A Maximum Required Time To Close a Valve?

11/17/2022

Hi All, Is there a code reference on the maximum amount of time allowed to close a wall PIV (or any valve for that matter)?

I have a Wall PIV that is hard and slow to turn, and takes about 30 minutes of fighting to fully close. Servicing of accessible components has not helped.

I probably won't be able to get funds to repair/replace unless I can quote a code violation.

I have only found a minimum amount of time, but nothing for a maximum. Thanks in advance!

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11 Comments

Dan Wilder

11/17/2022 07:53:35 am

Nothing I am aware of. Minimum is 5 seconds, that I know.

I would reach out to the MFG for their recommendations and get something signed off that the owner is aware and is unwilling to remediate (some word smithing of course). A valve that closes that slowly likely has a huge amount of torque or shear on components and failure of those components (likely some coder pin inside the valve) in the event of actually needing to close the valve will be exponentially more costly.

...Unless you are manually closing a >48" valve or your ITM contract is T&M?

Adam

11/17/2022 08:10:46 am

If this valve needs to be closed in an emergency, 30 minutes of uncontrolled flow can cause a lot of water damage, and disrupt operations/productivity for an indefinite period of time. Perhaps a replacement could be justified on this basis?

Franck

11/17/2022 08:14:34 am

The minimum is to avoid a waterhammer effect if closing too quick.
There is no maximum requirement, but 30 min is definitely too long ! I would not go further to a minute. Imagine you have a pipe break : this means you will flow water, possibly on sensitive equipment, for a very long duration.
Or even after a fire has been controlled: more water damages and water to possibly collect and treat.
This valve needs to be replaced

Glenn Berger

11/17/2022 08:15:45 am

You might be able to use NFPA 25 Chapter 13 as a valve that has been damaged. Any time of coercion or supplemental lubricant requirement are proof of a damaged valve. But as for a hard and fast rule about timing, I am not aware of one.

Matt Couto

11/17/2022 08:19:10 am

I think you might be coming at this from the wrong angle. The minimum time requirement (to my knowledge) is to prevent water hammer.

A few different approaches might:

Insurance/Loss Prevention: Think from an insurance standpoint. Do a little math on the type of sprinklers this PIV serves and explain the potential for water damage (pick the highest hazard sprinklers and explain that there will be a MINIMUM of x gallons of water every minute, flowing for 30 minutes. Explain that an insurer would have a difficult time paying a claim where the damage could have been lessened by repairing/replacing a shoddy system component.

Code Requirements: I'm not sure what your locale is but I'm sure there must be a code requirement to 'maintain in operating condition'. It can be argued that the valve was not intended to operate this way and as a result should be repaired or replaced.

Cost savings: Surely there are annual testing requirements that are fulfilled by outside fire protection contractors - repair or replacement of the valve will reduce the amount of time billed for the service (reduce the amount of man-hours required)

I'm sure there's more ways to look at it but that's all I've got off the cuff

Jesse

11/17/2022 08:27:51 am

Clearly the valve is damaged. While you may not find a coed reference, having the purse holders consider 30 minutes of uncontrolled water flowing inside the facility as someone wrestles the valve.

Evan Lesh

11/17/2022 08:46:29 am

This should definitely be repaired or replaced for many reasons.

From NFPA 25 (2020) Annex A 13.3.3.2

“… If the valve cannot be closed and reopened using the proper wrench with reasonable force, then some maintenance and/or repairs are necessary so the valve can be operated when needed in a fire event.…”

11/17/2022 02:37:19 pm

Thanks, as "unreasonable force" is necessary to operate the valve, I can reference this code as need for repair.

Eric R

11/17/2022 10:00:21 am

Since it's clear we all agree that this is unacceptable, here are some of my thoughts on how a contractor should handle this kind of situation to protect their liability.

1. If the valve exercise is part of an NFPA 25 inspection, make sure you are documenting clearly that the valve is in poor condition with a note on your report stating: "Wall valve is extremely difficult to operate, and should not not be relied upon to control waterflow for this system. There is significant risk of this valve failing to close during an emergency, and/or failing to re-open after future maintenance tasks, which could cause the system to be impaired until the valve is replaced."

You should also make sure you have a SOP in place that collects an owner's signature stating they have reviewed all deficiency notes, or at-least have an email paper-trail showing you notified the owner that the problem exists. Beyond this, you really cant force the owner to replace the valve, so just make sure your inspection fee covers the amount of labor time time it takes to exercise the valve.

2. If this valve exercise is part of renovation work then the contractor should write a letter to the owner along the lines of:

"The wall valve that controls the sprinkler system we are modifying is in very poor condition, and can only be closed using excessive force. There is significant risk that during any future closure the valve may break and impair the fire system until the valve is replaced. This letter is to inform you that [contractor name] will not be responsible for any costs incurred due to this valve failing to perform, including but not limited to: Project delays if system can not be drained to continue work, fire watch or closure of business operations required by AHJ due to system impairment if system can not be refilled, and/or excessive water damage from an uncontrolled flow in the event of a future sprinkler head activation."

Get the owner to sign the letter, and also potentially say that you need a change order for an additional hour of labor cost added to each day for opening and closing the valve.(this may or may not be worth the battle depending on how many more times this valve needs to be shut)

It is far to common for contractors to just struggle through in these kinds of situations without wanting to make waves. Which is all well in good, until one of the above events actually does occur and the contractor suddenly finds themselves in a lawsuit for hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now!

Ronnie Morales

11/18/2022 07:35:46 am

NFPA 13, 2022
7.6.1 Valve Closure Time. Listed indicating control valves
shall not close in less than 5 seconds when operated at maximum
possible speed from the fully open position.

Panos

11/19/2022 12:24:11 pm

This is a crooked valve, get it repaired or replaced.

Fire Protection Standards set minimum time limits to valve operation for two reasons.

One is to avoid a water hammer and another one to avoid getting somebody's arm cut in half due to a valve kicking back during operation.

A Maximum Required Time To Close a Valve?

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