Dematic Pouch Sorter an Open-Top Container?

5/13/2020

Has anyone dealt with a Dematic pouch sorter system?

The fire sprinkler contractor stated "the pouch sorter utilizes a pouch to move products through the building from storage locations to packing locations. The pouch basically is a U shaped bag with shorter side panels to keep products in the pouch. The pouch is constructed with two holes on the bottom corners of the pouch. Dematic and their European team has gone through a testing process to prove that the pouches do not need to be considered an Open Top container per NFPA 13."

4 Comments

Thomas Jones

5/13/2020 10:37:58 am

3.9.1.19* Open-Top Container. A container of any shape that is entirely or partially open on the top and arranged so as to allow for the collection of discharging sprinkler water cascading through the storage array.
A.3.9.1.19 Open-Top Container. Open-top containers can prevent water from running across the top to storage and down the flues and can also collect water. The container will prevent water penetration to a fire in lower levels where it is needed. Rack or flue collapse can also occur if too much water is collected. Consideration should be given to the potential degree of water collection possible within the container when applying the definition of an open-top container. The following conditions should be considered:
(1)
Small openings at the top of containers containing such items as fresh produce are quite common and should not be considered as an open-top container.
(2)
Arrangements that include open-top containers that are all located on the bottom tier of rack storage do not prevent penetration of water and should not be considered an open-top container.
(3)
Containers having either wire mesh siding or large uniform openings along the bottom perimeter of each container, such that water enters the container at the same flow rate and discharge evenly into the flue spaces should not be considered as an open-top container provided the contents of the container are not water absorbent and are not capable of blocking such container openings.
(4)
Open-top containers that are stored in fixed location on racks equipped with flat or domed-shaped fixed-in-place lids that are provided directly above the open-top containers and prevent water from entering the open-top container, as well as distribute water equally into all flue spaces should not be considered an open-top container.

Has the contractor supplied you any sort of paperwork or listing to back up their statement? Maybe FM or UL tested these and you are fine to not consider them open-top containers.

5/13/2020 10:43:06 am

I used this youtube video for a visual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61FdXesP0kE

Check out NFPA 13, 2016 §3.9.1.19 and A.3.9.1.19 for some context on the intent of the open-top container definition. I recently worked on an open top container project and in my opinion, these dont look like they fall into the open-top container category since open-top containers are typically found in racks and literally fill up with water which obstructs flue space protection. I would say that this situation is also not addressed by NFPA 13 and you should consult an FPE to determine an adequate design criteria. It almost looks similar to a facility that would have bulk hanging garments if there are alot of the pouches (which is outside of NFPA 13 per table A.5.6). It also might be worth reaching out to their insurance company to find out if there are any other existing facilities you could look into.

Franck

5/13/2020 11:11:22 am

As indicated by NK, open top containers are a concern wgen they can collect water and avoid the cooling effect to goods stored underneath (in a rack storage configuration, for example).
In your case, it looks like it will be only one « level » as you won’t store them one above the other.
This means that in you should not consider it as a potential issue.
It would be the same with open top containers stored on the ground on one level only.
This is also a good practice when storing open top containers in rack. If possible, store them only at the bottom rack level only (it will then not present an issue anymore), never at the top tier.

Jessica Lutz

5/13/2020 02:50:05 pm

Very interesting technology!

"Dematic and their European team has gone through a testing process to prove that the pouches do not need to be considered an Open Top container per NFPA 13."

Definitely ask to see the report of their test results...

Also, some jurisdictions may require a PE to stamp this performance-based design.

Dematic Pouch Sorter an Open-Top Container?

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