How Best to Actually Fight Electric Vehicle Fires?

10/14/2022

With electric vehicles taking the world by storm, how do you anticipate killing fires on these vehicles?

What elements are crucial on the firefighting side?

Battery explosions can happen anytime and anywhere, but what measures should be considered?

A wide question I know, but this is something I'm battling with as an AHJ. Thanks in advance.

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18 Comments

Chad

10/14/2022 08:20:20 am

You cannot extinguish the battery cells as they let go and form a jet fire. Period, full stop. Doesn't matter if its a car or a scooter.

For hybrids, you just let them blow out and extinguish it like a regular car fire afterwards.

The full electric ones are the real problem.

Again, you are NOT putting it out while the cells let go, the flammable electrolyte in the batteries is too volatile once heated.

Sprinklers may keep it in check in a building but you will have to drag the car out and let it burn to a point its manageable. These fires are going to ruin whole floors of other cars. Its a crap sandwich.

If you can keep the battery pack cool enough to prevent thermal runaway to adjacent cells it still leaves with a hazard. The prevailing fix is to flood the battery case with salt water. easier said than done. One idea is to get the car (assuming the battery case is relatively intact) into a container and fill it a foot or two. The salt water will discharge the cells and keep them cool while that happens. Otherwise it may just keep rekindling itself.

Dan Wilder

10/14/2022 08:21:03 am

This is more for the technology as a whole, not specific to just cars however...but to short answer you, lots of water for suppression, getting the battery pack(s) isolated/discharged if possible, and thermal runaway/off-gassing stopped.

On a larger scale

First step will be at the cell or pack battery level (either by the MFG or specialty 3rd party contractors) using something like Aqueous Vermiculite Dispersion or similar new tech chemical integrated into the battery casing or added on after. Maybe there will be some new approach to kill the electrolyte solution in the case of thermal runaway and prevent any further damage (think those hot/cold smack packs to change the composition of the solution*).

https://www.avdfire.com/

Next is on the suppression level where is just going to be putting a lot of water on and around the fire to prevent spread. While water is the most basic level of protection, things like gaseous discharge are problematic for high traffic areas for containment and preserving concentration levels (not to mention the life safety aspect for people in the area). Water mist (localized) can also be helpful (with N2), to prevent some spread but the same issue with keeping concentrations.

Alternate approaches like vehicle fire blankets are useful for the one-off events, but not in close proximity areas and you run into the training of personnel.

https://vehiclefireblanket.com/

Ventilation/detection is crucial during the event and post incident to avoid issues like back draft explosions (search APS battery explosion) and/or toxic chemical off-gas build ups.

Other issue is reignition after the fact which many of my local AHJ's have started making the repair/salvage yards put the cars in separate areas, within containment berms or large clear distances until the battery packs can be pulled and then separated/isolated again.

*if you are way smarter than me on a chemical level and that gave you an idea, just hook me up with a little royalty nod...

chad putney

10/14/2022 08:36:29 am

Salt water after, its the most effective mitigation if you still have cells intact. Vermiculite is hoping to insulate and delay propagation/thermal runaway in adjacent cells. Its not great do to the pack densities.

Jacob

10/14/2022 08:24:16 am

I came across this article the other day. It shows using a giant fireproof blanket to smother the fire. It's not exactly an "automatic" method like a sprinkler system, but it does seem efficient in terms of resources, ease of transport, etc. Though to be fair, I don't know how these blankets are constructed.

The comments offer some interesting ideas as well.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/could-a-giant-fireproof-blanket-be-the-solution-for-stubborn-ev-battery-fires

chad

10/14/2022 08:34:24 am

They will slow the fire and confine it....briefly. It also requires two people to get right next to the burning vehicle. A lot of hotel franchises are pushing this as a bridge until the fire department shows up. But its a losing battle when its inside.

Max, R

10/14/2022 08:27:07 am

“In each of the six full-scale burn tests, firefighters at the test site found that they needed to flow large amounts of water on the batteries, because fire kept flaring up even after it appeared to be extinguished. In one test, a battery fire reignited 22 hours after it was thought to be extinguished. Telsa even has a special Guide for emergency response. here is the Scary part.

"Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider
allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures."

chad

10/14/2022 08:31:48 am

My point exactly... you have to get the car out of the structure. Its often better to let it burn than extinguish once there are no exposures. As uncomfortable as that is for most FD's. Of course in denser urban areas this may not be possible. So you have to flood it... but the run off is now a hazmat situation. And you have to tie up a fire engine or three for up to 24 hours.

Max, R

10/14/2022 08:53:28 am

This is where regulations will need to step in.
Requiring any vehicle or vehicles parked stored, or charged indoor or to adjacent structures be in or provided a appropriate fire rating material be used or space provided for. issue comes in municipalities encouraging businesses to place the large volt multi vehicle charging stations in close proximity to the structures. As a rural firefighter myself I shake my head when i pass a charging station within 10" to 15" of a restaurant with no easily visible electrical cut off.

chad

10/14/2022 08:57:42 am

Agreed, treat them like transformers, separate with 3 hour constrictions and add dedicated smoke control. But that is so pricy it will never fly.

I've got brand new subbasement parking garages with EV charging stations and there is nothing in the code (besides the imminent hazard or the AHJ is god card using NFPA 1) that will allow us to prevent it. Moreover, its politically unpopular to speak ill of EV in any form, no matter how dangerous they are right now.

Frustrating.

Aaron

10/14/2022 10:20:12 am

If Elon Musk build it I'm sure he could fix it!

Danial Bartle

10/14/2022 10:33:49 am

Here is some information from Fire Fighters Close Calls and Chief Billy Goldfeder. There was a symposium in NY on these types of calls. It is a google drive link to presentations, information, and some contacts at NFPA

Here is additional and updated information from the FDNY and the google drive: Lithium-Ion Batteries: Challenges for the Fire Service.
The FDNY foundation symposium was presented with our partners from the NFPA and UL’s Fire Safety Research Institute.
The Symposium Google Drive includes:

-Presentation Summaries and videos.
-Instructor Bio’s
-Additional training offerings from UL’s FRSI & NFPA
-Vendor and product information discussed during the symposium & who supported the symposium.
-FDNY Publications including “Tips From Training” WNYF articles, training videos and FDNY Pro Podcasts.

The FDNY and its partners are presenting this material to inform the community about this new challenge for the fire service.

HERE IS THE LINK:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zG1se9zzFwlPk-0QS0R8llfftjxY4UdT

Some phenomenal information that applies to each and everyone of us, our departments and those we protect.
Take Care. Be Careful. Pass It On.
9/17/2022-1508 Hours via
www.FireFighterCloseCalls.com

Franck

10/15/2022 03:32:00 am

Many thanks Danial for sharing this very useful information.

There's so much to learn on this growing concern.

I was at a nuclear facility in Europe this week and the Fire Chief was experiencing some issues with the installation of new charging stations for electric vehicles. As a firefighter he was concerned for possible battery fires and not having these charging stations too close the buildings and important structures.
But he has bad time fighting against the Managament as "Electric vehicles are the future". Sic !
At the moment, the only additional equipment he has is one fire blanket in the fire truck... In case something happens !
And he is concerned about the future situation when more and more EV will be present on site.

In China, where over one third of the world's electrified fleet of vehicles, there are approximately 7 battery electric car fire per day since the bginning of 2022 !

https://batteriesnews.com/7-battery-electric-cars-day-catch-fire-china-most-involved-brands/

Mike

10/14/2022 10:37:55 am

Dumb sand on them. Huge amounts. Highly impractical for a municipal brigade or automatic system. Maybe Purple K but it seems obvious water is not the solution.

Franck

10/15/2022 10:09:53 am

Unfortunately, water (huge amount for a long duration) is the only practical solution so far.

Puts firefighters at risk, blocks circulation for hours, does not prevent possible further reignition, does not prevent fully the thermal runaway nor the emission of toxic gases... But what else ?

This is a situation where the hazard is known but the perfect remediation is not.

Franck

10/14/2022 11:28:40 am

With current battery technology there is no satisfactory answer.
Once it started, it requires huge amount of water. And once extinguished, well it could start again several hours after. It happened on a towing truck (hours after extinguishment) and deposit yard (sometimes more than 24 h after).
Fire blanket is fine if only one vehicle involved, no car parked aside and put the firefighters at risk if the thermal runaway happens. And only as a “temporary” solution until huge amounts of water is available.
In the Netherland, the firefighting procedure is to bring a container full of water and put the car inside.
In France, Renault (a car manufacturer) provides 2 access point (thermal elements that open a hole) to flow water directly on the battery area.
In Belgium, firefighters have asked to ban electric vehicles from closed parking structures. Same in some cities in Germany.
But no miraculous solution.
Maybe the next battery technology?
In the meantime: growing concern as more and more EV are on the market.

Rick Boisvert

10/14/2022 03:29:22 pm

Check out this resource from the International Association of Fire Chiefs. You have to click on the document to download it. They are also working on one for fixed ESS systems

https://www.iafc.org/topics-and-tools/resources/resource/fire-department-response-to-electrical-vehicle-fires

James Art, FPE

10/19/2022 11:38:50 am

The links to NY presentations look great.
But when I looked, I didn't have the audio?
IS it there?
How do I hear the presentations?

AND many EV's have battery disconnects, should know where.

Janet Washburn

10/19/2022 01:08:00 pm

I'm on the West Coast of Florida. The State Fire Marshal and IAFF presented an excellent webinar today on EV fires as we've experienced many of them with the plethora of submerged vehicles. Here is the link:

https://click11.bigmarker.com/links/bOejMk15irQ/fb9pfXK4a/ilEfrMSyLpx/zm5C2Owq8y?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigmarker.com%2FFireChiefs%2FResponse-to-Electrical-Vehicle-EVs-Battery-Incidents-After-Hurricane-Incident%3Fbmid%3Dff5e2958ab42

How Best to Actually Fight Electric Vehicle Fires?

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