MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • About
    • Catalog
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Standard Practice to Clean Pipe in Construction?

9/16/2021

14 Comments

 
I am reviewing a building under construction for a client, specifically the wet sprinkler system installation.

There was a problem where the installer left caps off the pipe both on pipe being stored and pipe installed at the ceiling. My client stated concerns about debris falling into the pipe due to other trades doing work in the area and requested that the sprinkler installer perform corrective measures, they proposed using compressed air to blow out the pipe.

The client wants them to provide some type of justification, industry standard or NFPA guidance that says this is an acceptable means.

I looked in NFPA 13 and NFPA 25 and only found how to deal with in-service systems that have obstructions.

Has anyone dealt with a similar situation or know what the industry standards are for cleaning out pipe during the construction phase?

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
14 Comments
Alex
9/16/2021 08:00:14 am

Hi Anonymous,

The only thing I've heard of is flushing underground piping before connecting to the sprinkler system.

I cant see why using compressed air to clean the pipe would be an issue/insufficient. My search this morning came up incomplete as well in terms of a code or standard outlining the cleaning process.

Hopefully someone else knows of a code.
Alex

Reply
Jon
9/17/2021 08:10:35 am

I did a lot of research too and I couldn't find anything either, its all about already installed and in use systems.

Reply
Jesse
9/16/2021 08:10:08 am

No issue with blowing the pipe out. You didn't find anything in 13 or 25 because it not within the scope of those standards. Either compressed air or flushing them should meet your needs.

Reply
JOn
9/17/2021 08:12:11 am

Yeah thats what I told both the client and the contractor but the contractor wants something more substantial than the contractor's word.

Reply
James
9/17/2021 08:14:59 am

Photo or video documentation of the pipes stored, or interior photos of the pipes before they go up?

More hassle, but it could settle the uncertainty.

Zackery Geddies
9/16/2021 08:28:52 am

When the pipe is hydrostatically tested at 200psi and drained you are essentially flushing the pipe, same as when the alarms are flow tested you are essentially flushing the pipe.

Reply
Jon
9/16/2021 08:35:43 am

According to NFPA 13 (2019) §16.6, all sprinkler systems should have arrangements for flushing. If there is actual evidence of foreign materials inside the sprinkler piping that would be of sufficient size to plug a sprinkler, flushing with water would be warranted. In my opinion, using compressed air is likely not going to work. Annex D of NFPA 25 provides some helpful guidance on flushing procedures.

Reply
Jon
9/17/2021 08:15:02 am

Thats sort of what I alluded to, but the client wants the contractor to do something to show that theres no debris in the pipe while its still being installed, they've been very delinquent about keeping the pipe protected while its stored and installed in areas where other trades are working. I did read the annex of 25 a while ago, I had no idea what the hydropneumatic flushing was until I read that section.

Reply
David Kendrick
9/16/2021 09:42:20 am

My curiousity is what were the performance requirements of the project?
Is there a directive in the specifications to have caps on the pipes?

Reply
Jon
9/17/2021 08:18:23 am

The pipes from from the factor capped and the client was unhappy that they found stored pipe in work areas without them. Apparently one of the client reviewers found a lot of dirt inside one of the uncapped sections of pipe and that set the whole thing off. There are some elbows facing the ceiling in areas of work where stuff could get in there, the client asked the contractor about keeping debris out of the pipe and the contractor just sort of waved them off which the client didn't like. I'm not sure if a RFP, spec or code requirement to keep the caps on but its like keeping the element guard on a sprinkler until the area is done with work to protect the bulb.

Reply
Craig Hanson
9/16/2021 10:00:05 am

Before I became an Fire Plans dude I was a Fire Sprinkler fitter for many years and there is some things to consider. 1) pipe never shows up on job sites with protective caps. Back in the day you would only see this on threaded pipe to protect the threads. It is the fitters responsibility to ensure the pipe is free from obstructions. There was a lumber mill that bunt down because a 4x4 was left in the pipe. No amount of flushing would have fixed this. I have also been on a job site that had union and non-union fitters on the same project. The result was some sabotage and we had to tape off our open mains at the end of the day. Hydraulic testing does not fix debris in the pipe, it just moves it. when you fill a system up for the 1st time you will know right away if there is rocks in the pipe as you will hear it!. If there is suspected debri in the system there are only 2 ways to correct it. 1) take it apart, all of it. 2) back flush each line from the most remote to the valve. I have done this to many dry systems that get full of corrosion. Its time consuming and requires special equipment. Bottom line, debris may get into pipe while on the ground and its all fitters now how to spot it and correct it before putting into the air. Stuff in pipe after it is hung is next to impossible unless it was placed there.

Reply
Dave
9/16/2021 10:24:27 am

What Mr. Hanson said above ^^ ! (I always tell my design trainees, listen to your fitters, or former fitters, they can teach you a lot!) Also, what Mr. Kendrick asked, were there specs on the job? Because I have seen specs that say to protect the ends with caps or plugs while pipe is being stored, but in decades, I have never really seen this done, no competitive bid is going to include the material and shop/labor time for this exercise, and it is not industry standard. It's up to the fabricator to make sure any "coupons" (the drilled-out discs) are retrieved, or hung from the pipe if field-cut. And up to the fitter to make sure no debris fell into the pipe before being installed. And they can't be expected to close-off each end of pipe as it is being installed. Like Mr. Hansen said, I HAVE seen odd things found in the pipe, either flushed up through the underground, or intentionally stuffed inside the pipe. While the safety concern expressed can be appreciated, in my opinion, it's a misguided and unrealistic solution.

Reply
Jerry Clark
9/16/2021 01:06:30 pm

This is why its important to look inside the pipe at the same time you do your weld inspections. I've directed fitters to blow debris out many a time, and on some rare occasions I've rejected pipe that had excessive rust due to extended outdoor storage. It's like Craig said, once it's hung, its too late.

Reply
mike
9/18/2021 02:55:11 pm

Flush with water including the drop IMO. use masking tape over the ends daily. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​Jan 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is an International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • About
    • Catalog
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT