Sprinkler Balconies with BBQs & Propane Tanks?

5/6/2021

I'm designing the fire suppression system for a 6-story wood frame residential building. There will be 6-ft wide balconies made of non- and limited-combustible materials. Normally that would mean sprinklers under the balconies could be omitted, but it occurred to me that people will likely have BBQs and the accompanying propane tank on their balconies.

Would this count as "combustible storage" and thus require sprinklers (dry sidewall heads), or can they still be omitted?

Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

16 Comments

Peter Howard

5/6/2021 06:43:46 am

My "hot take" would be that the bbqs likely aren't "fixed" equipment, the propane tanks certainly aren't, and any of the storage defined could probably be considered transient or miscellaneous due to the portability or size anyway.

By code, you can probably still just say external balcony, noncombustible construction, protection not required (as per 8.15.7.2 in NFPA 13 2016).

An AHJ could claim the likelihood of the grills would make them still required as per 8.15.7.5, but as there's no way for you to be certain that everyone will have a grill on their balcony, that really can't be a foregone conclusion in construction. The balconies don't exist solely for that purpose, they just will likely get used for it.

And "Best practice" regardless of code would be to go above and beyond and figure a dry sprinkler used to protect the balcony (given the likelihood of the combustible propane tanks to be kept on the balcony).

Richard Koenig

5/6/2021 08:14:57 am

I agree with the comments above and ran into a similar situation for a High Rise project several years ago. The AHJ did require dry heads cover the balcony for the reasons above and stated that some tenants my add an enclosure which would change the status from an open balcony to an enclosed room.

Mike

5/6/2021 08:15:07 am

Apartment complexes typically ban any kind of cooking/grilling on the balcony.

Joshua Freedman

5/6/2021 12:40:10 pm

NFPA 1 specifically prohibits use or storage of hibachi, grill, or other similar cooking devices on any balcony, under any overhanging portion, or within 10 ft of a structure. However, many AHJs will allow exceptions for fire resistive, sprinklered structures.

Martin link

5/7/2021 11:30:15 am

I agree sir. (at least in my neck of the woods/Balcony) I have never seen any LEGAL or authorized BBQ activity...most definitely PROHIBITED!!!

Michael Schulman

5/6/2021 08:17:43 am

How are the balconies "made of non- and limited-combustible materials" when it's a wood-framed building ?

Brian Cockburn

5/6/2021 11:08:08 am

I should have specified - the balconies are wood frame but the undersides either have metal soffits or fire rated sheathing. They are 1 hr fire rated assemblies.

MICHAEL SCHULMAN

5/6/2021 11:17:20 am

Well, my opinions come from the engineering and design side which it sounds like you are in ....
I would think a single dry-barrel (soffit or sidewall) sprinkler for each patio would not be cost prohibitive considering the possible alternatives. I counsel owners to consider the possible "human" outcomes and check with their Insurance Companies before I spend time trying to find "exceptions" or "approval letters". My motivations may be different and I don't pay for the construction so consider going above and beyond the code when it's not really an issue. Let the owner and Contractor do the VE ...

5/6/2021 08:26:01 am

If the jurisdiction follows NFPA 1:10.10.6, the grills and propane tanks could not be used or stored on the balconies.

Steve

5/6/2021 09:18:03 am

I agree with the above. NFPA 1 specifically proscribes grills and BBQs from balconies. Even if the balconies were sprinklered, there is still the hazard presented from the occupants carrying the 20-pound LP bomb up through the occupied building (including possibly using the elevators!) as well as the hazard represented from the disposal of the hot embers from a charcoal grill. The coals can appear to be out for several days but yet spark a fire when dumped into a trash can. (Can you say "garbage chute?")

Dan Wilder

5/6/2021 08:48:00 am

We exclude balcony protection (if it complies with the exceptions) with the requirement that a letter from the building owner (or a copy of the CC&R's) be provided that prohibits things like this and that gets submitted with our plans. If that letter cannot be provided, we will design & install protection on the patios via change order.

It is very clear on our prescope/preconstruction inclusions & exclusions including an alternate price so we aren't surprising anyone. Luckily, some of our AHJ's got ahead of this and require the same backup to be provided for omission of sprinklers.

Franck

5/6/2021 09:31:43 am

Have a look at:

https://www.housebeautiful.com/uk/garden/a32681989/balcony-bbq-fires/

In most areas in France, BBQ are not allowed on balconies (except electric ones).

Dale Morris

5/6/2021 01:46:13 pm

I would provide, and let them be VE'd out. Many have said that BBQ grills are not typically allowed, and maybe someone won't haul a grill up to the 6th floor.......but I'll share the tragic story of a triple decker that went up in flames on Thanksgiving in our local area; someone was outside deep frying their Turkey on the back deck, and the fryer tipped over. Building was a total loss.

franck

5/6/2021 02:54:29 pm

Don’t worry, it is not because it is not allowed, that people don’t do it in Europe.
Always the same reason : it never happened to me... or « so far, so good »
But it’s a real issue and fires do occur because of the misuse of BBQ in buildings...

Casey Milhorn

5/6/2021 03:15:24 pm

Check out Myers Balcony decision tree document. He did a fantastic job with it. So many variables depending on construction type, year of code/standard enforced, and specific construction details of balcony. Then on top of that, you do get into local and state amendments to codes/standards that could change all of that.

Jay

5/10/2021 08:21:47 am

The IFC states:
308.1.4 Open-flame cooking devices. Charcoal burners
and other open-flame cooking devices shall not be operated
on combustible balconies or within 10 feet (3048
mm) of combustible construction.
Exceptions:
1. One- and two-family dwellings.
2. Where buildings, balconies and decks are protected
by an automatic sprinkler system.
3. LP-gas cooking devices having LP-gas container
with a water capacity not greater than 21/2 pounds
[nominal 1 pound (0.454 kg) LP-gas capacity].

We consider "combustible construction" to be finish material such as vinyl or cedar siding, so a the cooking device could be within 10ft of a wood frame wall covered in cement board siding.
We have found practical difficulties in enforcing this section. We leave it up to the property managers to self police.

Sprinkler Balconies with BBQs & Propane Tanks?

Leave a Reply.

ALL-ACCESS

SUBSCRIBE

COMMUNITY

YOUR POST

PE EXAM

FILTERS

ARCHIVES

PE PREP SERIES