Advice for NICET IV Water-Based Systems Exam?

4/29/2019

I am currently trying to put together a study outline for the NICET Level IV exam for Water-Based Systems Layout.

Does anyone have any advice or experience with studying for this exam? Also any advice or feedback concerning the major project write-up?

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19 Comments

Bruce Seiler

4/29/2019 10:49:36 am

I have not found a great study guide for this test. There is so much information contained on the test that multiple sources are required to gain enough information in the different areas. Many of the scenarios are only learned through project experience. Understanding the entirety of hydraulic calculations and the effects of changes on the system is key, but that goes without saying as that is a major aspect of sprinkler design. The best study material would be to review drawings and calculations from another technician as much of the material comes from that point of view. The Project Management and Estimating items are pretty straight forward if you under stand job cost, labor projections, scheduling, contracts and similar. As for the major project write-up, you'll want to include as many different systems as possible to show you have experience with more than just a standard wet system. If one project doesn't involve multiple systems, multiple projects should be utilized. Detail is the key for this write-up.

Dennis Randolph

4/29/2019 11:12:41 am

I have been curious about this myself. I recently took the level III tests, and used the Firetech course to brush up. It was spectacular! However there is not a course offered for level IV. If you develop something, let us know! I am sure more than a few of us would pay for such a service!

Mike

4/29/2019 11:22:03 am

Dennis, did you find this course to be responsible for passing? Would you have passed without it? I have already passed Level I and Level III Hydraulics. Just wondering if I should buy the course.

Dennis Randolph

4/29/2019 01:20:25 pm

If you already passed Level III hydraulics, you should be able to pass Level III General Plans.

I can't say for sure it was responsible for me passing, but I took the course and passed. The course does a pretty good job of delving into the obscure niche's within the book, and gets you used to finding things you don't normally look for.

Mike

4/29/2019 11:20:18 am

I've already taken Level IV and failed by a few questions - 455 pts. and needed 500. Very obscure questions. My advice would be to take it and gamble on it and expect to take it twice.

Johnathan A

4/29/2019 11:40:47 am

I took it and failed it, by probably 1 or 2 questions. I dont really know how knowing the number of voting members in NFPA affect how good of a WBS Engineer I am but it is what it is.
You should really know your NFPA 13, 14, 20 and 25 make sure your books are tagged for quick references.

Dennis Randolph

4/29/2019 01:21:10 pm

Was that really one of the questions? If so, that is crazy!!!

PETE

4/29/2019 01:00:57 pm

The only people I know who have attained level IV got it before there was a testing requirement. This is a left-field answer but, get the CFPS certification instead. What does Level IV get you ?? A pat on the back? I say this as a guy who got a Level III cert and became a PE 6 months later. I'm not particularly happy with the way NICET does business. I'm not convinced that their methods even accurately test for competency. So, why empower them with more business?

Dennis Randolph

4/29/2019 01:26:00 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but you need a college degree to become a P.E. correct?

I am 44 years old, and have worked for the company i am with for 18+ years, full time. I started out at the bottom, and worked my way up. I spent over a decade in the field installing, servicing, maintaining, etc. I have been our sole designer for the last five years. For someone like me, who does not have the time to attend college full time, NICET certification is the only other option. Plus, most AHJ's in my area require it now, for submitted drawings.

With all that being said, I agree with your other statements.

PETE

4/29/2019 03:04:05 pm

Thanks for the reply Dennis. To answer your question about the degree: it depends on the state. I was advocating for the NFPA Certified Fire Protection Specialist.
https://www.nfpa.org/Training-and-Events/By-type/Certifications/Certified-Fire-Protection-Specialist/How-to-become-certified

It requires 6 years TOJ, and a high school diploma. I look on it as a higher level credential than the NICET 4.

4/30/2019 10:21:04 am

NICET is only for the money. No one there can answer any questions, they will have someone get back with you.....Maybe.... All their tests do is show that someone can look up answers in the code books in the time frame allowed. Not what someone actually knows. If you can do that, you pass. If not, please try again and don't forget to send us your check as we really need it!

PETE

4/30/2019 11:00:26 am

RJ. I am of a similar mindset, although I am trying to be careful not to form an opinion based on suppositions. I have a few problems.
One is with the organization of the discipline- the engineering has been abdicated to the contractors. This was done so that competent people who have been in the sprinkler business since the advent of the trade (many of them blue collar guys & gals) could continue to design their own shop drawings without an engineer's approval. You can see this evidenced in the NFSA representation on the NFPA committees. There is a commercial component to the codes. NICET is supposed to verify the level of competence, and I wonder if the approach works.I am taking a webinar next month put on by NICET, called 'developing a competent workforce'. I want to be sure to get both sides of the story; I'm still gathering information.
One adverse effect of taking the reigns out of the hands of engineers is that it has eroded the FP engineering discipline. As far as I can tell, people in the engineering community are either misinformed as to what FP engineers do, or because of the protection from exposure created by the contractors being responsible for their own fire protection designs, they feel content to hijack the FPE designation, but only in so much as it pertains to the designation of storage strategies or occupancy classifications. While that may account for 70% of the FP engineering work, it only accounts for say ~5% of the knowledge a FP engineer needs to possess. Why does it matter? 1) In certain situations the codified protection strategies will not sufficiently protect life or property, and without the theoretical knowledge that is the basis for the intent of the code one would be none the wiser about the insufficiency of the code. 2) A FPE almost has to adopt a secondary discipline to become employed by an A&E multidisciplinary firm. This depends on how they're organized, or course, but for the most part when these firms look for an FPE (almost a billet more than an engineering discipline) they're looking for someone to seal Occupancy Classification designations. Often times its an engineer from another discipline who takes on the FPE designation, leading to the screwball FP drawings that almost every designer has grown accustomed to seeing.
The other indication I had that NICET is perhaps not fulfilling its function: when I've spoken to the evaluation processors, one of them told me she has a continuous backlog of 500+ applications in the hopper. This is $ received for services that have not been rendered. The website is dysfunctional, and they insist on pen & paper snail mail correspondence. The tell applications that it may be 120 days to process their applications, and all the while people's career qualifications/advancement is put on hold.

I am self-nominating for the NICET Board of Governors when the next vacancy announcement comes out. I would like to see a web-based verification system put in place, something like NCEES has.

Dennis Randolph

4/29/2019 03:17:09 pm

I had considered taking the CFPS test in the past, but have not done it yet. I did however take the newer CWBSP (certified water based systems professional) test, and passed it. It was pretty well in line with the Level III test.

Carlo

5/7/2019 06:12:42 pm

I am considering pursuing an Fire protection degree from Eastern Kentucky university is it worth it over getting nicet certified?

PETE

5/7/2019 06:36:00 pm

I find engineering work more rewarding than design work, persoanally. If you want to set up shop as a sprinkler contractor I would get the degree and the PE.
The contracts are where the $ is at as far as I can tell. I've always done engineering work as an in-road to contract sales, i.e. design-build contracts.

Joe Meyer can probably weigh in on this question better than I can.

Joe Meyer

7/8/2019 05:05:20 pm

Hi Carlo - I think many people would say that the PE designation can be a major career boost in a handful of ways. For one, your employment opportunities very quickly broaden into a handful of different applications and industries, plus the responsibility can grow as well (in a good way).

Licensed Fire Protection Engineers generally have great career prospects, are in very high demand, and have great pay and benefits. If pursuing the engineering degree is of interest to you and you're willing to put in the work to complete it, then I would highly encourage you to pursue it.

That's not to say that a PE is better or more knowledgeable than a NICET certified professional, that's a good debate for another day. The PE is supposed to understand much more than only suppression, or only alarm - they need to see the big picture within fire protection and make informed decisions based on sound practice and engineering fundamentals.

If you go the engineering route, you can always also pursue NICET. The two aren't mutually exclusive as long as you pursue the engineering degree.

Does this help at all? Great question.

Max

11/10/2019 10:52:14 am

I took the new CBT for level IV water-based 9 November 2019 and felt it was a fair and tough exam. The content outline was accurate. They will ask questions that only people with 10+ years experience will know. I think there is just under 4 minutes for each question and the challenge for me was to stay focused through 4.5 hours of testing. The questions were dense and required understanding of the intent and context of the requirement.

I would suggest reviewing the materials for level III and the associated suggested references provided by nicet for the content outline.

