Warehouse with 1-1/2" Hose Valve on 1" drop?

2/4/2020

Have a project that is a large ESFR warehouse with many storage bays and many zoned systems. About every 150 to 200 feet is a 1-1/2 inch hose valve that is tied to the overhead system with 1-inch pipe drops.

What is the purpose for these? Where is the code basis?

We may be modifying some of these areas with new work and I want to be sure we're upkeeping code, but I'm not familiar with the purpose of these hose valves. Thanks in advance.

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

7 Comments

Wayne Ammons

2/4/2020 09:03:26 am

The code basis is from NFPA 13, Section 12.2 (2016 Edition)

12.2* Hose Connections.
12.2.1 Small hose connections [11⁄2 in. (38 mm)] shall be provided where required by the authority having jurisdiction in accordance with 8.17.5 for first-aid fire-fighting and overhaul operations.
12.2.2 Small hose connections shall not be required for the protection of Class I, II, III, and IV commodities stored 12 ft (3.7 m) or less in height.

Pipe sizing requirements for hose connections are found in section 8.17.5.1.4:

8.17.5.1.4* Hose connections used for fire purposes only shall be permitted to be connected to wet pipe sprinkler systems only, subject to the following restrictions:
(1) Hose connection’s supply pipes shall not be connected to any pipe smaller than 21⁄2 in. (65 mm) in diameter.
(2) The requirements of 8.17.5.1.4(1) shall not apply to hydraulically designed loops and grids, where the minimum size pipe between the hose connection’s supply pipe and the source shall be permitted to be 2 in. (50 mm).
(3) For piping serving a single hose connection, pipe shall be a minimum of 1 in. (25 mm) for horizontal runs up to 20 ft (6.1 m), a minimum of 11⁄4 in. (32 mm) for the entire run for runs between 20 ft and 80 ft (6.1 m and 24 m), and a minimum of 11⁄2 in. (40 mm) for the entire run for runs greater than 80 ft (24 m). For piping serving multiple hose connections, runs shall be a minimum of 11⁄2 in. (40 mm) throughout.
(4) Piping shall be at least 1 in. (25 mm) for vertical runs.
(5) Where the residual pressure at a 11⁄2 in. (40 mm) outlet on a hose connection exceeds 100 psi (7 bar), an approved pressure-regulating device shall be provided to limit the residual pressure at the outlet to 100 psi (7 bar).
(6) Where the static pressure at a 11⁄2 in. (40 mm) hose connection exceeds 175 psi (12 bar), an approved pressure regulating device shall be provided to limit static and residual pressures at the outlet to 100 psi (7 bar).

You should also be aware of the requirements from NFPA 1 (2015 Edition) for class I standpipe outlets for storage occupancies:

20.15.8.3 Fire Department Hose Connections.
20.15.8.3.1 When any portion of the high-piled combustible storage area is greater than 200 ft (61 m) from a fire department access door, Class I standpipe outlets connected to a system sized to deliver 250 gpm (946.4 L/min) at the most hydraulically remote outlet shall be provided in accordance with 20.15.8.3. 20.15.8.3.2 The outlet shall be permitted to be supplied from the sprinkler system and shall be hydraulically calculated.
20.15.8.3.3 Standpipe outlets shall be provided at each of the following locations:
(1) In each exit passageway at the entrance from the storage areas into the passageway
(2) At each intermediate landing between floor levels in every required exit stairway serving the storage area
(3) At exterior entrances into the storage

I have designed many speculative shell warehouses where class I hose connections were required due to the width of the building, but small hose connections were not required by the AHJ until a tenant leased the building (or portion of) and maintained areas intended for storage.

Wayne Ammons

2/4/2020 09:06:53 am

Here is a follow-up with the annex material from the sections referenced above:

A.12.2 Authorities having jurisdiction have varying requirements for plant first-aid and fire-fighting operations. Examples include no hose stations, hose stations with hose line and nozzles, and hose stations with no hose line or nozzles.

