Who is AHJ for Oil Storage at Terminal Facility?

11/4/2021

We have a project for an NFPA 11 foam system. The foam system is used to protect oil storage tanks at different terminal facilities.

Under Chapter 12 of NFPA 11 (2021 Edition), who is the party that inspects and signs off on these systems as the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction)?

Is it the local jurisdiction's fire marshal, the facility's insurance company, or the facility itself?

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10 Comments

Pete H

11/4/2021 06:51:21 am

Just going to hazard a guess to be taken with a grain of salt: it would vary from state to state. Has your state adopted NFPA 11? Has your local fire marshal adopted NFPA 11? If yes to both, then your local fire marshal would be the AHJ. If yes to the state but not to the locality, a state fire marshal would be the AHJ. If no to both but the system is a requirement from the insurance company, the insurance company is the AHJ. If it is for a federal facility, a federal AHJ might be involved.

Based on NFPA 11 (2016) Chapter 11 where the AHJ and the property owner are routinely separated when discussing testing, I would estimate the facility itself is specifically not the AHJ.

Anthony

11/4/2021 08:19:59 am

The AHJ is the person in charge of the people who show up to put the fire out.

They cannot write or change code that is set by state law ie building code. They are asked to consult on specific items of the code. Such as stand pipe hose locations.

The AHJ, usually a fire marshal, can delegate sign off and inspection to a specific civic organization like a building inspector Dept ECT.

The insurance company is never the AHJ they may ask for a higher degree of protection but cannot specify anything below building and fire code. The insurance company can always ask for copies of signed documents but that's between the owner and insurance company.

Alex

11/5/2021 07:11:14 am

Hi Anthony,

I agree, the AHJ is typically either the state or local fire marshal. Although, like Pete H mentioned above, there are times where the insurance company can be the AHJ as well.

For a project of this magnitude, I would say it would fall under the State.

Thanks,
Alex

Glenn Berger

11/4/2021 08:25:24 am

Dependent on the location and the user, it could be anybody that you list, and that I will add the Owner's Fire Protection Engineer or Safety Engineer.

Robert Kluck

11/4/2021 09:12:02 am

While the true Authority having Jurisdiction , in the legal sense, is the Local Authority signing off on the project permits, I think a case can be made that both (Town and Insurer) have authority, and facility. Think of it this way:

Finalize a design without the Town authority and you operate without a permit and the facility is fined and then you're fired.(PS: Also look at state and federal rules pertaining to the facility - there may be special federal standards that address your type of facility).

Finalize it without the Insurer's agreement and you're uninsured, have to get more expensive replacement insurance, and then be fired.

Finalize it without having checked and meeting the Corporate Standards and you're fired.

If you enjoy your work, figure out which of the three is the most stringent and then explain to the other two why you need to design to exceed THEIR requirements. That is usually an easier argument to win than the reverse.

David Williams, FPE link

11/4/2021 09:17:44 am

Having done FP design work at LNG, oil terminals, and oil pumping stations I note that interstate facilities are often under a State's Office of pipeline safety delegated from the Federal CFR regulations. The local fire departments have some say since they have to fight the fire.

Joshua Freedman

11/4/2021 11:34:10 am

As an insurance inspector, I have to say the AHJ can be multiple parties. I have been involved in several projects where there were multiple AHJs. The Fire Marshal will have to sign off on projects, but sometimes the City has looser requirements than everything considered under NFPA or FM and will make allowances, but if their insurance isn't satisfied with the plans, they may have to do additional things which they will be upset were not considered under the original project. I have been involved in projects where I have been ok with less than the City, and also, conversely, required more than the City was. Making changes during the planning phase is a lot more cost effective than starting the engineering and permitting process all over again. If I were you, I would submit plans to the Fire Marshall as well as their property, liability, and work comp coverages (hopefully all the same provider) to make sure everyone is ok with it and you can explain to your client how you are providing them high level service.

Douglas Krantz link

11/4/2021 11:52:33 am

In the NFPA 72 (for fire alarm systems – I assume that other code publications are similar), under the definitions in the front of the Code Book, the list basically that there is an AHJ. But when looking in the back of the same Code Book, in the Annex or Appendix, the NFPA goes into more detail about what the mean.

They list a whole bunch of people who are AHJs.

The fire marshal is one – the one most interested in protecting from fire

The representative of the insurance company is another one – after all, it’s the insurance company that pays when something doesn’t work

Even the owner is an AHJ – the owner owns it

All three of these have different levels of expertise, but all three of those have to agree before it’s approved for occupancy.

The writers of the code also say, in the NFPA 72 National Fire Alarm Code Handbook, available from the NFPA along side the Code Book, that if there’s a conflict between what the code says, and what an AHJ says, that the system must be installed according to the most stringent requirement.

A few of the AHJs may have official capacity, usually determined by the government, but all of them may have something to say about the installation.

Jesse

11/4/2021 04:19:59 pm

It could be an all-of-the-above thing. Not sure where this is, but in Texas we have overlapping AHJs in which there are municipalities and quasi-municipalities that are separate, yet equal political subdivisions. So we have many projects that have multi permits required.

You also need to consider the insurer. They are a contractual AHJ meaning that in execution of the policy, the insured has ceded some legal responsibility for loss control in return for the transference of risk. In nearly every case, the insurer uses the most recent edition of NFPA and occasionally has more stringent requirements for some things like forest products manufacturing and petrol-chemical.

So they may require a plan submittal as well.

Good luck

Mike

11/5/2021 06:07:18 pm

Depending on your jurisdiction, sometimes fire protection piping is considered Process Piping and only goes through the refiners engineers. But the same facility goes through another jurisdiction which requires City Fire Department Approval.

The standards are usually NFPA or customer's own specifications but have never been less than NFPA in terms of coverage and density. The only thing I have seen different is discharge duration.

Also seeing a lot of bladder change outs to get rid of PFOS. Those have been unpermitted without AHJ approval in most cases.

Who is AHJ for Oil Storage at Terminal Facility?

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