MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

How to Access Smoke Detector in Elevator Shaft?

3/1/2023

5 Comments

 
How would you typically access a smoke detector at the top of an elevator shaft to change a battery or test it?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
5 Comments
chad
3/1/2023 08:05:51 am

The fact that you are asking about a battery concerns me, as there would never be a battery in a smoke in an elevator shaft.

All US states regulate elevators strictly. Although I cannot state its universal, I would say that most would require an elevator mechanic to operate the car to allow a tech access. They have a way of bringing the car down so you can get on top of the car and ride it up. This would be for existing installs...

There are new requirements for remote testing and access for new ones. I do not have access to that info from where I am.

Reply
Glenn Berger
3/1/2023 08:28:27 am

As Chad said, battery operated smoke detectors should not be used in this application.

Need to check the local requirements for detection at the top of the elevator shaft. If the shaft is vented to the exterior, the environmental conditions that can be experienced inside the shaft may be outside of the operating parameters of a smoke detector.

Also as Chad mentioned, a qualified elevator inspector/maintainer can "allow riding the top of the cab" to inspect the top of the cab and devices inside the shaft.

Reply
Todd E Wyatt
3/1/2023 09:52:23 am

SUMMARY
NFPA 72 (2019) A.21.3.7 references (3) proposed methods for providing access to a smoke detector in a hoistway :

(1) Access hatch door,
(2) Provide sampling-type detector,
(3) Heat detectors with connection points located outside the hoistway

The “Enhanced Content” per NFPA 72 21.1 states the following “Historically, fire alarm service personnel needed to ride the elevator or lean into the open door of the hoistway to perform routine inspection, testing, and maintenance tasks. This new requirement for access from outside the elevator hoistway improves the safety of these inspection, testing, and maintenance tasks.”

EXPLANATION
The scoping Code (2021 IBC) determines IF the hoistway requires an automatic smoke detection system (ASDS) as part of the Fire Alarm and Detection System (FADS).

FADS are required per “907.2 Where required - new buildings and structures” based on the building’s Occupancy Classifications(s) (OC) ... Group A, Group B, Group E, Group F, Group H, Group I, Group M, Group R-1, Group R-2, and Group S.

Smoke Alarms (per 907.2.11) are required in Group R-1, R-2, R-3, R-4, and I-1 as well as specific areas in all OCs (e.g. near cooking appliances), and in other specialized building types (e.g. Special Amusement Buildings, High-Rise Buildings, Atriums ...).

Since your question does not include a description of the building, we shall assume that the smoke detector in the elevator hoistway is required by 2021 IBC.

The scoping Code (2021 IBC) references the applicable standard(s) and/or listing. “UL 268” is the listing for smoke detectors. “NFPA 72 National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code” (2019) is the applicable standard for FADS per 2021 IBC.

2019 NFPA 72 includes (17) references of “hoistway” ... mostly related to “Chapter 21 Emergency Control Function Interfaces.”

“ASME A17.1/CSA B44, Safety Code for Elevators and Escalators” includes references to “smoke detectors” but does not include methods for providing access to a smoke detector in a hoistway.

REFERENCES
NFPA 72 National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code (2019)
Chapter 21 Emergency Control Function Interfaces
21.1* Application.
The provisions of Chapter 21 shall cover the minimum requirements and methods for emergency control function interfaces to fire alarm systems and emergency communications systems in accordance with this chapter.

A.21.3.7
Since it is permitted by ASME A17.1/CSA B44, Safety Code for Elevators and Escalators, to have access for fire alarm initiating devices installed inside elevator hoistways, the following are examples for proposed methods for providing such access (other methods could be acceptable if approved by the authority having jurisdiction):
(1) Provide an access hatch door and associated protective guard for a spot type fire detector, where the fire detector is installed within the protective guard.
(2) Provide an air sampling-type detector as specified in 17.7.3.6 installed outside the hoistway with its sampling tube installed to sample the air within the hoistway.
(3) If heat detection is required, linear heat detectors with connection points located outside the hoistway or spot type heat detectors installed in accordance with A.21.3.7(1) are acceptable.

ENHANCED CONTENT
Historically, fire alarm service personnel needed to ride the elevator or lean into the open door of the hoistway to perform routine inspection, testing, and maintenance tasks. This new requirement for access from outside the elevator hoistway improves the safety of these inspection, testing, and maintenance tasks.

21.3.8*
When sprinklers are required in elevator hoistways by other codes and standards, fire alarm initiating devices shall be installed to initiate Elevator Phase I Emergency Recall Operation in accordance with ASME A17.1/CSA B44, Safety Code for Elevators and Escalators, and the following shall apply:
(1) Where sprinklers are located at the top of the hoistway, the fire detection device(s) shall be located at the top of the hoistway.
(2) Where sprinklers are located at the bottom of the hoistway (the pit), fire detection device(s) shall be installed in the pit in accordance with Chapter 17.
(3) Outputs from the fire alarm system to the elevator system shall comply with 21.3.14.
(4) The fire alarm initiating device(s) shall be installed in accordance with Chapter 17.

Subsection 21.3.8(2) addresses the location of fire alarm initiating devices when sprinklers are installed in the elevator pit. The need to have sprinklers installed in the elevator hoistway, including the elevator pit, is established by the requirements in 9.3.6 of NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems.

Reply
Shane
3/1/2023 09:53:42 am

Perhaps he/she is referring to something like a swift wireless detector?

I have typically seen a fire rated access panel at the top of the shaft with a screen to protect the detector(s) from debris.

I agree with Glenn. Check local requirements, the detector(s) may not be required.

Reply
Koray Uluc link
3/3/2023 03:44:51 am

There is a simple and functional solution for this; drill a hole on top of the elevator shaft, make a fire rated hatch for this hole and place your detector on the hatch at elevator shaft side.
Whenever you need to test it open hatch and test it.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​Feb 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 30B
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is an International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ABOUT
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT