According to NFPA 13 2022 Section 16.9.8.2 it is to our discretion what we consider a location " where they are not subject to mechanical damage?
When installing a Post Indicator Valve, what do you consider "not subject to mechanical damage?" Where is the line drawn, so to speak? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Has anyone been asked to or required to provide sprinkler protection for at grade parking with PV panels overtop?
I've been looking online for what has been done in other jurisdictions but I can't find much. There is a lot of discussion about whether PV panels constitute a roof or not for parking garages, but my question is more along the lines of has there been research done to determine if the sprinklers can be expected to activate properly based on pitch/spacing? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Had a review comment come back and needed to clarify. I have a 14-inch city main with an 8-inch tap to a backflow in a pit. It then runs to four hydrants, and then turns into the building supplying a fire pump. The flow test at the hydrant near the tap (#1 on image below) was 49 psi static, 47 psi residual at 920 gpm. The flow test at a hydrant nearest the building (#2 on image below) was 49 psi static, 39 psi residual at 750 gpm. The 95 psi @ 1,500 gpm pump in the building is running the underground dry. The plot curve shows 20 psi at 2,100 gpm, however the pump rep said he barely got 500 gpm at 9 pitot and had to shut it down as the gauges went below 20 psi and air was starting to come out of the 2-1/2" hose valves.
This is a mystery to us - we have five different flow tests all ranging from 750 gpm to 1,060 gpm at 40-32 psi residual. Why would the pump be pulling the underground so low? They checked all the valves and rebuilt the backflow in the pit. Water meter is good as well (per the utility department). Looking for suggestions. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an existing storage warehouse designed with ESLO-20 14.5K sprinklers @ .20/1,500 sqft per the cut sheet.
The owner is installing a "Kardex Autostore" system to 16'-0" high. The existing system calcs out, my question is has anyone designed a system for these "Autostore" systems and do they require anything above an OH2? My thought is bin box storage above 12' design criteria, what's throwing me off is the design criteria in the cut sheet for the sprinkler. Something tells me the existing heads aren't intended for this type of storage. Anything helps, thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe The difference between "Should" and "Shall" statements is clearly understood by most of us.
How about "Shall be permitted" (for instance NFPA 13, 2019 9.3.2.2)? Splitting frog of hairs but I'm guessing that it equates to "May be allowed"? How do you interpret this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does a trash chute sprinkler riser have to have its own control valve and flow switch?
I've only seen ones with a control valve (ball valve) only. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project with non-gender specific toilet stalls/water closets. I am of the opinion that NFPA 13 does provide an exception for having to install sprinklers within each water closet. However, this project is has the water closets in restrooms which are not within a dwelling unit, so no relaxation is given in NFPA 13 for dwelling unit bathrooms. As I understand NFPA 13, a sprinkler would be required within each of these water closets. Do I believe it’s overkill? Yes, but until it is addressed in NFPA 13, there wouldn’t be much to do about it.
What is your opinion? Non-gender specific toilet facilities are becoming increasingly common, see a conceptual layout below. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 (2019) Section 9.4.3.2 states that quick-response sprinklers shall not be mixed with any standard-response within a compartment unless some conditions apply.
Section 9.4.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 9.4.3.3, 9.4.3.4, or 9.4.3.5. If a quick-response sprinkler is a type of fast-response sprinkler, then not all fast-response sprinklers are quick response. So my question is: can I mix standard-response with fast-response heads? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project with Miscellaneous Storage of Class I commodities up to 12'-0" and Group A plastics up to 5'-0".
The water supply is a tank fed from a well. Based on NFPA 13-2016 Table 13.2.1, I designed to Ordinary Hazard Group 2 with a 90 minute duration of available water. My original demand was 57 psi at 385 gpm. Our pump supplier provided a vertical in-line pump rated to 80 psi 400 gpm. The client is now unhappy about the volume of water being required so they are removing the Group A plastics from their building so we can calculate to OH I with the new demand being 41.5 psi at 304 gpm. We have already installed most of the system and the pump is ready to be delivered soon. Is it okay to have an oversized pump? Can it be limited to a smaller flow to accommodate the new demand? My worry is that it will flow at the rated capacity and if we are sizing our tanks 10,000 gallons less than originally planned we would run out of water. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a building with an Extra Hazard Group 1 in a fairly rural location. We have an Electric, Diesel and Jockey (electric) pump system.
We had our diesel go out, sent away for repairs. What are the requirements for just having just electric in place? My concern is is the fire department cuts power if they come on site for industrial fire, or lose power due to weather, then we would have no suppression in service. The fire department can provide 1,500 gpm at 100 psi from a Type 1 engine through the FDC, (so 750 gallons). We have a pond to draft from. What would be the considerations? Amount of water available? In the event of power loss, the size of the FDC versus the size of the riser (a 6-8" dry pipe valve)? What would realistic attack line demand be for a hydrant/hose line? Can you think of anything else I'm not thinking of? Thanks in advance for the help! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a minimum clearance requirement in NFPA 13 between structural steel and steel sprinkler pipe?
Area is not subject to earthquakes and the structural engineer want to strap the pipe directly to the steel like CPVC is strapped to wood. I've always been of the understanding that steel pipe must be hung, strapped to Unistrut attached to the structure, or supported on a trapeze, but I can't find where in 13 (if it exists) that says I can't use a strap. Obviously the fittings/couplings will prevent the pipe itself from contacting the steel. Trying to get the pipes as tight as possible to the sloped structural members and even using 1-5/8" unistrut with pipe clamps is getting pushback. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can a flow meter be installed in test header piping?
This is the first time I've ever seen this installation. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am in the process of designing a fire protection system for a whiskey distillery (making of, bottling, shipping & receiving). This project is a full blown distillery with fermenting tanks, barrel filling room, barrel storage etc.
I've looked at NFPA 13 & NFPA 30 as well as some FM Global Data Sheets (7-29 & 7-74) and cannot locate the correct hazard and commodity class to use. I have high piled storage and the storage of flammable liquids. What is the appropriate commodity classification and hazard to use for whiskey barrel storage? Maybe I'm in information overload at this point and looking to deep into it. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a private water main feeding a combined domestic and NFPA 13 system that was specified as C900. They installed SDR21 (6") instead.
They are using the argument that this 200 psi rated pipe will not be subject to the fire system pressure and therefore is ok. I cannot find where this is listed for fire service mains. Any direction? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a specific location requirement for a fire pump test header? NFPA 20 states that the header must be installed on the exterior wall, and outside the fire pump room. Does this mean that the test header cannot be installed in the fire pump room? Additionally, can the test header be directly connected to the pump discharge flange as shown in this photo? I have never seen this type of installation before. Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For draft curtains in a warehouse protected by ESFR sprinklers, is there an NFPA standard directing us on the need to fill the gap that occurs between the top of the draft curtain and the underside of the roof deck?
Traditionally I have seen this gap stuffed with mineral wool. If there is an NFPA code reference, though, please share so I can make sure we're going about this correctly. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a threshold of percentage-opening that would allow sprinklers to be omitted below a grill or something similar - like a metal grated catwalk?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any adopted or proposed sprinkler design criteria for Electric Vehicle charging stations that will be included in new parking garages?
The 2022 Edition of NFPA 13 is increasing the design for parking garages from Ordinary Hazard Group I to Group II, but I have not found anything about protecting the charging stations. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a new construction building that's wood frame (Type III-B), and we have an 8-inch horizontal standpipe. It's hung from wooden trapeze (two 2x4's) spanning wood floor trusses. Per NFPA 13-2019 Section 17.1.7.1, hangers and their components shall be ferrous metal.
Is a ferrous metal trapeze (steel angle or pipe span) permitted to span wood floor trusses? If so, must the trapeze avoid attaching to the web components of the truss? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I understand if a duct is wider than 4-ft (1 m) that there needs to be a sprinkler under the duct.
