Standpipe Required In-Between Far-Apart Stairs?

10/17/2022

I am reviewing a set of fire suppression drawings from another engineer that is working as a sub to the sprinkler contractor. We created an outline of the fire suppression requirements (a performance spec) and then the contractor hired another engineer to finish the design.

The building is a 6-story wood frame residential project.

There are two exit stairs each with a Class I Standpipe and 2.5-inch fire hose connection (FHC).

The building is an 'L' shape and the total travel distance from one FHC to the other is approximately 300-ft (91m).

There is a 2-hour fire-resistance-rated wall part way along the corridor (124-ft from one FHC, 174-ft from the other).

The contractor's engineer is calling for an additional third standpipe next to the 2-hour rated wall - is this required or not?

I'm not sure how to interpret Sections 7.3.2.3 and 7.3.2.3.1 of NFPA-14. The project is in BC, Canada; and we're using NFPA-14 (2013 Edition). I have attached a markup of a typical floor plan.

Thanks in advance!

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13 Comments

Dan Wilder

10/17/2022 08:04:12 am

Based on the picture alone, first thought is that the center stair (likely an exit stair) is missing a required hose valve per Section 7.3.2 (1). With that location having a valve, you might be able to omit the third HVC on the floor.

If the 2 locations on the "legs" of the "L" are accurate, then yes, a third HVC would be needed based on the distances shown.

Every layout I have completed is based on 100' of hose lay (including any elevation changes up from a midlevel vs main level stair landing) and 30' of hose spray. This means the hose nozzle at the end of the 100' needs to pretty much be at the door into the last/furthest room on each level and hopefully the room is no deeper than 30'. We start with the required locations (the Exit stairs) and add additional locations for the areas lacking coverage.

Corey Eppinghaus

10/17/2022 08:10:27 am

The BC building code will have requirements for placement and coverage please see below.

3.2.5.9. Standpipe System Design
1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) to (6), Articles 3.2.5.10. and 3.2.5.11., and Sentence 3.2.4.9.(2), the
design, construction, installation and testing of a standpipe system shall conform to NFPA 14, “Installation of
Standpipe and Hose Systems.”

3.2.5.10. Hose Connections
1) Hose connections shall be located in exits, in accordance with NFPA 14, “Installation of Standpipe and
Hose Systems.”
2) Hose connections are not required within a floor area.
3) Hose connections shall be provided with sufficient clearance to permit the use of a standard fire department
hose key.
4) Except as permitted by Sentence (5), 64 mm diam hose connections shall be installed in a standpipe system.
5) Hose connections for 64 mm diam hose are not required in a building that is not more than 25 m high,
measured between grade and the ceiling level of the top storey and in which an automatic sprinkler system is not
installed.

3.2.5.11. Hose Stations
1) Hose stations for 38 mm diam hose shall be installed for a standpipe system in a building that is not
sprinklered throughout.
2) Hose stations for a 38 mm diam hose shall be installed for a standpipe system within every floor area that is
not sprinklered throughout. (See Note A-3.2.5.11.(2).)
3) Hose stations shall be located in the floor area within 5 m of exits and at other locations to provide coverage of
the entire floor area.
4) A hose station located on one side of a horizontal exit shall be considered to serve only the floor area on that
side of the horizontal exit.
5) A hose cabinet shall be located so that its door, when fully opened, will not obstruct the required width of a
means of egress.
6) Where a building or part thereof is used as a distillery and the building is sprinklered in conformance with
Article 3.2.5.12., small hose (38 mm) stations are permitted to be supplied from interior sprinkler piping.
7) Where a hose station is provided in grain handling and storage facilities in which combustible dusts are
produced in quantities or concentrations that create an explosion or fire hazard, fog and fine spray nozzles shall be
used instead of nozzles that discharge a solid stream of water to prevent combustible dusts from being raised into
suspension.

Glenn Berger

10/17/2022 08:13:20 am

The drawimg is not marked correctly. The 124' and the 174' needs to identify the distance that it is measuring. In this case it is the top/bottom dimension and then the left/right dimension.

I assume that at the plan left side is an exit stair for which the FHV is located. It is not marked. As Dan mentions, is the stair near the ben an exit stair, for which a FHV needs to be located?

Three hundred feet between FHV is excessive and needs an intermediate valve.

