Seismic Separation Assembly for 8" Building Gap?

1/17/2022

I have a project which includes two 6-level buildings (a parking garage and a residential structure).

The garage is reinforced concrete and cold. The residential portion right next to it (8 inches away) is mostly wood construction and warm. The project has a seismic design category of B - so no earthquake bracing throughout. Because the garage is cold, I have the dry control valve on a combination standpipe in a warm closet in the residential portion. The 3" feed then travels across the 8" gap to the garage. This happens at all 6 levels.

My question is, do I need a seismic separation assembly on one side or the other at each of the levels where the dry feed travels across the gap?

Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

9 Comments

Glenn Berger

1/17/2022 08:11:39 am

Are you passing through two separate walls? Is there fire-rated construction between the two facilities?

Since you call the space a "gap" and not a seismic separation, then in my opinion no seismic separation is required. But depending on the answers to my questions, I may need to revise my response.

Kallmeyer

1/17/2022 08:27:32 am

We are passing through two separate walls. There is fire-rated construction. Nowhere in the arch or struct plans does it call this "gap" a seismic separation.

Dan Wilder

1/17/2022 08:24:52 am

What do the structural plans/details call out for this gap?

If it states "Expansion Joint", then no and you'll follow just a flex coupling within 24" (as a minimum), if it calls out Seismic then those additional requirements need to be followed.

The last couple projects I have had "Expansion Joints" greater than a couple inches, we received a change order to provide seismic assemblies across the joint (it was qualified in the bid which helped greatly) as the design team thought that the building would be moving that much in a short timeframe...I guess the 12" I beam column flex of 3"-4" over 15' of elevation change didn't concern them, it was the sprinkler piping that was the issue (not roof drains, CWP/HWP, or anything electrical...)

Brian Gerdwagen FPE

1/17/2022 08:25:43 am

What you have is a building expansion joint that will need some flexibility in the piping to accommodate the movement of the building due to settling or thermal changes.

SCHULMAN

1/17/2022 08:57:42 am

rated separation expansion joints are designed so that one or the other structure could fail catastrophically without taking the other structure with it ... the flexible "break-away" couplings on the piping will save one side of your fire protection system in the same way.
unrelated to seismic ...and as others mentioned - helps with "small movements too" ...

1/17/2022 09:26:24 am

Can you feed the garage just once at the bottom, then have a dry standpipe feeding only the garage? With this, you would only have 1 area feeding the garage.

Alex

1/17/2022 08:13:51 pm

Hi,

If you are still in design, I agree with RJ. I would recommend bringing in a single feed into the 1st level of the garage (Contingent if the architect can provide a heated enclosure). I would then provide dry valves within the enclosure to feed all levels of the garage.

Alex

Pete D.

1/17/2022 07:53:00 pm

This is off topic from the question you asked, but depending on the temp difference between the two zones, you may have a problem with moisture condensing on the warm side of the thermal zone barrier. I would insulate 12" into the warm zone and 3-6 ft into the cold zone, depending on delta T.

Anthony

1/18/2022 07:37:46 am

A lot of comments on if you HAVE to but id suggest you SHOULD. Buildings move and settle if you're not designing for the future are you really designing at all?

Also this may not require a full seismic loop but might require larger than normal building penetration well firestopped. I'd consider 2 or 3 1'-0 pieces with flex couplings maybe a swing joint depending on the arrangement to take up building shift at the joint.

The "V" loop may be more worth your time than the full "u" style if you do go the flex loop rout.

Leave a Reply.

Home
Our Cause

The Blog
The Forum

PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit
MeyerFire University

Pricing
Login
Support
Contact Us

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

MeyerFire, LLC is a NICET Recognized Training Provider and International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.
All text, images, and media Copyright © 2016-2024 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

Seismic Separation Assembly for 8" Building Gap?

Leave a Reply.

ALL-ACCESS

SUBSCRIBE

COMMUNITY

YOUR POST

PE EXAM

FILTERS

ARCHIVES

PE PREP SERIES