But what if the duct is just below the ceiling? Does a sprinkler also need to be above the duct? I have a group of ducts with a combined with of 16'-6" (5 m) with the highest point of the duct 10 inches (25 cm) under the ceiling. Does there need to be a sprinkler above and below the ducts? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I purchased a commercial condo recently. It’s been vacant and unfinished since 2013. It’s a shell, picture is below. It has 5 residential condos on top and 5 commercial condos on first floor, in a 3 story building. All residential units were sold and have been occupied since. One commercial unit was also built and has been occupied as a salon with a U & O. There are no sprinklers, no fire room. They were going off of 2006 IBC code.
My architect prepared stamped plans with no sprinklers using the separated building scenario. It has a 2-hour horizontal separation, 3-5 hour vertical, no access to second floors. The plan was denied for sprinklers to be installed. Now, I certainly understand safety, but it’s almost impossible to install now after 12 years. Can you help me decipher mixed use B (1st floor) and R-3 (2nd and 3rd one unit)? Is this approach allowed by code, or is the code official correct? Is a self-contained fire area allowed to be its own building? Please help, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does anyone have experience in designing suppression for a warehouse that will store boats on racks?
I will appreciate any information. Which standard would even be applicable? Do we treat them like high-piled combustible storage per Chapter 32 of the IFC? What will be target hazard considering the fuel in the boat? Is there any limitation that how much they can keep inside the boat? Thanks for the input on this; I'm having a hard time on where to get started. Editor's Note: A Fire Protection Research Foundation on Marina and Boatyard Indoor Rack Storage Sprinkler Protection has been submitted and can be viewed here: PDF LINK Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can full height walls within a room create an obstructed construction situation in an otherwise unobstructed construction building?
As an example, you have a room with full height walls and a single exposed beam (in noncombustible construction) with the distance from the centerline of the beam to both parallel walls less than 7'-6". If allowed to define this as obstructed construction, a single sprinkler 1" to 6" below the bottom of the beam may be sufficient. If not, it may require a sprinkler on both sides of the beam. In a multiple-office type of occupancy this could save a lot of sprinklers. This example is assuming following all the rules for obstructed construction and the depth of the beam being such that you can't use the obstruction to sprinkler discharge rules to avoid the obstruction. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Topic: Water Delivery Time in Single Interlock Preaction Systems Question:
I'm currently designing a single-interlock preaction system and I'm seeking clarification about the water delivery time requirements under NFPA 13 (2013). Section 7.3.2.2 mentions that the system size cannot exceed 1,000 automatic sprinklers but doesn't specify the water delivery time for single interlock systems. On the other hand, Section 7.3.2.3 clearly states that double interlock preaction systems must deliver water within no more than 60 seconds. Does this mean that single interlock systems are not required to adhere to a specific timeframe for water delivery? In my view, it makes sense to not include a delivery time for single interlock systems, since water should already be at the sprinkler prior to activation. I'm interested in others' views or experiences in this area. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a building that has both a free standing fire department connection (FDC) and a post-indicator valve (PIV) out at the drive entrance to the single-story building as requested by the Fire Marshal.
Construction has now started up for the site and the Fire Marshal is saying there is a code requirement for the PIV and FDC to be 50-ft apart and wants them moved. He is unsure of the exact distance, but he insists this is a code requirement and that it's not a local requirement. For reference, we are under the 2015 IBC/IFC and 2013 NFPA code editions. Is there any requirement for the PIV and FDC to be 50-ft apart? I cannot find any requirement like this in the IBC, IFC, or NFPA 13 or 24. There are sections in both NFPA 13 and 24 that vaguely say PIVs shall be protected against mechanical damage, but they give no minimum distance from objects. IFC/IBC both list minimum 36-in clearance around the FDC. I think the Fire Marshal might be confusing the 40ft requirement from buildings for the PIV, or, this is a local preference, but they do insist otherwise. I know at the end of the day the Fire Marshal gets whatever they want for the PIV and FDC placement, but I really want to make sure that there is not some hidden requirement I cannot find. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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