Resources for Calculating Grid System Manually?

8/17/2021

I've been looking for a manual way of calculating a gridded pipe system.

Grid systems used to be calculated by hand before software came about, but now, everyone I can find just says they're "too complicated" and to let the software do them. They require multiple iterations, but using Excel, those iterations can be done automatically.

Doe anyone have resources or a good reference to calculate a gridded systems manually? I'm thinking manuals or textbooks.

Thanks!

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40 Comments

Pete

8/17/2021 06:35:12 am

I think 13 directs manual calculation of grid systems (or automatic where you can't auto-peak with software) to be three separate calcs. Basically you need three to establish the "middle one" is the most remote area.

And that's pretty much it. Pick the set of heads you think will be your most demanding, calc them.

Move your calculation zone over along the grid, calc that area.

Move your calculation zone over along the grid the other way, calc that area. Make sure the middle one is the most demanding, or do more calcs until you have a middle one that is the most demanding.

References: NFPA 13 (2016): 23.4.4.5 and A.23.4.4.5. There are figures in the annex.

Mike

8/17/2021 08:09:52 am

DM me your email. I have the original Viking Hydraulics training manual. [email protected]. Just put GRID in the subject line.

Another resource would be the Handlbook of Industrial Loss Prevention by FM. Can find it on amazon. This book is priceless.

https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Industrial-Prevention-Factory-Mutual/dp/0070198888/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=handbook+of+industrial+loss+prevention&qid=1629205683&sr=8-3

Casey Milhorn

8/17/2021 08:33:34 am

Check out this link to Cecil Bilbo's course on grids and loops. He is definitely the go to if you want a class or resources on calculations. https://www.sprinkleracademy.com/courses/91

Alex

8/17/2021 10:27:42 am

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the book reference. Sure that will help out more than just gridded system calcs.

moises olmeda

9/13/2022 09:17:38 pm

would you please send me a copy.
Regards

Craig Leadbetter

11/17/2022 08:38:10 am

Any chance I can get a copy of the Viking Hydraulics training manual?

Josh

6/7/2023 08:51:32 am

Hey, do you happen to still have this?

Irving

11/21/2023 03:39:40 pm

GRID

Taylor Schumacher

8/17/2021 08:19:12 am

Without a doubt, the best book on calculations I've read is Sprinkler Hydraulics by Harold S. Wass, Jr. from 1983.

If you're a math nerd, there is enough formulas in there wet your appetite.

John Galante

8/17/2021 08:41:16 am

I have a grid system manual that goes back to 1970 to 1975 , that I helped a friend, Jack Crowley with. I performed the calls and gave him the data. I also tested the systems performance for accuracy. I did a lot of deluge systems— special hazards back then, about 95% of business.
He wrote the procedure, with tables and coefficients. It
Was the prelim for the program he wrote. It’s excellent. I would have to scan and send in 2 emails. I would share, just send me your emails. I am on vacay with family for another week.
I still love his calc program over hydracalc and much better than Sprink calc.

Pete

8/17/2021 09:50:18 am

[email protected]

I'm not the OP, but what you say sounds interesting and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter (or ask to see the prelim of this excellent program which sounds really cool), so I'm hoping I can get in on the CC line of that e-mail.

Josh Gilliam

8/17/2021 10:17:32 am

John, could I get a copy of that too? joshuadgilliam at gmail dot com

Kevin Marsh

8/17/2021 10:24:38 am

John,
I would like a copy also, please. [email protected]

Jonathan Griffin

8/17/2021 11:08:08 am

John, I would also be interested in the calc program and manual!

[email protected]

Thanks!

David Flavin

8/17/2021 11:38:14 am

John,
If I could obtain a copy also that would be greatA

Frank

8/17/2021 11:44:39 am

John, please send me a copy of the program please.

[email protected]

Thanks!!

Dan Wilder

8/17/2021 02:24:40 pm

[email protected]

Much appreciated

Karen Papsin

8/18/2021 05:17:47 pm

John,
Please include me on the email list. [email protected].
Thanks.

Peter Glodic

8/18/2021 05:42:53 pm

John - may I please be provided a copy of the calc program and the manual: [email protected]

Adam

8/19/2021 02:21:07 pm

Hi John,

I would appreciate a copy of this.

[email protected]

Thanks!

Adam

Tanika Paxton

8/21/2021 06:22:02 am

John,
Can you send me a copy of the calc program also please?

Alberto

8/23/2021 09:13:46 am

John,
Can you send me a copy of the calc program also please?

[email protected]

Thanks

Chuck Dendy

9/7/2022 03:45:16 pm

Hi John I have a grid calc. What are the distance between 3 calcs
sre used . to the left to the right , top and bottom?

Bilal Arshad

9/13/2022 06:10:13 am

I would like a copy also.
[email protected]

moises olmeda

9/13/2022 09:16:45 pm

Please send me a copy to
[email protected]

Jhun Bertiz

11/20/2022 03:56:45 pm

Please send me a copy, I am interested.

Bilal

11/20/2022 10:54:02 pm

John, could I get a copy of that too?

Emmett Kelly

12/27/2022 08:54:35 am

Hi John, If you still can, please send me a copy of that to [email protected]

Thanks so much!

JUNG

4/19/2024 03:18:44 am

john, can I please get a copy ?

[email protected]

Andrew

6/7/2024 01:54:21 am

Hi John,

This reply is very late, but would it be possible to send it along?

[email protected]

Thanks!

Michael Paul de Gabriele

2/1/2025 10:18:56 pm

Hi John
My name is Michael Paul de Gabriele. I am a fire protections engineer working out in Australia.
I was wondering whether I can also get a copy of the grid system manual published by Jack Crawley as well as a copy of the hydraulic calculation program when you have a moment

my email is [email protected]

Appreciate your time and look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience

Kind Regards
Michael

Josh Gilliam

8/17/2021 10:25:22 am

This is a fantastic question at a great time. I'm working on a massive complex that will be gridded.

I would love to find out all the resources you guys have.

Peter Glodic

8/18/2021 05:47:15 pm

Josh - per other posts, I suspect its far quicker, easy and less prone to errors to use software for this task. There are a couple available. Look at Hyena+ by ACADS-BSG

Alex

8/17/2021 10:30:42 am

Hi Anonymous,

Is this for school or professional design? Back in school (I attended WPI), I had to perform a hand calc as well. After backchecking my math with software, you will find there are a lot of rooms for error. I would try to find someone to double check your math using any basic software (HASS, HydraCALC, etc) if it is for professional use.

Best of luck!
Alex

Michael Fertal

8/17/2021 12:29:34 pm

John,

I would also like to have the information, if you would be interested in sharing.

[email protected]

Brian Gerdwagen FPE

8/17/2021 02:54:09 pm

The problem with calculating grids by hand is iteration. It takes many balancing iterations to make 1 loop correct. You now have to do that for each gridded branch line. Your loops are n-1 with n being the number of branch lines in the grid.

Every time you make one loop work, you need to make the next one work. Then go back and fix the prior one. You will pay for calculation software with the labor savings from the first complete calculation.

Knowing how to calculate by hand is invaluable. But if you know how to calculate a loop by hand, you will know why this is such a daunting task.

Jay Richardson

8/18/2021 08:37:15 am

Fire Protection Hydraulics and Water Supply Analysis by Fire Protection Publications OSU has a section with example problem using the 10 step Hardy Cross method for calculating gridded systems

Tanika Paxton

8/21/2021 06:23:17 am

Thanks for this info

moises olmeda

8/22/2021 01:14:03 am

John,
would you please send me a copy of the manual and calc program.
Regards.
Moises

Ian

11/21/2023 08:37:24 pm

Please send me a copy, thank you so much
[email protected]

Resources for Calculating Grid System Manually?

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