Joe Smith

3/3/2023 12:51:01 pm

I HAVE BEEN IN THE INDUSTRY FOR 14 YEARS LAST YEAR I DECIDED TO TO GO FOR LEVEL 3 I PASSED BOTH EXAMS THE FIRST TIME OUT WITHOUT STUDYING AT ALL. I PUT OFF LEVEL 3 FOR FEAR OF THE CALCULATIONS EXAM BECAUSE I FEEL I AM NOT STRONG AT MATH. I CAN TELL YOU THAT HAND CALCS AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE ONLY THERE TO INTIMIDATE YOU. ONLY 10-15% OF BOTH LEVEL 3 AND 4 EXAMS HAD TO DO WITH ACTUAL CALCULATIONS. I PASSED LEVEL 4 LAST WEEKEND FIRST TIME NO STUDYING. NOW GRANTED DUE TO HAVING EXPOSURE OF 14 YEARS IN THE INDUSTRY I WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE INTENT OF THE QUESTIONS PROBABLY SLIGHTLY QUICKER THAT SOMEONE WHO ONLY HAS 5 YEARS. PEOPLE WHO PASS THE 3 WITH ONLY 5 YEARS UNDER THIER BELTS DESERVE TO BE RECOGNIZED, BECAUSE THE TESTS ARE SUPER HARD. I CAN TELL YOU THIS, HAVING A STRATEGY HEADING INTO THE EXAMS ARE VERY IMPORTANT, TAKE THE CALCULATOR TUTORIALS ONLINE, KNOW HOE TO USE THIER CALCULATOR, PRACTICE WITH IT, USE A CALCULATOR YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH TO SOLVE A HAZEN WILLIAMS FORMULA QUESTION, THEN USE THIERS, MAKE SURE YOUR ANSWERS MATCH, TRUST ME THEY PUT THE COMMON WRONG ANSWERS THIER NEXT TO CORRECT ONES. THESE TEST ARE DESIGNED TO TEST YOUR RAW INTELLIGENCE, KNOWLEDGE OF INDUSRTY, APPTITUDE, ALONG WITH MENTAL CAPACITY, THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE INTIMIDATING, CUNNING, AND BAFFLING. DO NOT LET THEM PHYSC YOU OUT. I SUGGEST READING THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS BEFORE READING THE QUESTIONS THEMSELVES. THIS WILL CLUE YOU IN ON WHAT EXACTLY THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. REMEMBER THESE TESTS TRY TO INTENTIONALLY PUT EXTRA OR UNEEDED INFO IN THE QUESTIONS TO THROW YOU OFF. YOU CAN GAIN THE ADVANTAGE OF DISCARDING THAT UN-NEEDED INFO IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE ANSWERS ARE SOMEWHAT LOOKING FOR. GO THRU THE ENTIRE EXAM QUICKLY FIRST, FLAG THE LONG QUESTIONS THAT YOU KNOW WILL TAKE LONGER THAN 5 MINUTES TO ANSWER, I SAVE THE LONG ONES UNTIL LAST, A PASSING SCORE IS A 500 SO THATS ABOUT 70% SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU GET 7 OUT OF EVERY 10 CORRECT IF YOU ARE WASTING TOO MUCH TIME ON HARD QUESTIONS YOUR LEAVING OPPORTUNITY FOR OTHER POINTS ON THE TABLE. I SUGGEST GO THRU, ANSWER THE ONES YOU THINK YOU CAN FIND QUICKLY OR THOSE OF WHICH YOU ARE STRONGER IN THAT CATEGORY WITH. KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE NFPA 13 STORAGE CHAPTERS QUICLY, KNOW THE NFPA 14 AND NFPA 20 CHAPTERS. MANY QUESTIONS ARE STORAGE RELATED, HYDRAULICALLY RELATED, STANDPIPE RELATED, AND FIREPUMP RELATED. IF YOU CONCENTRATE HERE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PASS THE EXAM. NOW MY LAST ADVICE, NO ONE EXCEPT ISAAC NEWTON HIMSELF HAS ENOUGH TIME TO ANSWER EVERY QUESTION ON THE EXAM, YOU WILL RUN SHORT OF TIME, THE TEST IS DESIGNED THAT WAY, DO NOT LET THE CLOSK BEAT YOU, GET AS MANY AS YOU CAN RIGHT, THEN WHAT EVER TIME IS LEFT PICK THE ONES YOUR MORE CONFIDENT WITH, I HAD 8 QUESTIONS LEFT FLAGGED WITH 2 MINUTES ON THE CLOCK, I PICKED B FOR ALL 8 RATHER THAN PICKING DIFFERENT LETTERS AND CHOOSING RANDOM ANSWERS. I ALSO HAVE A LEVEL 4 NICET STUDY GUIDE ME AND MY COLLEGUES HAVE PUT TOGETHER, MY REAL NAME ISNT JOE SMITH EITHER, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF PER THE NICET CODE OF ETHICS LOL

Bobby

2/21/2024 06:31:09 pm

Is NICET 4 required if I wanted to open my own fire sprinkler design, LLC?

Advice for NICET IV Water-Based Systems Exam?

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