MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Suppression Alternatives for Lithium Fire Hazard?

8/23/2021

9 Comments

 
I am working on a project that is manufacturing lithium-metal batteries (not lithium-ion). There are multiple areas throughout the manufacturing process where there is a risk of exposed lithium metal.

With lithium being water reactive, any water based system is not an option.

Are there any known alternative fire suppression systems listed and approved for use on a lithium fire?

I know that per a couple of different NFPA codes that clean agent and dry-chemical systems are not recommended for use on lithium fires. From what I can find there are just manual fire extinguishers (such and ANSUL's lith-x) for use on lithium fires.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
9 Comments
Pete
8/23/2021 06:43:51 am

Not 100% sure, but I think a clean agent system (NFPA 2001) is designed specifically for reactive metals such as lithium, sodium, potassium, magnesium, titanium, zirconium, uranium, and plutonium.

Reply
Alex
8/23/2021 07:11:05 am

Hi Anonymous,

I will start by saying that I am personally not aware of any listed fire suppression systems for lithium metal. But I did use your question to learn more about suppression alternatives for lithium fire and wanted to share my findings.

First, I went into NFPA 484, Standards for Combustible Metals. Table A.8.3.3 lists extinguishing agents per metals. For Lithium we have the following: carbon microspheriods, Lith-X, copper powder, a few dry chemicals, and argon. Annex H discusses “extinguishing agents that should not be used on lithium fire”. This includes water, AFFF, Halon, and CO2.

If you move forward with argon, you will be sent over to NFPA 2001, Standard on Clean Agent Fire Extinguishing Systems”. The standard walks you through the calculation and design process of argon (IG-01).

Like you mentioned, I can only find manual fire extinguishes for Lith-x.

Sorry I can’t provide much more on this topic. I hoping to learn more from everyone’s comments today. Best of luck with you design!

Thanks,
Alex

Reply
Greg
8/23/2021 08:37:01 am

To arrive at a comprehensive solution, can you break up the problem a bit more to attack the hazard? Think of local application and also in room application. Internal fire barriers, or external barriers, and separation... Ultimately, can you suppress and control the fire, or will you need to separate using passive barriers to achieve loss control.

On the suppression side (local application); the agents available in extinguishers (such as LithEx) can be loaded into pre-engineered systems for localized applications. I recommend reviewing major suppliers and contacting a technical engineering rep within the company to help find the best product. Not totally uncommon to do for metal fire applications. Review visibility hazards created by local application with Life Safety / Architect when applying in an occupied area. Consider delayed egress, etc.

On the suppression side (room application); this should be strongly considered, in addition to a localized applications. For this I would suggest you review the benefits of an Aerosol suppressant (eg. StatX). As above, consider life safety for discharges.

The basics of passive fire protection may play well in this space. Consult your architect / engineering team if there is a need to provide loss control through passive means such as; fire walls (eg. gypsum 2 hours) , fire barriers (eg. block wall 4 hours), or distance by separation (use FM Data sheets).

And if none of that will work, is there some possibility for dry sand to be pushed into the space, if it were semi-outdoors, in an open pit, etc. Way outside of code conforming but sand works if you have enough

Reply
John Callahan
8/23/2021 08:43:57 am

See NFPA 855, Section 4.11 for acceptable fire suppression requirements.

Reply
Franck
8/23/2021 09:08:26 am

NFPA 855 is not the correct standard in your case.
NFPA 855 is for lithium ion batteries. Nothing comparable to pyrophoric metal fire.
NFPA 484, as mentioned by Alex is the one you should use.
Unfortunately, as already mentioned, NFPA 484 mostly lists extinguishing agents for portable fire extinguishers (Lith-X, Copper powder...).
Argon is a possible gas protection agent for a closed room/equipment or for local application system on a machine...
This is the only inert gas you can use effectively on this kind of metal (lithium).
Do not use water (will decompose into oxygen - to fuel the fire - and hydrogen - to make an explosion). Do not use foams (because of water content). Do not use CO2 (will decompose into O2), or any othet inert gas (not effective with lithium metal fires).
Best practices rely on housekeeping (no dust, no fines), strong human procedures (static electricity, hot works...) and appropriate training for operators with appropriate fire extinguishers (no ABC powder: not efficient and the delivery system will create an explosive metal dust when applying).
For closed compartment machines, you can use argon.

Maybe you can check for helium (not mentioned by NFPA, but which can be used for Zirconium/hafnium, which normally have the same extinguishing requirements as Lithium metal).

Reply
Jon Sullivan
8/23/2021 01:02:15 pm

Another detailed and educational response. Thank you Franck

Reply
Franck
8/23/2021 02:38:10 pm

I had to ask myself the same questions a few years ago as we insure facilities processing zirconium and hafnium, both pyrophoric metals,
And sometimes, it happens that these plants do wrong choices, in particular by using ABC powder fire extinguishers, that are absolutely not suitable. Just because “they are more practical to use” than the metal fire extinguishers (most of them contains mostly salt : sodium chloride). A box filled with sand or salt is better than ABC powder extinguishers.
They normally know the potential of dramatic fire/explosions, but have no idea on the right way to avoid it or get protected from it.
And sometimes they receive wrong advices. I have seen areas protected by nitrogen (not efficient), by foam (problematic)… which is fine, as long as nothing happens.

Franck
8/23/2021 02:49:03 pm

Note that 2 area of concern are:
Beams and building structural elements (where metal dust can accumulate without being noticed… vibrations can create an explosive cloud)
Exhaust ducts provided on some machine shops where oily deposits and metal dust can accumulate.

Good housekeeping program for the first one
Fire dampers and gas protection (argon) for the second one.

Reply
Phil
9/12/2021 03:13:31 pm

May years ago I designed a fixed dry powder system using the Ansul system / equipment (comprising a powder storage tank, open nozzles and N2 gas cylinders used to deliver the powder). This thread got me looking into the current Ansul products and they do appear to have a powder product called LITH-X which appears to be for use on lithium fires. I'm not too sure if its suitable for use in a fixed system or just portable extinguishers but you might get some joy speaking to Ansul directly.

Sorry this may be a bit late for you.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​April 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 30B
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    UPC
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is a NICET Recognized Training Provider and International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT