Where to Find Talent: I Need Your Help!

8/24/2022

I hate surveys. Hate 'em.

Somewhere about 3 years ago it seemed every corporation attended the same weekend seminar and decided that they would hound you for a quick 25-minutes survey after any interaction.

Like - any - interaction.

My wife had a short phone call with the nurse line for the pediatrician and she received three emails, a text link and a voicemail to complete a survey about it. Crazy land!

Today - this survey - is not about the LLC; it's a quick study to get information that you all have been asking for.

First, the whole reason I first created meyerfire.com was to find unique ways to contribute to the industry. I love the fire protection industry. I really do.

I enjoy the people, I enjoy the attitude, I enjoy advocating for fire protection as the underdog trade.

If you've read some of these posts for awhile, I hope you've gathered that. This site is truly nothing more than my best attempt to serve you with helpful things that allow you to do great work in the world. At the end of the day, or at the end of our career, ultimately, saving lives is what we're all hoping to achieve. If you haven't read about what we're all about, I gush about it in more detail here. Worth poking around there if you haven't already.

So what does that have to do with today's post?

I get asked all the time - "how do I find talented people?"

"I need a sprinkler designer."
"I need an estimator."
"I need experienced help."
"I need more new hires."
"The kids out of school these days!"

On, and on.

I’ve had some great conversations on this and ideas to share.

But perhaps the most important piece is getting the data in the first place.

Where does talent actually come from?

That’s this week.

While I'm the one collecting the inputs - the results are going to have some key indicators for you. This is not a salary survey. This is not a "where is everyone" survey. This is a look at where we come from, and how we got started.

The survey is short, simple, and I'll share the results with you within 3 weeks from today.

Please, please, please, take this 2-minute, 6-question survey:

* Indicates required field

(1) How did you FIRST hear about fire protection as a field? *

(2) Why did you go into the fire protection field? *

(3) Was your first "real job" specifically in fire protection? *

Yes, I went straight into the fire protection field No, I started in another field

If "No", what was the field your first "real job" was in? *

(4) What type of organization was your first "real job"? *

If "Other", what type of organization? *

(5) When you FIRST started in fire protection, what was your highest degree AT THAT TIME? (This is NOT what you currently hold) *

If "Other", what degree type did you have? *

(6) What is your role/title now? *

(7) What type of organization do you work for now? *

If "Other", what type of organization? *

Submit

Thank you so much! I very much look forward to sharing some ideas and insights that we can gather from the data.

- Joe

Stan Burrell link

8/24/2022 11:11:14 am

Thanks for all you share !

David F Kelly link

8/24/2022 11:18:30 am

Enjoy and learn from reading your weekly updates.

Chris Postma

8/24/2022 11:19:44 am

Interested to know what you find!

Ralph Giro

8/24/2022 11:23:59 am

I am a MEPF P.E. Your site really helps me try to keep up and learn. Thanks so much.

Arthur J Tiroly

8/24/2022 11:27:21 am

My insurance training helps me determine the correct occupancy for the appropriate sprinkler density design requirements. Manual hydraulic calculations help me analyze and correct machine hydraulics errors. Sizing fire pumps and water supply analysis is a critical requirement. I used to do water flow tests and fire pump tests and would find deficiencies.

Kevin Gunn

8/24/2022 11:27:49 am

I'm in the industry because someone took the time to invest in my training. We need to stop looking for talent and instead start developing talent.

Kelly

8/26/2022 06:20:27 am

Agree completely. Hiring experienced folks is a crapshoot because there just aren't enough of us to go around to all the places we're needed. Best way to get talent is to develop it.

MARGARET ZABEL

8/29/2022 01:05:09 pm

This is how I actually became a sprinkler designer, too. I stumbled into a situation where a small company was offering all the people they could find who had an interest (6) an unprecedented opportunity to sit in a room (paid $6/hr in 1981) for six weeks learning basics. Three of us "graduated".

Louie Lincoln link

8/29/2022 02:49:13 pm

That has always been my philosophy.

Marc Bielicki

9/1/2022 07:21:00 pm

100%!! It just takes a shot and someone backing them up to make it in this industry, that I truly love and get so upset it has such a bad rep in construction in areas. Hire based on guy feelings, not a resume!

joe Stubblefield

8/24/2022 11:43:51 am

i had never heard about fire protection when I started!

Everyday I learn something new and relavant from Meyerfire!

Blaine Parkerson

8/24/2022 11:50:37 am

I’m continually amazed at this discipline and how it is so much broader than just sprinkler systems and also how much art there is that goes with the science. I think that fact can make it somewhat daunting as the rules and methods can seem very arbitrary at times which can make it hard to explain things other than “just because the code says” or by invoking the opposite third order differential equations and solving using regression analysis.

DAVID FARRELL

8/25/2022 05:04:03 am

Don't you just love it when people say they are "experts" in fire safety knowing just how broad the subject is, I get that you can be an expert in one or two of the core subjects and have a reasonably wide understanding of the rest and how they integrate, with 38 years of experience I dont think I am any closer to being an expert than what I was when I started, I just have a ton of knowledge and some experience to know that if it looks wrong it probably is wrong.

cheers
David

Jerry Binkley

8/25/2022 02:29:43 pm

Same here David, after 55 years i still find myself dumb as a rock..............

Corey Clark

8/24/2022 12:09:12 pm

Your site is very helpful and is a valuable resource. Thank you for all you do for the fire protection industry Joe!

Alex Riley

8/24/2022 12:20:22 pm

Continuing to learn and grow from MeyerFire daily!

Stephen Munyaka

8/24/2022 12:29:50 pm

I am interested to learn more as I train.

Dave deBoer

8/24/2022 01:11:50 pm

Thank you for all that you do to further our profession. Great forum to share ideas and get different perspectives.

Craig Montoya

8/24/2022 01:31:33 pm

Mr. Meyer,

I think the Fire Protection Community is small because we are not understood. We are proactive thinkers and safety experts but we are thought of as the "folks that make me take my decorations off of my classroom wall." Some in the fire industry see us as the "folks that are trying to take their job from them." The truth is that we, as an industry, need to take every opportunity we get to educate others about our profession and how we impact the world. We are a small special group that is mainly thought of after a devastating fire and everyone asks what the last fire inspection record says. We are the silent heroes of the world. I think only those in the industry really understand what it is that we do and why we do it.

To find talent; we need to welcome, educate, and accept new faces in our community. I first started in the industry as an AHJ at 29 years old. I went to a conference and I knew no one outside of my organization. I was surprised to see the age of all the attendees were nowhere near my age. During one class, the instructor made it a point to make fun of the "young inspectors" and I was probably the only one under 45 years old in the class and I quickly became the butt of the jokes. Some were harmless and fun but some were nasty and ugly. To this day on construction sites the contractors initially think I know nothing since they have been in the industry longer than I have been alive. It is because of this that I have worked harder than anyone I know to educate myself so I do know what I am talking about and can answer most questions with an educated answer. After that conference I have changed my personal perspective to seek those that look new to the industry and welcome them.

We need to show that there is a road map to a great career from the blue-collar or construction industry. As with anything, if you are committed to learning more and working harder than anyone else around you, good things will come. In this industry, you need to know your stuff and have thick skin to succeed, but stay with it and it will all work out.

anonymoose

8/24/2022 03:31:27 pm

When I started a handful of years ago, I was one of about 6-7 sprinkler design trainees in a design group of about 40-60 designers - within a couple years all of us had moved on, though most of them to a different industry. I've since passed that NICET III WBSL and decided I'm stuck for now, but I feel like the exception to have made it this far. I think most of my continued perseverance has to do with getting along well with some of my much older designer coworkers and managers.

Fire protection, especially at the much less glamorous sprinkler/alarm designer level, needs people with talents and abilities that I suspect make them a good fit for other more lucrative careers. While it's provided for my family and I'm thankful for the opportunity it has given me - in today's social-media connected world it's easy to see the young professionals in other tech fields being paid significantly more for seemingly less stressful work and wonder if I shouldn't have followed a different path.

I'm not sure what this all means, but now that I'm at the point where I've been involved in conversations about trying to find a designer trainee. I truly don't know where to look except some of our tech-savy field personnel, which the field team is just as reluctant to give up as they similarly see their potential.

I'm interested to see the survey results, thank you Joe for putting this out!

dave n mather

8/29/2022 06:07:06 am

interesting to see some of the results

Martin M.

8/29/2022 08:58:01 am

I have a BSME degree with a NY state Code Enforcement certification. Really started looking at this field through that training I love the blog and have learned so much from it ,a must read every day!
I am currently working for the National Park Service in facilities.
Thank you to Meyers and all the great input from many knowledgeable professionals
be well
Martin M

Bob Dahlmann

8/29/2022 09:44:38 am

My first boss gave me a plumbing code for Iowa and NFPA 13 and said study these at home. Then he gave me hundreds of paper (1971) prints of plumbing and FP bid documents for a food processing plant and I reviewed them for weeks. Learned a lot and I am still learning.

Toby Cole

8/29/2022 02:25:32 pm

AB link

8/31/2022 10:37:59 am

I am deeply passionate about what we do. After discharge from the US Army, I worked as a receptionist for a privately owned FP Contractor. Immediately there was a familial connection with peers I hadn't had before. During my walkthrough, I was in awe as we passed through the Design Department and knew I wanted to land there within the next few years. A few individuals took me under their wing and taught me AutoCAD, HydraCAD, Layout, and Design. I was in graduate school working towards an MS in Mechanical Engineering. Once I graduated, I moved into the Design Department and was eager to dive in with a thirst for learning about anything and everything.

Lifetime Designer!

I enjoy the challenge, the change, the darkness of my office, and the high-paced, stressful, life-encompassing industry. My teammates are family. My career is my hobby.

