MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • About
    • Catalog
    • Content Library
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Is New Paint in Paint Booth Properly Protected?

1/19/2021

11 Comments

 
We have been asked if a 20+ year old wet pipe sprinkler system we installed into a paint application room is the correct method of protection for a specific paint product that is currently being used.

The MSDS sheets for a few of the products they now use indicate protection with dry chemical, foam, or water fog.

I have been told that the MSDS sheets typically refer to the product as its being stored and not necessarily as its being applied. The storage is not happening in this room of course, but in approved fire-rated storage cabinets outside the area. None of the typical requirements for alternate protection are met per NFPA 33.

Basically other than the product data sheets, this is a run of the mill paint application area. Nothing automated or fancy.

Anyone have any experience with a similar situation?

​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
11 Comments
Dan Wilder
1/19/2021 08:09:25 am

The paint booth will have limited quantities of the liquids so other than verifying design criteria per current NFPA requirements (if needed), I don't see an issue with the booth itself.

The mixing/storage room is a larger question (I know you stated cabinets) and would need to be evaluated for current inventory, quantities, and the appropriate extinguishment (and possibly containment).

Reply
Jesse
1/19/2021 09:16:12 am

Agree with Dan here. and it depends on the paint. Let's presume its a Class I Flammable Liquid. The application in the paint booth is your question, so this is EH-2 requiring a density of 0.40 / 2,500 with 500 hose. If your wet pipe automatic sprinkler system can achieve that density then I'd submit its adequately protected.

Note that your storage and mixing room(s) is / are a different story altogether and protected under NFPA 30. Again, assuming Class I Flammable Liquid for the product.

Reply
Taylor Jenkins
2/1/2021 09:14:14 am

Keep in mind that with the EH-II protection you need K11.2 heads because of the 0.4 gpm/sf density requirement. Most older protection in paint booths don't have K11 heads installed.

We typically add a control valve at the base of the drop within reach from the floor as well when doing new protection but rarely see them installed in older applications..

Reply
Casey Milhorn
2/1/2021 09:39:02 am

Thanks Taylor. Yeah, my 25 year old self knew enough to use 11.2Ks 20 years ago for hydraulic purposes at the very least. Sometimes I cringe when I have to go back and look at what I did in the early years, but usually I find that I did okay. My 45 year old self would probably give the 25 year old me a B- on most of my stuff... lol.

Glenn Berger
1/19/2021 09:47:32 am

For the Paint Booth (Spray Room), I would check the condition of the sprinkler(s) provided within.

I would recommend having the correct type of fire extinguisher adjacent to the room for manual extinguishment.

Reply
Sarah Swan link
1/19/2021 10:27:42 am

This will likely require a review by a fire protection engineer or code consultant to ensure that the existing system is adequate for the hazard. In addition, my company has observed reduced water supplies across the country as municipalities try to cope with aging infrastructure. If you are an installer, assuming your company does not have the qualifications to perform this analysis, and you would like some assistance in reviewing the existing sprinkler system for adequacy, please feel free to contact me at sarah@the-fpi.com.

Reply
Casey Milhorn
1/20/2021 12:17:49 pm

Thanks Sarah! I actually deal with one of your cohorts here locally, Corey Kinsman. He helps out on some things from time to time.

Reply
Jesse
1/19/2021 10:34:04 am

I think all we need to do to judge adequacy is a calc. We know that EH-2 applies requiring 0.40 / 2,500 w/ 250-hose. If we have a flow test we can calc this system to see if we get that density. Before our fancy-schmancy 3D design software we have now there were a lot of software products that would easily run a quick calc. As an insurance HPR engineer, we calc'd EVERYTHING. I used an ancient MS-DOS software called Hypercalc. It was a little keystroke intense for a tree system, which is probably what you've got there, but once we determined the end head pressure available it was quick and easy to find the overall density.

Reply
CJ Bonczyk
1/19/2021 11:04:59 am

Questions I would ask are what was the paint booth used and calculated for previously 20+ years ago?
Is the paint booth current usage the same since it was built or has the spray applications, paints, etc, changed since then?
Or is the code for the same application 20 years ago changed for today’s standards?

If the booth and application with the paints has not changed and only code has been updated then there is no need for any changes outside of NFPA 13 requirements.

If the owner or insurance agent is asking to see if they need to change their protection scheme because the paint booth has changed spray application/ paint type/ chemicals etc. then a reevaluation of the paint booth itself is required to determine if the existing system will meeting NFPA 13, 33, insurance & AHJ requirements hydraulically.

It is safe to say that the paint booth can be protected per 13 & 33 where applicable if nothing is stored within the booth itself.

Current storage in cabinets or a cut off room of the solvents, chemicals, paints etc. will need to be evaluated to ensure quantities, separation distances, containment, etc. are met. Additionally, any mixing room (if fire rated) will need to be reevaluated to ensure that the occupancy, storage and quantities are complying as well. The proper extinguishing agent can be determined (i.e. dry chem, foam,) with supplemental water protection at the ceiling.

Reply
Franck
1/19/2021 11:49:08 am

The MSDS data sheet is to fight a fire with manual firefighting means (i.e. portable fire extinguishers). This is why it is not refered to sprinkler protection.
But it is indicated that you can use water fog portable fire extinguishers which means that you can normally use water to control a fire.
If the product is a combustible/flammable liquid (depending on its flashpoint), then the storage should be protected according to NFPA 30.
If limited quantities stored inside approved safety cabinets, then this is normally fine (but you will still probably need a sprinkler proetction as you may mix/use the liquids inside the storage room), as well as adequate ventilation.

In addition to the design density (should be considered as EH Gr 2, as indicated above), don't forget the following requirements/good practices for the paint spray booth (that may not be available if the installation is old):
- The sprinkler spacing should be 1 head / 100 sq ft maximum.
- To prevent collection of paint on the sprinkler heads, which would delay activation, the heads should be covered with a cellophane bag having a thickness of 0.003 in. or less or a thin paper bag.
- The sprinkler system should be controlled by a separate, dedicated, listed indicating valve, accessible and operable from the floor level.
- The activation of the automatic fire protection should be system should be interlocked with the spray booth and shut down all spray application operations.
In addition, the sprinkler alarm should be relayed to a permanently attended location (guard house, main control room, outside central station).

You may also need a sprinkler protection inside ducts.
Any portion of a piping/exhaust system having the potential for combustible residue buildup on the inside, where the duct sectional area is greater than or equal to 75 in.2 - i.e. for pipes with a 10 in. diameter or larger - should be provided with an automatic extinguishing system inside the duct.

The good news if your building is protected by sprinklers (in addition to the paint spray booth) is that it is not anticipated that both the building ceiling and spray area systems will operate simultaneously if installed in accordance with NFPA standards, so a total demand including both the ceiling system and the spray area systems is not required for hydraulic calculations and sizing of the water supply.

Reply
Casey Milhorn
1/20/2021 12:25:30 pm

Thank you everyone for the comments. That's what I needed. The request came from a local AHJ inspection and only the paint application room has the existing EH 2 system. The only comment was verify that the existing system is okay to cover the paint product being used due to the MSDS sheets saying wet protection might not be advisable.
I did the design 20 years ago myself and don't remember the circumstances of only the app room needing coverage, but I remember it being a little strange. I think I will suggest that the system appears to be adequate for application of paint products, per NFPA 33, but additional manual protection might be wise for fire fighting of stored or concentrated quantities, especially since no sprinkler protection existing outside the paint application room. Thanks again.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​May '22 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NICET
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is an International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2022 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • About
    • Catalog
    • Content Library
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT