MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Shouldn't Sprinkler Leak Show in Hydro. Test?

12/6/2021

15 Comments

 
We had an insured account suffer a sprinkler leakage loss when the sprinkler system was charged with water and a sprinkler leaked. 

Wouldn't the above-ground hydrostatic test have discovered this?

I know the hydrostatic test is intended to discover leaks in pipes but shouldn't it also identify leaking sprinklers?

The general contractor and sprinkler contractor are having to replace multiple thousands of sprinklers in these buildings. I appreciate your input!

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
15 Comments
Fred
12/6/2021 06:01:43 am

NFPA 13 allows hydrostatic testing with sprinklers in or out. Possible that system was a tested with plugs instead of sprinklers.

Reply
Anthony
12/6/2021 07:50:15 am

Only pendant and side wall head outlets can be plugged and tested. However Its bad practice to not at least run an air test on the system after heads have been installed. If for no other reason than to ensure you didn't miss a head during install. That MIGHT have helped avoid this problem.

Why are they replacing thousands of heads? Shouldn't only the leaking heads be replaced?


Make sure you contact the manufacturer to ensure they didn't have a recall.

Also Might want to check that the heads were not defective upon delivery to the installing contractor. Maybe an independent analysis from a consulting quality engineer?

Reply
Dan Wilder
12/6/2021 07:52:12 am

There is a lot of info needed to make a better reply.

Was the system (or the leak location more specifically) new, under a TI that required a hydro, or existing and under a 25 inspection?
What level was the leak - Drops up to a full blow out?
Where was the leak - At the thread/fitting interface? From the seat of the sprinkler?
Was the leak from the fitting (pipe/fitting) instead of the sprinkler/fitting?

The Hydrostatic test (like any other test) can confirm continuity a the time of the test and is a good indicator of a complete system however I have had dry fit CPVC fittings, grooved couplings not tightened down, welds and threaded fittings leak pass a hydro then, then at some later date break/leak/blow apart.

Unless there is a valid reason to change out all the sprinklers (older sprinklers under voluntary recall perhaps?), changing out all of the sprinklers seems excessive (again, missing some info).

I'm not looking to call out a MFG, but have there been conversations with the installing contractor and the sprinkler MFG?

Reply
Glenn Berger
12/6/2021 08:11:57 am

Simple answer to the original question.

A hydrostatic test, if done correctly, would have failed if there was a leak in the system.

The question that other commenters mentioned: When was the hydrostatic test completed? If there was a leakage in the system, then where are the flow alarms?

Reply
Jesse
12/6/2021 08:18:33 am

A lot of variables here.

The hydro is to test the piping primarily. Often, some pendents are yet to be installed at the time of the hydro, so if that's the case the pendent wouldn't have been subjected to the test. If it were installed, and leaked at the time of the hydro, the hydro would have failed.

If there was a subsequent finish-out after the hydro, there would not have been a second hydro if the modification was small enough, but rather a test at operating pressure.

Finally, there is the possibility that the sprinkler did in fact just fail. This is pretty rare, but it has happened.

Reply
Alex link
12/6/2021 08:47:45 am

A lot of good comments above.

To second everyone, to provide a more detailed response, we would need more information. Since the test can be done with plugs, it’s possible that it didn’t show. Although, always request an air test with all heads. That way you ensure your entire system is sound.

I’m also curious why you have thousands of heads to replace?

Hope the situation pans out.
Alex

Reply
Greg
12/6/2021 08:57:10 am

A root cause investigation is needed. As in many of the replies above, various factors appear plausible but there should be a narrowing of these to accurately determine cause.

Construction projects move quickly and small decisions can change an outcome. Working through a detailed analysis will help to arrive at a plausible conclusion. A single action or independent actions that aligned will present as the reasonable cause.

Reply
Brad K
12/6/2021 10:05:10 am

I for one would appreciate a code reference for hydrostatic testing with plugs mentioned above. I myself do not recognize hydrostatic testing without the sprinkler installed as one certifying a system by state statute. NFPA 13 & 25 defines a hydrostatic test on pipe with attached appurtenances. I would consider the sprinkler an attachment. Even an act of adjusting more than 20 sprinklers requires a new hydrostatic test per NFPA 25 5.5.1.

Reply
Brad K
12/6/2021 10:11:29 am

Sorry Greg.
I mistakenly clicked the wrong reply button.

HJ
12/9/2021 10:18:15 am

Agreed.

Steve monroe
12/12/2021 01:36:11 pm

30 yrs in sprinkler trade.I would have to say a hydro test without the heads installed is not a solid point of the final outcome of the hydro in the first place.
Why double the time of the final outcome?.
Who is installing this job?.

Mike
12/6/2021 09:44:26 am

I've had leaks from manufacturing defects the manufacturer withheld until after we complained about them.

These were found during the hydro.

I'm not sure how large your leak was and the manufacturer needs to be involved.

I'd save all the heads.

It doesn't seem plausible all heads would have leaked. Could have been caused by mechanical damage by a fitter or another tradesman.

Reply
Jack G
12/6/2021 11:57:07 am

Always hydro with heads installed.
If thousands of heads are leaking, it sounds like a problem that occurred years ago(30 or so ). When the manufacturer puts a thread on the sprinkler, sometimes there is a microscopic layer of metal dust. If you Teflon over or dope over, days later leaks occur. A major supplier paid out dearly.
With a lot of the heads being made overseas, the problem could of occurred again.

Reply
sean
12/6/2021 12:24:33 pm

something really went wrong with this. I don't see how replacing tons of heads could not have been caught during any of the pre-testing.

Who witnessed the hydro?

Reply
Dan Wilder
12/6/2021 01:20:32 pm

Testing with plugs:

NFPA 13 - 2019
28.2.1.8* - Allowable with pendents & horizontal sidewalls or plugs.

*Appendix says a second test "should not" require an additional hydrostatic test.

Not advisable but understandable with varying construction elevation tolerances and where the actual ceiling is measured from (slab, FF, top of floor overlayment)

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​May 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A1171
    Aba
    Ada
    Asce-7
    Asme-a171
    Astm-e1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design-documents
    En-12845
    Explosion-protection-prevention
    Fire-detection-and-alarm-systems
    Fire-dynamics
    Flammable-combustible-liquids
    Fm-global
    Human-behavior
    IBC
    Icc500
    IFC
    Imc
    Ipc
    Irc
    Iso
    Means Of Egress
    Nbc
    Nfpa-1
    Nfpa-10
    NFPA 101
    Nfpa-101
    Nfpa-11
    Nfpa-110
    Nfpa-1142
    Nfpa-1221
    NFPA 13
    Nfpa-13
    NFPA 13D
    Nfpa-13r
    NFPA 14
    Nfpa-15
    Nfpa-16
    Nfpa-17a
    Nfpa-20
    Nfpa-2001
    Nfpa-214
    Nfpa 22
    Nfpa-220
    Nfpa 24
    Nfpa-241
    Nfpa-25
    Nfpa-25
    Nfpa-291
    Nfpa-291
    Nfpa-30
    Nfpa-30b
    Nfpa-33
    Nfpa-400
    Nfpa-409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    UPC
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    June 2023
    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is a NICET Recognized Training Provider and International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT