Who Provides Two-Way Communication Systems?

10/6/2020

Have a four-story project that is under 2015 IBC and NFPA 101. NFPA 101, for fully-sprinklered buildings with accessible floor levels (floors 2-4 included) - designates the entire floor level as accessible and an area of refuge. Reference NFPA 101 7.2.12 and NFPA 72 24.10.

Along with that designation includes a requirement for a two-way communication system generally next to the elevator bank for the building. There's not much detail out of NFPA 101, and I'm finding very few people are familiar with these systems.

Who typically specifies and provides details/locations on these systems?

It is not tied into the fire alarm system - yet is related to life safety - so we're getting some feedback that these systems should be shown on fire alarm plans. However, the fire alarm subcontractors have nothing to do with these systems. Low voltage / specialty consultants are stating that the systems are code mandated and aren't looking to coordinate these locations with fire marshals and plan review.

It's not a cost item and no one is pointing fingers - but I am trying to understand going forward where these systems are typically shown on plans and who should be specifying them?

Thanks in advance.

Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

9 Comments

Free Signup

Subscribe and learn something new each day:

Exam Prep

2020 PE Prep Series
Current Leaderboard
(Click to enlarge)

PE Problems

Visit July-October for daily Fire Protection PE Exam sample questions.

Solutions are posted the day after posting.

Comment with your solutions, questions or clarifications.

Please note that questions posted are unofficial and in accordance with NCEES rules are intended to be similar to actual exam questions, not actual exam questions themselves.

Jeanne Tebera

10/6/2020 10:10:28 am

The area of rescue (or refuge) two-way communications system is typically specified in Division 28 (not 27) by the electrical engineer or the fire protection engineer. The best place to show the system is on the fire alarm plans. The two-way communications system must be monitored by the fire alarm system, so these monitoring points should be indicated as supervisory signals on the fire alarm matrix.

Will

10/6/2020 12:49:45 pm

Jeanne,

Where is the requirement to monitor this system by fire alarm?

Rusty Scott

10/6/2020 10:22:46 am

This has been a hot topic for our firm as well. Since it is mentioned in NFPA 72 to provide emergency communication systems, our AHJs are now requiring them to be shown on our engineered FA drawings for permit yet we have to provide pricing notes stating that if two-way comm. type systems are not in FA contractor scope please notify G.C. & architect and indicate in pricing package that this is not included. That way the flag is waved that it needs to be priced and sent to the appropriate contractor for bid. It's unclear to use if low voltage/specialty type contractors know to look on fire alarm for these systems. In our region, FA contractors don't touch these systems yet in other parts of the country we've worked in they do.

We have an internal firm debate on who should show these types of system between our telecom drawings or fire alarm. Right now we agree it should be on telecom yet AHJs require them to be on the engineered FA drawings and will not let us reference telecom drawings since telecom aren't being submitted to the AHJs.

(Also believe you are supposed to monitor the power supplies of the emergency comm. systems.)

Our telecom group explains it in a pretty simple way, that it's basically a dedicated P.A/paging system that can go both ways with some added safety features and survivability requirements.

To add to your question, if the main control panel is located in the fire command center, is it fire alarms responsibility?

10/6/2020 11:07:38 am

NFPA 72 cannot require the installation of any system. It is only a standard for installation, testing, and maintenance. I would visit this with your AHJ.

10/8/2020 10:53:24 am

@DS - Correct poor terminology on my part, the IBC requires it and it's installation standards are in NFPA 72 which is why our AHJs requires it to be shown on our FA drawings.

Marc Vieno

10/6/2020 10:40:22 am

I know that the City of Portland requires location callouts on the life safety floor plans, and typically it's checked that it is mentioned in the code summary as well. After that we (I was a Commercial Plans Examiner there) just assumed that the next place we'd see it is during inspections.

As a building and fire code consultant, I recommend the life safety sheets as a minimum - typically the permit set is also the bid set so it's fine to leave the system design up to the bidder.

Sean Kyer

10/6/2020 12:32:52 pm

In Colorado it is the fire alarm contractor that typically provides the systems. In Denver it is required for a fire alarm contractor to do so. But, I know of a company that only installs two way systems and I they are telecommunication contractors. As with anything it seems that if you are qualified that is all that matters. Check with Rath Communications or Kings III. They may know of a contractor in your area. As for plans, my company will often submit a separate set of engineered plans just for this special system.

Felipe Pedraza

10/6/2020 12:38:13 pm

DS, you are correct, NFPA 72 does not require the 2 way communication but it does talks on how and what equipment to use for the installation. This is found in section 24.10 of NFPA 72.

NFPA 101 chp, 7 does talk about the requirements in providing an Area of Refuge and providing 2-way communication for Life Safety reasons. Also, IBC 2015 and 2018 section 1009.6.5 makes the requirements of 2-Way Communication in the Area of Refuge. IBC 2015 and 2018 section 403.5 also mention Stairway communication System. These requirement's were also found on the 2009 and 2012 IBC section 1007.6.3 and the Stair communication section 403.5.3.

The IBC also talks about Emergency Radio Coverage for first responders and it is found in section 915 of IBC 2012, 916 IBC 2015 and 918 of IBC 2018. All these section are only 1 sentence long, which refer you to the IFC chapter 5 section 510 the installation requirement.

These requirements area for areas of refuge in new construction, significant remodeling, or change of building use regardless if the building is sprinklered or not.

David Secoda

10/12/2020 02:50:47 pm

Hi All - In design, I've seen plans for two-way communication systems on fire alarm and on technology drawing sets.

During construction, it's usually the fire alarm subcontractor that provides the equipment and programming of the two-way comm system.

One factor contributing to the confusion is that the model code (IBC) does not reference NFPA 72 for the installation of two-way communication systems.

Designers, contractors and AHJs are left to interpret the meaning and intent of model code language that (paraphrasing) states "A two-way communication system shall be provided..." More precisely, the model code (IBC) should reference the installation standard, for example "A two-way communication system *installed in accordance with NFPA 72* shall be provided..."

A two-way communication system IS an emergency communication system (ECS) which installation is covered by NFPA 72. In my opinion, the two-way comm system should be supervised by the building fire alarm system.

The interface for supervision should be shown on the fire alarm drawings - similar to the points of supervision shown for emergency responder radio coverage systems (ERRCS).

Supervision should be provided for the two-way comm system power supply and possibly other points depending on the system manufacturer.

Who Provides Two-Way Communication Systems?

Leave a Reply.

Free Signup

Community

Your Post

The Toolkit

Filters

Archives

Exam Prep