MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Calculate 4 or 8 Sprinkler for TJI Rated Assembly?

3/23/2023

4 Comments

 
​Here's a twist on the 9/28/2021 post regarding 4 or 8 sprinkler residential calcs (link here):

​Given an NFPA 13-2016 fully sprinklered wood framed apartment project, with residential sprinklers, and unsprinklered combustible concealed TJI spaces between floors, per Section 8.15.1.2.6 similar to this system:
Picture
Spaces between joists are blocked into 160 cubic feet using the same TJI material.

Spaces are not firestopped with a minimum ½” drywall on the sides of certain TJI’s into 160 cubic foot spaces.

Since the 2013 NFPA-13 came out, my understanding has been that unless we were to install ½” gypsum on the side of every few TJI’s to subdivide into 160 cubic foot spaces, an 8-sprinkler calculation is required in the occupied spaces above and below this assembly.

Some have argued that since it’s a 1-hour assembly, a 4 sprinkler calculation is fine since that’s greater than a 30 minute barrier (light hazard water supply duration) as discussed in 11.2.3.1.5.1 (B). However, Annex A11.2.3.1.5.1 seems support the 8 sprinkler calculation because the assembly is the qualifying non-sprinklered area.

However, in the above example, a portion of that assembly in itself provides a 30 minute barrier. It’s a 1 hour rated assembly but In this case, the bottom is 2 layers of Type X which in itself is greater than a 30 minute barrier.

I’m guessing that the top with tongue and groove sheeting and 1” of gypsum would also provide at least a 30 minute barrier.

Would the NFPA 13 sprinklered dwelling spaces above and below this (allowed) non-sprinklered floor/ceiling space require a 4 or 8 sprinkler calculation?

​
​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments
Dan Wilder
3/23/2023 08:58:56 am

The way I ready the 13-2022 Edition, you are still required to provide the 8 sprinkler calculation but you would not have to extend that 8 sprinkler calculation (or other design method) to the adjacent areas that do not have unsprinklered areas (it would go back to the 4 sprinkler design)

19.3.1.2 *
Unless the requirements of 19.2.3.1.5.2 are met for buildings having unsprinklered combustible concealed spaces, as described in 9.2.1 and 9.3.18, the minimum design area of sprinkler operation for that portion of the building shall be eight sprinklers.

19.3.1.2.1 *
The design area of eight sprinklers shall be applied only to the portion of the residential sprinklers that are adjacent to the qualifying combustible concealed space.

A.19.3.1.2.1
In order for the minimum eight sprinkler requirement for the size of the remote area to not be extended to the adjacent area, the qualifying concealed space must be separated by the entire fire-rated assembly. Such assemblies often have combustible structural members separating the exterior membranes that can create a concealed combustible space that can qualify for omitting sprinkler protection. If the fire-rated assembly is the qualifying concealed space, an interior fire would greatly reduce the assigned fire-rated duration.

19.3.1.2.2
The term adjacent shall apply to any sprinkler system protecting a space above, below, or next to the qualifying concealed space except where a barrier with a fire resistance rating at least equivalent to the water supply duration completely separates the concealed space from the sprinklered area.

Refer to the commentary following 19.2.3.1.5.1 for information on the separation from the adjacent area.

(B)
The term adjacent shall apply to any sprinkler system protecting a space above, below, or next to the qualifying concealed space except where a barrier with a fire resistance rating at least equivalent to the water supply duration completely separates the concealed space from the sprinklered area.

The intention of 19.2.3.1.5.1 is not to permit the omission of sprinklers from combustible concealed spaces but, rather, to compensate for the anticipated delay of sprinkler operation for a fire originating in an unprotected, combustible concealed space. As noted, 9.2.1 describes the conditions under which sprinklers do not have to be installed in concealed spaces.

The 3000 ft2 (280 m2) area of operation requirement also applies to the room design method and supersedes limiting the remote area based only on room size. This requirement is further clarified by 19.2.3.2.8.2, whereby the 3000 ft2 (280 m2) requirement is applied after all other area modifications have been made.

The requirement for buildings having an unprotected, combustible concealed space is that they must have a 3000 ft2 (280 m2) remote area. This requirement does not apply to the entire building but only to the portion of the building adjacent to the unprotected, combustible concealed space. The term adjacent refers not only to the area horizontally on the floor of interest but also to the portion of the floors immediately above and below the unprotected, combustible concealed space, unless the adjacent area is separated by fire-rated construction. If the fire-rated assembly itself creates an unprotected, combustible concealed space, the adjacent portions of the building are still required to apply a 3000 ft2 (280 m2) area of operation.

Reply
Todd E Wyatt
3/23/2023 09:34:53 am

Determining the fire-resistance rating (FRR) of a tested assembly or individual components such as gypsum board should be based on the adopted Code (e.g. 2021 IBC). The FRR “of building elements, components or assemblies“ are determined by 703.2.1 Tested Assemblies or 703.2.2 Analytical Methods “without the use of automatic sprinklers or any other fire suppression system” or by 703.2.3 Approved Alternate Method.

Based on your statement (I’m guessing that the top with tongue and groove sheeting and 1” of gypsum would also provide at least a 30 minute barrier.), you’d need to review “Section 722 Calculated Fire Resistance” to determine its FRR.

If you want to let a testing agency (e.g. UL) determine the FRR, review “Fire-resistance Ratings - ANSI/UL 263”. This includes a NUMBERING SYSTEM FOR FIRE-RATED ASSEMBLIES based on the TYPES OF PROTECTION.

UL 263 includes “Groups of Construction” such as “Floors-Ceilings”
A or B - Concrete and Cellular Steel Floor
C - Glazing Systems
D, E or F - Concrete and Steel Floor Units
G or H - Concrete and Steel Joists
I Protective Membranes or Ceiling Membranes
J or K Concrete
L or M - Wood Joist or Combination Wood and Steel Assemblies

This condition would be “L or M - Wood Joist or Combination Wood and Steel Assemblies” with a “Membrane Protection” of “500-599 Gypsum Board”. “L5##” would be comparable assemblies.

Reply
Todd E Wyatt
3/23/2023 09:35:33 am

REFERENCES

2021 IBC
Chapter 7 Fire and Smoke Protection Features
User note:
About this chapter: Chapter 7 provides detailed requirements for fire-resistance-rated construction, including structural members, walls, partitions and horizontal assemblies. Other portions of the code describe where certain fire-resistance-rated elements are required. This chapter specifies how these elements are constructed, how openings in walls and partitions are protected and how penetrations of such elements are protected.
Section 701 General
701.1 Scope
The provisions of this chapter shall govern the materials, systems and assemblies used for structural fire resistance and fire-resistance-rated construction separation of adjacent spaces to safeguard against the spread of fire and smoke within a building and the spread of fire to or from buildings.

Section 722 Calculated Fire Resistance
722.1 General
The provisions of this section contain procedures by which the fire resistance of specific materials or combinations of materials is established by calculations. These procedures apply only to the information contained in this section and shall not be otherwise used. The calculated fire resistance of specific materials or combinations of materials shall be established by one of the following:
1. Concrete, concrete masonry and clay masonry assemblies shall be permitted in accordance with ACI 216.1/TMS 0216.
2. Precast and precast, prestressed concrete assemblies shall be permitted in accordance with PCI 124.
3. Steel assemblies shall be permitted in accordance with Chapter 5 of ASCE 29.
4. Exposed wood members and wood decking shall be permitted in accordance with Chapter 16 of ANSI/AWC NDS.

722.6 Wood Assemblies
The provisions of this section contain procedures by which the fire-resistance ratings of wood assemblies are established by calculations.
722.6.1 General
This section contains procedures for calculating the fire-resistance ratings of walls, floor/ceiling and roof/ceiling assemblies based in part on the standard method of testing referenced in Section 703.2.
722.6.1.1 Maximum Fire-Resistance Rating
Fire-resistance ratings calculated for assemblies using the methods in Section 722.6 shall be limited to not more than 1 hour.
722.6.1.2 Dissimilar Membranes
Where dissimilar membranes are used on a wall assembly that requires consideration of fire exposure from both sides, the calculation shall be made from the least fire-resistant (weaker) side.
722.6.2 Walls, Floors and Roofs
These procedures apply to both load-bearing and nonload-bearing assemblies.

TABLE 722.6.2(1) TIME ASSIGNED TO WALLBOARD MEMBRANES
DESCRIPTION OF FINISH TIME (minutes)
3/8-inch wood structural panel bonded with exterior glue 5
15/32-inch wood structural panel bonded with exterior glue 10
19/32-inch wood structural panel bonded with exterior glue 15
3/8-inch gypsum wallboard 10
1/2-inch gypsum wallboard 15
5/8-inch gypsum wallboard 30
1/2-inch Type X gypsum wallboard 25
5/8-inch Type X gypsum wallboard 40
Double 3/8-inch gypsum wallboard 25
1/2-inch + 3/8-inch gypsum wallboard 35
Double 1/2-inch gypsum wallboard 40
a. These values apply only where membranes are installed on framing members that are spaced 16 inches o.c. or less.
b. Gypsum wallboard installed over framing or furring shall be installed so that all edges are supported, except 5/8-inch Type X gypsum wallboard shall be permitted to be installed horizontally with the horizontal joints staggered 24 inches each side and unsupported but finished.
c. On wood frame floor/ceiling or roof/ceiling assemblies, gypsum board shall be installed with the long dimension perpendicular to framing members and shall have all joints finished.
d. The membrane on the unexposed side shall not be included in determining the fire resistance of the assembly. Where dissimilar membranes are used on a wall assembly, the calculation shall be made from the least fire-resistant (weaker) side.
e. The time assigned is not a finished rating.

Reply
Eric R
3/23/2023 09:44:15 am

This can be tricky as it can go either way really. My default answer would be that both areas above and below should have the extended design area based on A.19.3.1.2.1 that Dan posted above.

Now you could work around this by documenting that the membrane sections of the rated assembly both above and below meet the 30 minute provision, but remember that a rating is not defined simply by the thickness of the gypsum. The fastener arrangements, offsetting of joints, and any through penetrations of that membrane would all need to be considered. It can be done, but taking on the responsibility to make sure that it's designed properly when it goes beyond a simple UL diagram is not something I would want to take on if I'm simply providing sprinkler design services.

I think it stinks that the arrangement that allows you to exclude sprinklers, and the arrangement to exclude sprinklers and not increase the design area aren't correlated (even though it may be backed up by good reasoning). Trying to explain to an architect that a certain framing arrangement allows me to exempt sprinklers, but then saying they can't use it without adding in the extra gypsum layer ever couple joists or my flow rate suddenly doubles is always a battle.

Tell the architect to fill the TJI bays with insulation. At least that's always how this problem ends up being resolved when I have to deal with it.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​May 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A1171
    Aba
    Ada
    Asce-7
    Asme-a171
    Astm-e1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design-documents
    En-12845
    Explosion-protection-prevention
    Fire-detection-and-alarm-systems
    Fire-dynamics
    Flammable-combustible-liquids
    Fm-global
    Human-behavior
    IBC
    Icc500
    IFC
    Imc
    Ipc
    Irc
    Iso
    Means Of Egress
    Nbc
    Nfpa-1
    Nfpa-10
    NFPA 101
    Nfpa-101
    Nfpa-11
    Nfpa-110
    Nfpa-1142
    Nfpa-1221
    NFPA 13
    Nfpa-13
    NFPA 13D
    Nfpa-13r
    NFPA 14
    Nfpa-15
    Nfpa-16
    Nfpa-17a
    Nfpa-20
    Nfpa-2001
    Nfpa-214
    Nfpa 22
    Nfpa-220
    Nfpa 24
    Nfpa-241
    Nfpa-25
    Nfpa-25
    Nfpa-291
    Nfpa-291
    Nfpa-30
    Nfpa-30b
    Nfpa-33
    Nfpa-400
    Nfpa-409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    UPC
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    June 2023
    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is a NICET Recognized Training Provider and International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT