Tips for Technical Alarm & Sprinkler Learning?

10/2/2023

Could I have opinions on the best way to further my understanding in fire alarm and sprinkler design (dry, wet, deluge, & pre-action)?

My job has requested I further understand these concepts for our designs and cost estimating. I am looking for some of the better study resources from experts like you guys.

Currently, I work for a company with several hundred buildings and various systems. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Software is a great tool but I desire to further my technical understanding in both designs.

Thanks in advance.

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15 Comments

Dan Wilder

10/2/2023 07:53:08 am

Kind of a deep hole...like being thrown into the Ocean....at point Nemo..

First - Experience with people who are knowledgeable and a company/Management that reinforces continued training. Experience in designing those systems, get in with the field on your designs to better understand what goes on paper is not always the best when sweat gets involved.

Contact specific suppliers of those systems to see what trainings they have (too many to list/link). There are several online trainings a month for the basics.

Engage the companies that are currently servicing your buildings, they may offer some basic training for the scope you contract with them. Review their reports and understand the why behind them.

In no particular order (except the first one, because he hosts the platform!):
https://www.meyerfireuniversity.com/
https://nfsa.org/training/
https://www.firesprinkler.org/education-training/
https://www.pathlms.com/afaa#
https://www.sprinkleracademy.com/
https://learning.firetech.com/
https://www.firesmarts.com/course/
https://www.nfpa.org/OnlineLearning

Lastly (for me) is time....regardless of how much book training completed, without real world alignment the concept, understanding will fall short.

Be humble through the process as well, you'll meet two kinds of people along the way, those who'll argue with you to prove you're wrong, and those who'll let you argue with them because they know they are right...

Eddie

10/2/2023 08:55:21 am

LOL...I am not sure if Nemo is my friend or foe. I have a couple fire department inspectors, a fire tech, and a couple contractors (we are not allowed to ask too many questions of contractors) but there are some parts of the design and estimating they don't understand. I will also join Mr. Meyers toolbox. Looks like an awesome reference for information. I appreciate the links. Several of the links I am not familiar with or have seen before. This Meyer's blog is an awesome tool and I appreciate the responses.

Dave

10/2/2023 10:45:17 am

A couple others for the list off the top of my head:

FM Global’s YouTube videos, particularly the “Know More Risk” series:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=know+more+risk

QRFS Blog:
https://blog.qrfs.com/

Minnesota "Quick Response" Newsletter:
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/sfm/programs-services/Pages/Quick-Response-News-Letters.aspx

Anthony

10/2/2023 08:14:25 am

So Joe doesn't need a shameless plug:

https://www.meyerfire.com/university-welcome.html

Also chatgpt is great for "primers" or first pass knowledge ask non code questions and you'll hit 90ish% accuracy. I use GPT4 well worth the 20$ like having a buddy you used to work with that you can float questions, knowing they might not be an expert but can get you past the marketing brochures.

here's a sample:

Prompt: what is a dry sprinkler system

Answer:

A dry sprinkler system, also known as a dry pipe sprinkler system, is a type of fire suppression system that contains air or nitrogen under pressure in the piping instead of water. The system is connected to a water supply through a specially designed valve. In the event of a fire, the heat activates the sprinkler heads, releasing the pressurized air or nitrogen. This drop in pressure triggers the valve to open, allowing water to flow through the pipes and be discharged from the activated sprinkler heads to suppress the fire.

Dry sprinkler systems are used in environments where the ambient temperature may fall below freezing, such as in unheated warehouses, parking garages, and refrigerated spaces. The lack of water in the pipes helps prevent them from freezing and bursting in low-temperature environments, a problem that can occur in wet pipe sprinkler systems which constantly hold water.

The major disadvantage of a dry pipe system compared to a wet pipe system is the delay in water discharge because water is not immediately present in the piping. This delay can be crucial in allowing a fire to grow before water is applied to the flames. The systems are also more complex and expensive to install and maintain.

Prompt: what are common problems with dry systems

Answer:

Dry sprinkler systems are an essential tool for providing fire protection in environments susceptible to freezing, but they can have some issues. Here are common problems and challenges associated with dry pipe sprinkler systems:

Delayed Water Delivery:

Due to the design of dry systems, there’s a delay in water delivery compared to wet systems, which can result in increased fire damage in the event of a fire.
Maintenance Challenges:

Dry systems require more maintenance and inspections to ensure they are in working condition, which can be more labor-intensive and expensive.

Air Leaks:

Air or nitrogen leaks can result in the system losing pressure, which can cause the valve to trip and fill the pipes with water unintentionally.

Corrosion:

The presence of oxygen and moisture can lead to internal corrosion of the pipes, which can affect the system’s effectiveness and lead to the need for repairs or replacement.

Complexity:

Dry systems are more complex than wet systems, making them more prone to issues related to incorrect installation, maintenance, and operation.

Valve Problems:

The dry pipe valve, which separates the air and water, is intricate and can be prone to issues if not properly maintained.

Freezing:

Despite being designed for areas with low temperatures, dry systems can still be susceptible to freezing problems if there is residual water in the pipes.

Obstruction Issues:

Over time, the pipes can accumulate debris, dust, or other obstructions which can hinder the performance of the system in the event of a fire.

Regular inspection, testing, and maintenance by qualified personnel can help to minimize these issues and ensure that the dry sprinkler system operates effectively when needed. Properly addressing issues like leaks, corrosion, and obstructions, and ensuring that the system is adequately pressurized, can help to prevent more significant problems and failures.