It is challenging to find individuals with NICET Level III qualifications. Nearly impossible lately. I've succumbed to the idea that if you want good designers, great designers... you must plant the seed, water it, tend to its growth, engage with it, nurture it and reap the beauty and benefits of mutual development and growth.

When COVID, widespread fear and contagion shut down the world, our company imposed travel restrictions that impeded attending remote training opportunities. I hired two field installers with a desire to move into design; I prepared training and coaching and took on teaching them AutoCAD, AutoSPRINK, Head Spacing, Design, Layout, and Hand Hyd/Seismic Calculations.

They are both still here, both engaged, both passionate, and I have enjoyed watching them evolve, watching the lightbulb appear when something clicks.

Want good people? Grow them, coach them, ask for their opinion, meet with them one-on-one, engage them, value them and show them with words and actions that you appreciate their mostly thankless contribution to the team, the department, the company, and the industry...

JAMES ART, FPE

8/31/2022 11:57:04 am

We need to recruit and encourage more people to join the industry, esp. to become FPE's. Many have never heard of Fire Protection Engineering, and there are now only a few colleges that offer it at the undergraduate level.

There is more and more need and more important recognition of the need for these Engineers, and a real supply problem.

Society has realized that fire protection and fire prevention makes sense, just look at the "new" codes requiring sprinklers in more and more occupancies, including all residential (Except in states like Texas that take the code reductions for sprinklers, but omit the sprinklers!)
How can we work to increase the awareness of our industries, and get more young people to join?

Marc F Lenaerts

9/1/2022 04:45:02 am

Great initiative, also useful on the other side of the Atlantic.

Joe Meyer

9/2/2022 10:18:18 am

We like y'all too Marc! I think recognition of the industry isn't just a US problem; it's worldwide.

I think the "tips" we can learn from the data here are going to be very interesting. Hopefully it'll give ideas on finding and encouraging new talent to the industry.

Dinesh kumar D

9/1/2022 08:27:07 am

As NFPA states , it's a big world, let's protect it together. I am happy to be a part of this field. I started my career as draftsman, then detailed design engineer, EPC engineer and now as Risk engineer. Standard interpretation was quite difficult during starting stage, reading blogs gives a clear vision. Really appreciate your effort for maintaining this blog.
I wish many young people to be informed about this field at early stage to build our circle strong..

Pranay Kapoor

9/1/2022 09:16:23 am

Dear Dineshji, let's not fool ourselves here. We all know how low the salary compensation is for fire protection engineers (including loss prevention consultants) especially in the middle east, south Asia region. (Also how much ever people in the blog are needing FPEs, they don't give much preference to us immigrants in the US - that is a fact)

Why would anyone want to enter a career which still has ages old technology and not enough remuneration. It's a noble job. Unfortunately I'm in it too. But I'd rather want my kids to be in the tech., medicine or the finance industry.

9/2/2022 10:20:54 am

To each his own, Pranay. I'd be thrilled if any of my kids wanted to be in fire protection engineering. It's been an outstanding career so far for myself and many people I've known. Definitely have a long way to go for recognition worldwide and making it a better environment for everyone.

Colin Triming

9/1/2022 10:28:28 am

I have been in the fire service for 38 years, 24 of them as a fire inspector. I love coming in the Meyer fire forum because I still want to (and do) learn something every day.

Nairn G. Robertson

9/1/2022 06:15:26 pm

Thank you for providing this platform for knowledge sharing with like minded individuals.
It is a wonderful support resource, keep up the great work!!

Ray Hardy link

9/7/2022 10:39:14 am

Brilliant site. I'm viewing it from London and look forward to the daily messages. I hear lots of references to degrees etc. I'm an older engineers and I learnt the hard way at night school and in the field. I learnt more in the field than at night school. People should remember this - We prepare drawings for installers to fit, sometimes under difficult circumstances. My biggest learning curve was "helping" to install a job I'd designed - I learnt more in 6 months than in 5 years at college. The fitters were not complementary, but I didn't expect them to be. They told me in no uncertain terms where I had gone wrong. Part of the learning curve was winning them over in the end. I find it hard these days to convince young engineers to go to site - but that's where your job is at. As a result I look for attitude as well as academic ability. I look for people who don't mind being hands on. My favourite part of the job is commissioning because you are problem solving. Get people into this game by stressing how varied and interesting the challenges are. Keep up the good work!

Aviv

9/7/2022 11:11:21 am

Used this website both during school (B.S. in FPE @UMD) and now at my first professional position as a code consultant (in CA). reading the updates is really nice and useful. I'm taking your course (+ Roadmap) as a way to study for the PE, and it's been a tremendous help. Thanks for running this awesome resource!

Dennis R.

9/7/2022 11:54:15 am

Thank you for all you do! Always learn a little something new from your blog & forum!

Comments are closed.

Where to Find Talent: I Need Your Help!

ALL-ACCESS

SUBSCRIBE

AUTHOR

FILTERS

ARCHIVES