MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • About
    • Catalog
    • Content Library
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Advice for NICET IV Water-Based Systems Exam?

4/29/2019

17 Comments

 
I am currently trying to put together a study outline for the NICET Level IV exam for Water-Based Systems Layout.

Does anyone have any advice or experience with studying for this exam? Also any advice or feedback concerning the major project write-up?

Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit a Question | Subscribe
17 Comments
Bruce Seiler
4/29/2019 10:49:36 am

I have not found a great study guide for this test. There is so much information contained on the test that multiple sources are required to gain enough information in the different areas. Many of the scenarios are only learned through project experience. Understanding the entirety of hydraulic calculations and the effects of changes on the system is key, but that goes without saying as that is a major aspect of sprinkler design. The best study material would be to review drawings and calculations from another technician as much of the material comes from that point of view. The Project Management and Estimating items are pretty straight forward if you under stand job cost, labor projections, scheduling, contracts and similar. As for the major project write-up, you'll want to include as many different systems as possible to show you have experience with more than just a standard wet system. If one project doesn't involve multiple systems, multiple projects should be utilized. Detail is the key for this write-up.

Reply
Dennis Randolph
4/29/2019 11:12:41 am

I have been curious about this myself. I recently took the level III tests, and used the Firetech course to brush up. It was spectacular! However there is not a course offered for level IV. If you develop something, let us know! I am sure more than a few of us would pay for such a service!

Reply
Mike
4/29/2019 11:22:03 am

Dennis, did you find this course to be responsible for passing? Would you have passed without it? I have already passed Level I and Level III Hydraulics. Just wondering if I should buy the course.

Reply
Dennis Randolph
4/29/2019 01:20:25 pm

If you already passed Level III hydraulics, you should be able to pass Level III General Plans.

I can't say for sure it was responsible for me passing, but I took the course and passed. The course does a pretty good job of delving into the obscure niche's within the book, and gets you used to finding things you don't normally look for.

Mike
4/29/2019 11:20:18 am

I've already taken Level IV and failed by a few questions - 455 pts. and needed 500. Very obscure questions. My advice would be to take it and gamble on it and expect to take it twice.

Reply
Johnathan A
4/29/2019 11:40:47 am

I took it and failed it, by probably 1 or 2 questions. I dont really know how knowing the number of voting members in NFPA affect how good of a WBS Engineer I am but it is what it is.
You should really know your NFPA 13, 14, 20 and 25 make sure your books are tagged for quick references.

Reply
Dennis Randolph
4/29/2019 01:21:10 pm

Was that really one of the questions? If so, that is crazy!!!

Reply
PETE
4/29/2019 01:00:57 pm

The only people I know who have attained level IV got it before there was a testing requirement. This is a left-field answer but, get the CFPS certification instead. What does Level IV get you ?? A pat on the back? I say this as a guy who got a Level III cert and became a PE 6 months later. I'm not particularly happy with the way NICET does business. I'm not convinced that their methods even accurately test for competency. So, why empower them with more business?

Reply
Dennis Randolph
4/29/2019 01:26:00 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but you need a college degree to become a P.E. correct?

I am 44 years old, and have worked for the company i am with for 18+ years, full time. I started out at the bottom, and worked my way up. I spent over a decade in the field installing, servicing, maintaining, etc. I have been our sole designer for the last five years. For someone like me, who does not have the time to attend college full time, NICET certification is the only other option. Plus, most AHJ's in my area require it now, for submitted drawings.

With all that being said, I agree with your other statements.

Reply
PETE
4/29/2019 03:04:05 pm

Thanks for the reply Dennis. To answer your question about the degree: it depends on the state. I was advocating for the NFPA Certified Fire Protection Specialist.
https://www.nfpa.org/Training-and-Events/By-type/Certifications/Certified-Fire-Protection-Specialist/How-to-become-certified

It requires 6 years TOJ, and a high school diploma. I look on it as a higher level credential than the NICET 4.

RJ
4/30/2019 10:21:04 am

NICET is only for the money. No one there can answer any questions, they will have someone get back with you.....Maybe.... All their tests do is show that someone can look up answers in the code books in the time frame allowed. Not what someone actually knows. If you can do that, you pass. If not, please try again and don't forget to send us your check as we really need it!

Reply
PETE
4/30/2019 11:00:26 am

RJ. I am of a similar mindset, although I am trying to be careful not to form an opinion based on suppositions. I have a few problems.
One is with the organization of the discipline- the engineering has been abdicated to the contractors. This was done so that competent people who have been in the sprinkler business since the advent of the trade (many of them blue collar guys & gals) could continue to design their own shop drawings without an engineer's approval. You can see this evidenced in the NFSA representation on the NFPA committees. There is a commercial component to the codes. NICET is supposed to verify the level of competence, and I wonder if the approach works.I am taking a webinar next month put on by NICET, called 'developing a competent workforce'. I want to be sure to get both sides of the story; I'm still gathering information.
One adverse effect of taking the reigns out of the hands of engineers is that it has eroded the FP engineering discipline. As far as I can tell, people in the engineering community are either misinformed as to what FP engineers do, or because of the protection from exposure created by the contractors being responsible for their own fire protection designs, they feel content to hijack the FPE designation, but only in so much as it pertains to the designation of storage strategies or occupancy classifications. While that may account for 70% of the FP engineering work, it only accounts for say ~5% of the knowledge a FP engineer needs to possess. Why does it matter? 1) In certain situations the codified protection strategies will not sufficiently protect life or property, and without the theoretical knowledge that is the basis for the intent of the code one would be none the wiser about the insufficiency of the code. 2) A FPE almost has to adopt a secondary discipline to become employed by an A&E multidisciplinary firm. This depends on how they're organized, or course, but for the most part when these firms look for an FPE (almost a billet more than an engineering discipline) they're looking for someone to seal Occupancy Classification designations. Often times its an engineer from another discipline who takes on the FPE designation, leading to the screwball FP drawings that almost every designer has grown accustomed to seeing.
The other indication I had that NICET is perhaps not fulfilling its function: when I've spoken to the evaluation processors, one of them told me she has a continuous backlog of 500+ applications in the hopper. This is $ received for services that have not been rendered. The website is dysfunctional, and they insist on pen & paper snail mail correspondence. The tell applications that it may be 120 days to process their applications, and all the while people's career qualifications/advancement is put on hold.

I am self-nominating for the NICET Board of Governors when the next vacancy announcement comes out. I would like to see a web-based verification system put in place, something like NCEES has.

Dennis Randolph
4/29/2019 03:17:09 pm

I had considered taking the CFPS test in the past, but have not done it yet. I did however take the newer CWBSP (certified water based systems professional) test, and passed it. It was pretty well in line with the Level III test.

Reply
Carlo
5/7/2019 06:12:42 pm

I am considering pursuing an Fire protection degree from Eastern Kentucky university is it worth it over getting nicet certified?

Reply
PETE
5/7/2019 06:36:00 pm

I find engineering work more rewarding than design work, persoanally. If you want to set up shop as a sprinkler contractor I would get the degree and the PE.
The contracts are where the $ is at as far as I can tell. I've always done engineering work as an in-road to contract sales, i.e. design-build contracts.

Joe Meyer can probably weigh in on this question better than I can.

Reply
Joe Meyer
7/8/2019 05:05:20 pm

Hi Carlo - I think many people would say that the PE designation can be a major career boost in a handful of ways. For one, your employment opportunities very quickly broaden into a handful of different applications and industries, plus the responsibility can grow as well (in a good way).

Licensed Fire Protection Engineers generally have great career prospects, are in very high demand, and have great pay and benefits. If pursuing the engineering degree is of interest to you and you're willing to put in the work to complete it, then I would highly encourage you to pursue it.

That's not to say that a PE is better or more knowledgeable than a NICET certified professional, that's a good debate for another day. The PE is supposed to understand much more than only suppression, or only alarm - they need to see the big picture within fire protection and make informed decisions based on sound practice and engineering fundamentals.

If you go the engineering route, you can always also pursue NICET. The two aren't mutually exclusive as long as you pursue the engineering degree.

Does this help at all? Great question.

Max
11/10/2019 10:52:14 am

I took the new CBT for level IV water-based 9 November 2019 and felt it was a fair and tough exam. The content outline was accurate. They will ask questions that only people with 10+ years experience will know. I think there is just under 4 minutes for each question and the challenge for me was to stay focused through 4.5 hours of testing. The questions were dense and required understanding of the intent and context of the requirement.

I would suggest reviewing the materials for level III and the associated suggested references provided by nicet for the content outline.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​May '22 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A117.1
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    ICC-500
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NICET
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is an International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2022 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • About
    • Catalog
    • Content Library
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • THE CAUSE
    • ABOUT US
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT