Fittings, Couplings from Different Manufacturers?

10/29/2021

We are completing the build of a 95,000 sqft, 2-story facility. The sprinkler installers are using two manufacturers of fittings and couplings.

Our construction specifications require the fittings, couplings, and gaskets to be from the same manufacturer.

They have installed fittings (elbows, tees, etc) from one manufacturer with couplings from another, and vice versa, in multiple areas. I am concerned that any issue later on with that condition could be problematic with liability.

I understand there are specifications and tolerances the manufacturers must meet - but is this an issue?

I am the AHJ as well as the owner (this is a state building). Thanks in advance.

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20 Comments

Alex

10/29/2021 06:59:20 am

Hi Anonymous,

What the are two manufactures? I personally do not see an issue with having two different fittings as long as they both conform to your specifications. The only issue I see down the line is replacement parts.

Thanks,
Alex

Dan

10/29/2021 08:08:21 am

Victaulic and Anvil. I have since learned that these are basically Viking.

Alex

10/29/2021 08:36:14 am

Hi Dan,

I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Like Michael said below, the real concern with different manufactures pertains to CPVC.

Good luck on wrapping up your project!
Alex

Greg

11/2/2021 04:00:37 pm

As far as I am aware Victaulic strongly discourages, if not possibly does not allow this

Glenn Berger

10/29/2021 08:07:22 am

Should not be a problem as long as both products are listed by a nationally recognize testing lab.

Michael

10/29/2021 08:09:34 am

Typically, it is only a real issue when it pertains to CPVC. Due to some of the solvents that one manufacture may use to adhere piping may not be compatible with the other. As long as they are FM (approved) or UL (Listed) I wouldn’t think it would be a very large deal with steel or iron materials. They should all go through a similar listing and testing process. However, If you know the manufactures of the fittings and couplings you could reach out to the respective companies and see if they have an field incidents where other manufactures were non-compatible for any reason.

10/29/2021 08:11:15 am

What you have said in your question answers it for you. 'Our construction specifications require the fittings, couplings, and gaskets to be from the same manufacturer.' If you are not going to have the installers follow the specifications, why have specifications?

martin moffitt

10/29/2021 01:33:55 pm

Totally agree and why did it take this long to relize the cotractor was not adhering to the specifications in the contract?? not looking to beat anybody up

10/29/2021 08:37:15 am

Construction specifications are given for a reason. Your contractor would have based their project bid on those specifications, and agreed to follow them by signing the contract. As the AHJ, you may have the authority to amend your agency's construction specifications, if necessary.

Jack G

10/29/2021 08:43:00 am

Mechanically they should work as they are built to the same spec.
Problem will arise where coupling and fitting ( grooved) are not the same, and there is water damage. Good luck collecting on that.
Years ago, I had leaks on schd 40 pipe , seamed pipe, where the water leaked along the seam, under the gasket. I had to take pipes apart, clean lackered coating off, smooth out seam, and put back together. I used a Vic fit end cleaning tool.
The supplier and manufacturer argued that grooved couplings were not approved for schd 40 seamed pipe, only threading and welding.
My cost was about 5 grand, which the supplier paid.
Be careful mixing approved/ listed products.

Jesse

10/29/2021 08:45:26 am

Usually it isn't an issue. A lot of branded products are manufactured by third parties and labeled differently.

As long as the same standards are being applied. For instance, Victaulic's IGS isn't compatible with others.

Kellery

10/29/2021 09:11:37 am

While as long as they are using apples to apples, it should be a problem as others have stated they would be manufactured to the same spec.
But your job specs call for same products, although being both property owner and AHJ you could accept.
My concern would be how the warranty is written, some products say you can only use same manufactured products.

Todd Wyatt

10/29/2021 09:11:49 am

This is a contractural issue for the Owner (e.g. the State) to determine if this "noncompliant" Work is acceptable. The Contractor is required to provide the Owner with the Project per the Contract Documents (Drawings and Specifications). Most Specifications provide the Contractor instructions to request a substitution during the submittal process. If the Contractor skipped this step, submittal the "noncompliant" products, and they were reviewed and accepted, the Owner still has authority (depending on the Specifications submittal language) to require the Contractor to provide fittings from a sole source. The Owner can also accept the "noncompliant" Work as is. I would recommend reviewing the warranty information as it may be voided if all fittings are not from a sole source.

CJ Bonczyk

10/29/2021 09:12:03 am

You should have the contractor provide you with the technical data on both the coupling being used and the fittings. You can request that the contractor provide a letter from the manufacturer for both products that there is no installation warranty and or compatibility issues of the items being mixed during installation. If both manufacturers state that there is no issue you are fine. If they bring up anything regarding warranty/compatibility/integrity then you can easily argue your case. Additionally the contractor signed a contract and provided a scope. Review those items as they are bound to what they agreed to and if they chose not to follow it you have every right to make them adhere to the requirements as outlined in the execution specifications.

Matthew Signes link

10/29/2021 09:26:22 am

For Installation of Victaulic End Caps with Victaulic Installation-Ready Couplings:
• Victaulic Installation-Ready couplings shall be used with specific types of Victaulic end caps. These end caps are identified by markings that are listed below. Always verify that the proper Victaulic end cap is being used.
• When assembling a Victaulic Installation-Ready coupling onto a Victaulic end cap, verify that the end cap is seated fully against the center leg of the gasket.
For full installation requirements, always refer to the specific instructions in this handbook for the Victaulic coupling.

For Victaulic Style 009N Couplings
• Use only Victaulic FireLock™ No. 006 End Caps containing the “EZ” marking on the inside face or Victaulic No. 60 End Caps containing the “EZ QV” marking on the inside face.

For Victaulic Style 607 Couplings
• Use only Victaulic No. 660 End Caps with the “QV” marking on the inside face.

For All Other Styles of Victaulic Installation-Ready Couplings for the Original Groove System (OGS)
• Use only Victaulic No. 60 End Caps containing the “EZ QV” marking on the inside face.

https://www.victaulic.com/assets/uploads/literature/I-100.pdf

Chad

10/29/2021 09:46:16 am

From one AHJ to another… unless you want to enforce the contract specs (assuming the brand was spec) it’s not a code issue… unless improperly installed as other alluded to.

You also should ask… did they have supply issues or are they using up old stock from a previous job. Only way that would be an issue is if the Vic fittings gaskets are old and dry rotted

Dan

10/29/2021 09:59:19 am

We did have a meeting with the Architect, Contractor, Engineering firm, and sprinkler installer. The specs came from the architect/engineers and became a concern for me when I saw what was being installed versus what was submitted. The warranty is one year from substantial completion no mater what was used.
There are obviously supply issues across all trades and things we use in our own lives. This was an issue for the sprinkler installers as they had to use 2 different suppliers that carried one or the other but not both. All parties agreed that this should not be an issue.

I appreciate the all of the comments and thank you Joe for the opportunity to have a place to ask the questions.. I have learned a lot about the manufacturers and the process in the last week.

David Kendrick

10/29/2021 10:39:53 am

This is restating information from your original question statement.

If you have a failure at a coupling / fitting connection where the manufacturers are different, who gets sued?

If you specified something and the installing contractors justification is "similar", well that is not the same.

This only comes from experience and personal opinion.

JackG

10/29/2021 02:01:20 pm

If I correctly remember, Vic coups and fittings , you do not have to torque the bolts on the couplings. Anvil couplings, and anyone else’s, you do.
So why would you mix and match. Asking for trouble in my opinion.

Eric

11/3/2021 11:35:41 am

As a side issue to this concern, be aware that grooved fittings from different MFGs in particular having different equivalent lengths for hydraulic calculations. Newer design programs utilizing BIM processes allow the designer to pick a specific MFG when placing fittings in the sprinkler piping model. The fittings are then included in parts lists for ordering and included in the hydraulic calculations.

The software designers for these programs go to great lengths to fill their material catalogs with the proper equivalent lengths based on the MFG spec sheets. This is a great boon for getting more accurate calculations and fabrication reports, but if the designer uses one brand of fitting for the calcs, and purchasing buys another one with a worse Equiv Length you could have a pretty surprising change in pressure loss by the time all the fittings are added together!

Point is, as digital technology encroaches more into this industry, everyone will have to pay closer attention to just how the design of a system is being calculated. Computers are great, but everyone knows the saying "garbage in, garbage out"

Fittings, Couplings from Different Manufacturers?

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