A.8.17.5.1.4 This standard covers 11⁄2 in. (38 mm) hose connections for use in storage occupancies and other locations where standpipe systems are not required. Where Class II standpipe systems are required, see the appropriate provisions of NFPA 14 with respect to hose stations and water supply for hose connections from sprinkler systems.

Jesse

2/4/2020 12:23:54 pm

As a 20+ year retired fire chief officer, now fire protection engineer - the code sections are right on the money.

Here's the backstory. Eons ago, OSHA and unions and others thought having hose stations in storage occupancies was ideal. Keep the fire in its incipient stage. So, after much lobbying and pressing, codes were adopted.

However, after several high profile warehouse employee fire deaths due to higher hazard commodities being stored in CMDA protected warehouses (read: designed for C-III and now Group-A), it was realized how bad an idea this was. Distribution employees are not trained nor commissioned as firefighters. So, OSHA took a big step back away from it. However, it has taken the code process a VERY long time to catch up.

There is no fire officer worth anything that will use that hose. And no warehouse employee should risk their life in task they are woefully untrained for.

When I was doing HPR engineering for insurance I would always recommend the insured remove said hose if permissible with the AHJ.

Now, as a ASC, our service division makes a crap load of money replacing this hose..... because AHJs don't like change.

sean

2/4/2020 01:26:38 pm

Agreed.

My issue is as a code consultant not enough building and fire inspectors know the difference. They see hose valve and think standpipe.

I tell people hose station per nfpa 13 is for mop up and nfpa 14 is for hose valves for fire fighting.

Jesse

2/4/2020 01:31:30 pm

Yeah they do.

But as these are typically in storage occupancies, the combined hose allowance for CMDA sprinkler protection is 500-GPM. In occupancies with "combined" hose allowance, it is 250-GPM outside hose and 250-GPM INSIDE hose. The presumption is the "inside" hose is pulling off the AS system.

ESFR has only outside hose allowance of 250-gpm, but there is so much water from ceiling level AS no one will want to be anywhere near it ;)

We can h9ope that codes catch up with the real world some day

Kelly

2/5/2020 08:51:22 am

To be honest, I also don't like Class III standpipe systems for the same exact reason. Currently working on a design where class III would be required but the client has requested no 1-1/2" hose valves because they do not want their workers or contractors attempting to use them, and their fire department will only use the 2-1/2" connections. NFPA 14 needs a reboot as well if you ask me...sorry kind of off topic. Just annoyed I need to seek a variance to provide a safer design.

sean

2/5/2020 09:27:42 am

if you look in the building code (IBC) there are numerous exemptions that allow for a class I system

Free Signup

Subscribe and learn something new each day:

Community

Thank You to Our Top
October '20 Contributors!

1. SK
2. Franck
3. Dan W.
4. Jonathan 5. Casey M.

6. Sean
7. Colin L.
8. Mike
9. Jonathan J
10. Daniel G.

Your Post

SUBMIT A QUESTION

The Toolkit

Sprinkler Designer or Engineer?

Get all of our tools, including the Sprinkler Database, Friction Loss Calculator, Fire Pump Analyzer and more:

FREE 30-DAY TRIAL

GET THE TOOLKIT

Filters

Exam Prep

2020 PE Prep Guide
(Available Now!)

PE Prep Series
(Available Now!)

2020 PE Prep Series
Current Leaderboard
(Click to enlarge)

PE Problems

Visit July-October for daily Fire Protection PE Exam sample questions.

Solutions are posted the day after posting.

Comment with your solutions, questions or clarifications.

Please note that questions posted are unofficial and in accordance with NCEES rules are intended to be similar to actual exam questions, not actual exam questions themselves.

RSS Feed

Home - About - Blog - Contact - Exam Prep - Store

Copyright © 2020 MeyerFire, LLC
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author shown and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a commission for orders placed elsewhere.