Any Way to Control What Contacts CPVC Pipe?

4/12/2022

CPVC has compatibility issues with various sealants.

As an architect, I can specify, review submittals, and keep an eye open during site visits, but there's a lot to keep track of. That goes for our engineers, who frequently cross-specify products. Throwing "compatibility" language in the spec is ultimately lazy, lame, and functionally unenforceable.

Does the sprinkler industry have a way to control what comes in contact with CPVC?

Is there a better way to prevent other products from being in contact with the pipe (ie: actual adherence)?

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13 Comments

Pete H

4/12/2022 06:45:28 am

You could request a specific brand in the specs (i.e. blazemaster) and then additionally add "Viking blazemaster solvent cement only" . And then make sure that the contract is awarded as plans and specs and not design build or code coverage equivalent.

But that's really it. We can't control other trades and the site in general, so short of making the sprinkler contractor adhere to the brand you specifically want, I can't think of a way to protect the pipe from coming into contact with anything and everything unforeseen.

Alex

4/12/2022 07:09:44 am

Hi,

I would agree with Pete. In the end, if the system fails its on the contractor but lets be honest, the building owner will blame everyone involved. For that reason, I would specify a system you know works and you've used in the past, and stick to your guns.

Alex

M.Newell

4/12/2022 08:06:55 am

If you are able to specify and enforce. You could state in your specifications that the pipe needs to be insulated that way the coax or ethernet cable wouldn’t directly impact the CPVC system which is common for failures. This could be the responsibility of the general contractor or the installing fire protection contractor but would be a good safeguard for keeping things off of the sprinkler piping.

Glenn Berger

4/12/2022 08:08:39 am

This is where a good field quality control staff earns their keep.

Chris Logan link

4/12/2022 08:24:42 am

Nothing that will hold up in court! Post notice with the GC regarding compatibility issues, and notify the general contractor or consultant of any compatibility issues on site that occur

Darren

4/12/2022 08:34:27 am

I have found the best course is multiple paths. Use the coordination meetings as a forum to remind ALL trades of the importance of being aware of ALL CPVC piping products on the project (its often not just fire sprinkler piping). Specify a single fire caulk that is a known compatible product, for all trades. And finally, use the site walks through out the project to identify possible issues.

Dan Wilder

4/12/2022 08:46:54 am

Unfortunately no. If you are spec'ing the use of CPVC, the language for both Blazemaster and Spears are easily pulled from the website for handling & installation. Both of their tech support dept are very helpful as well, reach out to them.

In my experience, CPVC is more about liability mitigation than actual installer issues. We send a notice to the GC, post notices around the jobsite for other trades, give notice to the pipe fab company about their steel pipe (when used) will be in contact with CPVC and receive a reply that they did not use anything incompatible (at the time of fabrication). We also print off the compatibility list at the time of the project to have record of what was/wasn't allowed (this also gets sent to the GC for record)

It is pretty simple to see when a telecom tech uses our CPVC pipe to pull his CAT5 cables across, when the spray foam application comes in contact with the pipe, or when the painter oversprays things. We document with lots of install pictures and note dates & conditions and if we find issues, provide a quote for replacement. It's not always accepted but its documented for later.

Jesse

4/12/2022 09:13:30 am

I'm pretty hyper-sensitive to this. We had a very large hotel project where we had to rip out a lot of CPVC due the GC not going with my direction. In TX, state law gives someone with my license overall responsibility for automatic sprinkler. I typically have my designers specify on AS drawings where we're using CPVC to indicate that only compatible materials be used in applications where it contacts CPVC, etc. In the last case, it was wall texture compound that contained an elastomer that was incompatible. Of course the GC wanted to clean it as opposed to replace pipe, but I wouldn't sign off on it.

I agree with what everyone has said on this. I don't know if there is an easy answer. But the bottom line is, we need the AS system to operate correctly when we need it.

Pete D.

4/12/2022 09:35:17 am

It's worth mentioning, most CPVC systems in commercial applications transition from steel systems. Example is a hotel with steel class 1 standpipe combines systems that transition to Cpvc downstream of the floor control assembly. In this application, and it is often overlooked, the steel components upstream of the cpvc must be fabricated using cpvc-compatible cutting oil. The job goes to bid showing standpipe and overhead systems, without specifying how to accomplish that. It's a reasonable inference that the winning bidder will install combined systems, and cpvc-compatible fabrication should be included in the steel pipe specs.

Dave

4/12/2022 11:12:43 am

Unfortunately the responsibility is placed upon the manufacturer of components to submit them for CPVC compatibility testing, and the CPVC manufacturer will not back-up results from another CPVC manufacturer. Some incompatibility issues are universal, oils, oil-based paint, cable insulation, insecticides, some cutting oils. I have found others tough, like some insulation, Visqueen etc.

Here's Blazemaster's December 2021 hour-long webinar on compatibility. Despite being weighted with a Blazemaster bias, it is very excellent information.
https://youtu.be/VUvQegqPDtM

https://www.blazemaster.com/en-us/fbc-system-compatible-program

Scott McBride

4/13/2022 11:07:32 am

Well this starts with the designers as mentioned above. Then the reviewer, who has the responsibility to make sure that any materials that come in contact with the CPVC pipe is compatible by getting the data sheets for those products and checking the manufacturers compatibility list. Then it is the responsibility of the installing contractor to make sure that they are installing the approved items and not substituting without prior approval. Then it is the responsibility of the inspector to verify during the inspection that the products used match what was approved in the review. But ultimately it is the GCs responsibility to ensure that his contractors are using the materials that have been approved prior to the closing of the walls.

Lainey link

4/20/2022 10:27:14 am

This is an excellent question. I think the key is education on and awareness of CPVC and compatibility for ALL trades on the jobsite as well as the building owner.

In terms of training, all CPVC manufacturers offer in-person trainings. BlazeMaster additionally offers online and virtual trainings, which can be found here: https://www.blazemaster.com/en-us/training.

Additionally, CPVC manufacturers offer Jobsite Notices that can/should be printed and posted around high-traffic areas of a job site to help spread awareness. There's also turn over letters that inform the owner about properly caring for a CPVC system. These docs can be downloaded on BlazeMaster, JCI, Viking, Spears, and Reliable websites.

CPVC manufacturers also have their own "programs" that define what ancillary products are compatible and incompatible with their brand of CPVC. Lubrizol BlazeMaster's is found at www.fbcsystemcompatible.com. Spears has some guidance at www.spearsmfg.com. We at Lubrizol recommend that trades choose to use the products that are part of our Compatibility program as there will be absolutely no question as to whether they are compatible with BlazeMaster.

As someone mentioned above, specifying a specific brand brand of CPVC for the entire system and specifying specific ancillary products that are compatible with that brand (i.e. are part of its compatibility program) and not allowing substitutions is a pretty good way to nip compatibility issues in the bud.

The BlazeMaster team would be more than willing to discuss this topic with you in detail and/or provide support and training. If you'd like to reach out, you can send an e-mail to [email protected] and mention my name to connect with me.

Dereck K. link

8/6/2024 03:47:19 pm

Very late reply, but figured this can be useful for anybody else stumbling upon this post in the future.

To keep CPVC pipes safe from compatibility issues, start by clearly specifying the approved materials in your project documents. This means listing exactly which sealants and other products can be used with CPVC and making sure these choices follow the manufacturer's guidelines. Design the system with physical barriers or separation methods to keep incompatible substances away from the pipes.

During installation, make sure the team is trained and that there are regular checks to ensure only approved products are used. All materials should be properly labeled and documented. Good communication among architects, engineers, and contractors is key to making sure everyone follows the compatibility rules. Regularly updating your practices based on industry standards will help keep everything in line.

Any Way to Control What Contacts CPVC Pipe?

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