Eddie

10/2/2023 09:00:04 am

I heard of GPT but never used. I will definitely look into. Sounds like GPT could help in other areas, too. I appreciate your time and comments.

Aviv

10/3/2023 11:13:17 am

I second, CGBT can be great for high level comprehension!
But, I want to flag that you should be weary of using it for any actual code consulting; I've played around with the model quite a bit, and while it can be great in summarizing things "simple Wiki" style, the code references it provides are *never* accurate (nor should they be, considering that the model was trained on a finite portion of the web up to 2021 or so).

AB link

10/2/2023 08:21:14 am

It's great to hear you're eager to enhance your knowledge of Fire Sprinkler Alarm and Fire Sprinkler Design. Building a solid foundation in these concepts can significantly benefit your work. Here are some valuable resources to help you further your understanding:

NFSA's "Layout, Detail, and Calculation of Fire Sprinkler Systems" Book: This book, published by the National Fire Sprinkler Association (NFSA), is a comprehensive guide that covers various aspects of fire sprinkler systems design. It's a fundamental resource in this field, offering in-depth insights and practical knowledge. You can find more information about it on the NFSA website. (https://nfsa.org/)

National Fire Protection Association (NFPA): NFPA is a renowned organization that develops and publishes codes and standards related to fire protection, including NFPA 13 (Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems) and NFPA 25 (Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water-Based Fire Protection Systems). These standards are crucial for fire sprinkler design. Visit the NFPA website for access to their resources and standards. (https://www.nfpa.org/)

NFPA 13 Handbook: The NFPA 13 Handbook is an invaluable resource, providing in-depth commentary and explanations of NFPA 13's requirements. It offers practical insights for those involved in fire sprinkler design. You can acquire it through the NFPA website. (https://link.nfpa.org/userlogins/new)

American Fire Sprinkler Association (AFSA): AFSA provides various educational resources, training programs, and webinars related to fire sprinkler design and installation. Their website, AFSA.org, is a valuable hub for information and learning opportunities. (https://www.firesprinkler.org/)

YouTube Tutorials: Many educational YouTube channels offer tutorials and demonstrations on fire sprinkler design and alarm systems. Channels like Sprinklermatic University provide practical insights and visual explanations. (https://www.youtube.com/user/Sprinklermatic)

Online Courses: Consider enrolling in online courses from reputable institutions specializing in fire sprinkler design. Websites like Meyer Fire University, Fire Tech, and Fire Smarts for specialized training. (https://www.meyerfire.com/university-welcome.html, https://learning.firetech.com, https://www.firesmarts.com)

Combining theoretical knowledge with practical experience is key to becoming proficient in fire sprinkler design. Hands-on experience and exposure to real-world projects will help you apply what you've learned effectively. Good luck on your journey to becoming an expert in this field!

Eddie

10/2/2023 09:44:51 am

I truly appreciate the responses. All the information is almost overwhelming LOL. NFSA's "Layout, Detail, and Calculation of Fire Sprinkler Systems" Book. I appreciate the name of the layout book and the links. Any other book names would be greatly appreciated.
Do you recommend a layout book for fire alarms?

10/2/2023 08:24:55 am

The NFSA layout technician training is a very good entry level course. Taking the course won't make you an expert, but you are exposed to many topics that would help you be a better estimator. If you don't have the time and/or resources to take the course I would still highly recommend the book:

https://nfsa.org/layoutbook/

As mentioned in the post above, experience (especially working with other experienced individuals) is going to be the primary path to learning, but if you read this book you will learn a lot and would be able to ask better questions as you continue to learn through experience.

Eddie

10/2/2023 09:52:48 am

Thank you and your response is greatly appreciated.

Dave

10/2/2023 10:57:53 am

Oh, and these opublic domain books never go out of style:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Automatic_Sprinkler_Protection/Uw0OAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=dana+gorham+fire+sprinkler&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Handbook_of_Sprinkler_Devices/TeY4AAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=dana+gorham+fire+sprinkler&printsec=frontcover

Eddie

10/2/2023 11:51:06 am

Never realized sprinklers were discussed in the 1800s. Interesting book with all the different heads and topics. Thanks

Pete H

10/2/2023 12:47:03 pm

https://www.radfiresprinklers.com/history-of-firesprinklers/

Technically even before 1800s.

But 1874 is when Parmalee makes the first "automatic fire sprinkler" that was considered practical in application.

Alex link

10/2/2023 12:25:27 pm

As others mentioned, your first stop should be MFU (Meyer Fire University).

For a second step, besides what others have said, I suggest attending the workshops that many of the big manufacturers offer. I went to Victaulic a few months ago, and not only did they do a thorough job explaining everything about fire protection, but they also offered a foundry tour. This lets you see firsthand how the valves are manufactured. It's a great way to understand how to reset and operate various valves, and to get a clearer picture of how these valves really function.

Dale M.

10/11/2023 03:47:21 pm

No one answered you for estimating. RS Means has a pretty decent class, and I think you can now do it on line, versus in the past you physically went to a seminar. There is a class dedicated to MEP systems. But, that's the other point, it seems you only need Fire Protection, maybe Fire Alarm (?), but you will learn about all of the other trades.

https://www.rsmeans.com/products/training/online

Tips for Technical Alarm & Sprinkler Learning?

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