler coverage and obstruction. Can those fabrics (450mm depth) be considered as obstructed construction under NFPA 13 Section 11.2.4.1.2 (2) – NFPA 13 (2019 or 2022)? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  I am working on a fire pump station project.
As the water tank ( 2 x 50,000 gal) is dedicated to the fire pumps only, a possible stagnation is expected, and hence, a recirculation pump for the tanks will be the best solution. I saw in many forums or searches that an 8-hour refill needs to be incorporated for the pump sizing, however, I couldn't find anything solid on NFPA 22 documents regarding recirculation. Can someone direct me to the NFPA reference for the recirculation requirements? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Why is there a drastic change for limiting an NFPA 13R sprinkler system from a four-story, maximum 60 feet height above grade plane in IBC 2018 to the maximum of the top floor being only 30 feet above fire department access in IBC 2021?
Here, we have many townhomes (R-3 group) that could easily comply with the 2018 edition of the IBC, but they will exceed the top floor 30-foot limit of the 2021 edition of IBC. Also, the 2024 IBC tries to fix the drastic change by providing an exception for Group R-2 buildings by raising the top floor height limit from 30 ft to 45 ft. That's great and all, but townhouses are still considered R-3 buildings and do not qualify for the exception. How would you proceed for a townhome with a top floor over 30 feet above fire department access? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 72 (2016) Section 17.7.5.3 says a duct smoke detector is required in the supply air duct; on the other hand, the IMC (2020) Section 606.2.1 says a duct smoke detector is required in the return air duct.
Which should I follow? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Per 5.3.1.1.1.3, NFPA 25, 2014 Edition, states that sprinklers manufactured using fast-response elements that have been in service for 20 years shall be replaced or representative samples shall be tested and then retested at 10-year intervals."
What is the common practice for doing a 20-year sprinkler test sample on a multistory office building built 20 years ago that has undergone numerous tenant renovations, where sprinklers have been replaced and added throughout the years? My thoughts would be that maybe the common areas would have original sprinklers, but what would be the best way to approach this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe UFC 3-600-01 (with change 6, 2021), Section 4-29.2.1 requires a manually activated smoke exhaust system for Limited-Access Structures three stories or more in height, with 6 air changes per hour throughout the entire building.
NFPA 101 (2024), Section 11.7.3.1.2 and 11.7.3.2 outlines that if there are no unobstructed operable openings, openable from both the exterior and interior of the building, the building is defined as a Limited-Access Structure. Most DoD buildings have security requirements that do not permit operable windows, especially not from the exterior or the interior. Therefore, most DoD structures over two stories in height would require these post-fire smoke purge systems; however, I have not seen them actually being implemented on projects. Is there an alternative code path I am missing, or have you designed and installed these systems in UFC projects? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For a deluge system with pilot sprinkler detectors in a column (5 levels), where is the pilot line required?
At what levels do we need detection? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In-Rack Horizontal Barriers according to FM Global Data Sheet.
Were can I find any details about how to place the horizontal barrier using FM Global Data Sheet 8-9 Scheme 8-9a? In NFPA 13, there is a figure (NFPA 13-2016 Figure 17.1.2.9.4.2(A) ) showing this, but I can´t find any such figure in the Data Sheet. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the design criteria for exterior openings protected by a water curtain in IBC 2021?
Section 705.8.2 (protected openings in exterior walls) says that opening protection is not required when the building is sprinklered in accordance with NFPA 13 and when the exterior openings are protected by a water curtain approved for that use. "Water curtain" is not defined in the IBC or NFPA 13. NFPA 13 (2019 edition) gives design approach requirements for water curtains in Section 19.4.3, but none apply to protecting openings in exterior walls. What is the intention of the IBC here? Window sprinklers? Exposure protection sprinklers? Is there a different NFPA standard that covers the design of this water curtain? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any listed stainless steel fire sprinkler pipe, hangers, rod, or fasteners?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I designed an in-rack system, and due to the available pressure, I needed 3" diameter pipe feeding the sprinklers.
The fitter, who I respect as a knowledgeable person, thought that sprinklers were not permitted to be installed directly off of pipe greater than 2-1/2". He was not able to provide a code reference. I searched NFPA 13 and came up with nothing to confirm or deny what he was saying. I'm wondering if anyone else is familiar with this limitation. Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is sprinkler protection required at the top of a roof access shaft?
This would be located in a stairwell that is otherwise protected. We'll say the shaft is 2'x3' in plan view, and 5' from the stair ceiling to the rooftop hatch. This is in a steel structure building, with concrete block stair shaft walls finished with gypsum. A permanently attached ladder is provided. Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In NFPA 25 (2013), Table 13.1.1.2 directs us to the Testing requirements for Pressure-Reducing "Hose connections," with a frequency of 5 years.
Does this apply solely to 2.5-inch PRV Hose Valve outlets, or does it include the 1.5-inch PRV Hose Valve outlets on Class II (and Class III) systems as well? Can't seem to find specifics on that. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Section 503.1.2 of the IBC seems pretty clear that the intention that two buildings on the same lot can be considered 1 building if the comply with the height and aggregate areas comply with the height/area limitations.
However, does that also apply to Chapter 9 requirements? For example, if Building A requires a sprinkler system based on its size/occupancy, does Building B need one even if its size and occupancy wouldn't require it? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does NFPA 72 (or other standards) have any limit for the environment in which the beam detector is allowed to be installed?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I don’t often dabble in NFPA 30, so I have some specific questions regarding the protection of flammable and combustible liquids that I am having issues finding straight answers to.
I have a sprinklered general-purpose warehouse that stores flammable liquids in container sizes less than or equal to those indicated in NFPA 30 (2021) Table 12.8.1. The total quantities (MAQs) of these containers are also less than those shown in Table 9.6.1. NFPA 30 (2021) Section 12.8.1 indicates that “The liquid-container combinations listed in Table 12.8.1 shall be permitted to be stored in a general-purpose warehouse without quantity limits if protected in accordance with Chapter 16." An older version of NFPA 30 (2015) Section 12.8.1(1) indicates that if “the applicable provisions of NFPA 13 for 20ft high storage of Class IV commodities based on the storage configuration of the liquids” is used for protecting these containers, no additional protection criteria is required barring the storage arrangements are in line with the rest of the Section 12.8. My questions are as follows (per NFPA 13 -2021): 1. If combustible liquids are stored in amounts under the MAQs stated in Section 9.6.1 (and IFC) are the additional requirements of Section 16 (NFPA 30) required, no matter what? 2. If combustible liquids are stored in container sizes less than or equal to those set forth in Table 12.8.1 (NFPA 30), are the requirements of Section 16 still required? 3. Will the storage of these commodities within liquid storage cabinets negate the requirements set forth by Section 16? The bones of the matter is that I am having a hard time finding a section directly indicating that the requirements of Section 16 are not required. Most if not all sections I can find only indicate that Section 16 is to be used when something is stated. Thank you all ahead of time. As always this forum has always been a wealth of information. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am trying to find how far to provide sprinkler coverage past the edge of the above-ceiling mechanical service area. There will be mechanical units and duct work in this area, the floor is covered with 3/4" fire resistive plywood over metal studs. I would also like to know where to reference this in NFPA 13 for future use. I attached the drawings for reference the hatched area is the service area. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  |
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