Moderator

10/17/2022 08:45:46 am

Just updated the image, refresh to see it. Stairs are now marked correctly, thank you Glenn!

Jesse

10/17/2022 08:13:28 am

I agree with Dan. Looks like the center stair is missing hose valves. Is that a stairwell on the end?

10/17/2022 08:45:22 am

Good questions - just updated the sketch with labels and marked "Stair 1" so it shows more clearly. Yes, there are three stairs. Thanks Jesse.

Tim

10/17/2022 08:23:35 am

Without looking at coverage from an operational firefighting point of view FHC should always be placed close as possible to stairs. The stairs are the entering or access point for firefighters and rescue personnel. On multi storey buildings you never enter fire floor without charged water line and your escape is always planed back to stair. By instinct and training firefighters will seek the FHC at stairs.

Tim

Alex

10/17/2022 08:58:38 am

Hi,

Within the question, you mention a 2-hour fire-resistance-rated wall. I don't believe this is shown on the drawing. Is this a horizontal separation? What is the purpose of the wall. If you have a horizontal exit, a hose valve is required (NFPA 14 7.3.2).

Thanks

Jessica

10/17/2022 01:25:38 pm

See Corey's comments. Section 3.2.5.10 (2) of the BC code. Hose connections are not required within a floor area. I have done residential buildings in BC recently and got push back from the client when we showed hose valves outside of the stairs.

SCHULMAN

10/18/2022 07:11:05 am

EVER TRIED TO CARRY MORE THAN 100' OF FIRE HOSE ?

James Art, Ca FPE

10/19/2022 11:18:34 am

Looks like that 3rd stair is missing a standpipe.
And some codes want a standpipe outlet near the Horizontal Separation.

Sure Glad that ugly BC code is NOT used here.
Omitting the Standpipe for buildings below 25 meters (about 82 feet) would mean fire fighters need to manually carry hose up the stairs, prop stair doors open, then charge the hoses, and eventually put water on the fire.
Anyone trying to exit from above a fire would need to pass an open fire door.

Normally buildings need standpipes when 4 stories or more.

Often firefighters tie in to the floor below, or at the intermediate landing,if the outlet is there. That way if when they open the door, they have some distance from the fire, and can control the valves more safely.

Read all about it:
Here's a link to a recent fire in Oakland, Ca where the standpipe failed, 401 Santa Clara, 10/17/22

https://mng-prod.auth0.com/login?state=hKFo2SBVcFFwa3VoMzFoRXZfNzA5VEtpRy03bjdZd0NfR3RlWKFupWxvZ2luo3RpZNkgcXRjUFhnb1FoSHNlTmVuaFpUa1ZKRUN1WEg4Sk9wVEqjY2lk2SBoN1Y0TWdkcldMYnAxbHkySXVvOTg3akNyczA1T0FmTQ&client=h7V4MgdrWLbp1ly2Iuo987jCrs05OAfM&protocol=oauth2&response_type=id_token%20token&response_mode=form_post&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Factivate.mercurynews.com%2Fgateway%2Fgeneric.aspx%3Fpbid%3D704bc66e-2c99-475b-83aa-c7f296287203&scope=openid%20profile%20email&nonce=032bd54e-f53c-493b-9953-beaad077a65a

The News reports problems,sometimes accurately,
, but rarely follow up with the WWW:
What Went Wrong?

Please post or let me know if anyone sees more about that fire!!
THANKS.
Jim
Former FPE for City of Oakland

Casey Milhorn

10/20/2022 06:53:35 pm

I'm not sure how this particular Canadian code works, but typically here in the states, IBC requires either no standpipes, Class I, or Class III standpipes, depending on the height of the building. From there NFPA 14 tells you that standpipes must be located in every required exit stairwell (not convenience or strictly ornamental stairwells). From what I understand, the travel distance in IBC matches hose lay now in most cases. Which typically means no need for additional hose stations or standpipes. Code typically tells you when something is required, standards tell you how to do it and where to place them.

Thomas Duross

10/25/2022 05:08:03 pm

I would think a third standpipe required in Stair 2. Depending on your building code in use, if the building is fully sprinklered the travel distance is extended from 100' to 200'.

Standpipe Required In-Between Far-Apart Stairs?

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